How the Pre-Trib Rapture Became Popular in the Modern Church

[Charlie24]

i SEE Brother - i also see that you and all the others before you never could find a single pre-trib verse.

The only person who spoke pre-trib from Scripture is satan and all who believe his lies.

"seeing they see not, hearing they hear not"

Immediately after the tribulation of those days: (you refuse His words = blind by choice)
‘The sun will be darkened,
and the moon will not give its light;
the stars will fall from the sky,
and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.’
At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and all the tribes of the earth will mourn.
They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory. And He will send out His angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather His elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.

Every word of God is flawless;
He is a shield to those who take refuge in Him.
Do not add to His words,
lest He rebuke you and prove you a liar. - Proverbs 30:5-6

Don't you mean, none that you will acknowledge! There are plenty if you will open your eyes to it!

 

[Nehemiah6]

Yeah, I never intended this to become an argument. I was just stating what was true.

True according to whom? Certainly not true according to God and Christ. Now we have one rabid anti-pre-tribulation-rapture fanatic on this thread making wildly false accusations about other Christians, while unable to comprehend plain Bible truths.

 

[lamad]

Paul taught post-trib not pre-trib. He warned against pre-trib when he taught the man of sin had to be revealed before our gathering to Christ. Pre-trib teaches there is a rapture before the revealing of the man of sin, directly against what the Apostle Paul taught.



2 Thessalonians 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2 Thessalonians 2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.


Do not be confused about the return of Christ or OUR gathering to Him (the rapture), that it can happen at any moment because it will NOT happen at any moment. Paul is speaking about the Church and when Christ comes for her.

The doctrine of the pre-trib rapture states that Christ can secretly return at "any moment" yet Paul is clear to rebuke that doctrine saying not to believe anyone who claims that.


"nor by letter as from us"

Paul mentions even a former letter of his, because of a confusing statement he made concerning Christs return, the very verses that today's pre-tribbers use errantly:



1Th 5:2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.



Paul said it was misunderstood then, and it is still being misunderstood to this very day. Paul's second letter to the Thessalonians was meant to clear up any confusion which apparently was not successful.




2 Thessalonians 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

Don't let anyone, even a fellow Christian deceive you otherwise! Christ's return SHALL NOT COME until the Apostasy happens FIRST. The Apostasy is when Christians stop worshiping Christ and start worshiping the antichrist. Christ will not return until that terrible thing happens, and not until the man of sin is revealed.

This is a classic case of reading into a verse what is not there:

"Paul taught post-trib not pre-trib. He warned against pre-trib when he taught the man of sin had to be revealed before our gathering to Christ. "

In His first letter, He taught that the resurrection / catching up would come before the Day of the Lord and just before wrath. In His second letter, He said that the departing must come FIRST as the restrainer being taken out of the way, and then people would know THE DAY has started.

You are trying to equate THE DAY with the rapture. Every mention of the Day of the Lord in the Old Testament is a dark day of wrath - so it CANNOT be the same day as the rapture.

Study it without preconceived glasses on: the man of sin CANNOT be revealed until the restraining power is removed: "taken out of the way." The departing - of the church as in the rapture - satisfies the restraining force being taken out of the way and satisfies Paul writing "and now you know what is restraining..."

We cannot understand and form theories from 1 Thes. 4 & 5 without considering 2 Thes. 2, nor can we form theories from 2 Thes. 2 without considering 1 Thes. 4 & 5. Both passages must fit the intent of the Author.

Then we cannot form theories from either or both of these passages while ignoring the book of Revelation. If we form a theory from one end time passage, that theory then must fit every other end time passage. Posttrib doctrine fails this test. The ONLY scriptures that may seem to be posttrib really are not. A classic example is the gathering in Matthew 24: the anchor verse for posttrib. No one has ever proven by scripture that a gathering from heaven can fit Paul's rapture which gathers from earth. No one has ever proven by scripture that a gathering after the tribulation of those days fits Paul's rapture that gathers before wrath.

NO PROBLEM, says posttribbers: we'll just move wrath to the end of the week, and while we are at it, move the marriage and supper to later and on the earth.

Christ's return SHALL NOT COME until the Apostasy happens FIRST. What a neat trick! But you are CAUGHT with your slight of hand or in this case, slight of words. It is the DAY OF THE LORD that shall not come. You substituted "Christ's return." You are CAUGHT.

 

[lamad]

This is correct except for one major blunder you said: "(Jesus included) will take part in the CHIEF of all resurrections"

JESUS is the RESURRECTION = HE does not take part = HE is the PART

the LORD is not waiting to take part in the Resurrection = HE is the RESURRECTION on whom we wait to take part in.

and to await His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead—Jesus our deliverer from the coming wrath. 1 Thess 1:10

For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 1 Thess 4:16

His resurrection was called the firstfruits.

1 Corinthians 15:23
But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

By the very definition of "first" it demands there be a second and others to follow.

Jesus was the first human to die and receive a resurrection body. But coming very soon, billions are going to follow and receive their resurrection body.

I stand corrected: Jesus TOOK part in the chief of all resurrections. The Bride of Christ will soon follow.

 

[DavidTree]

His resurrection was called the firstfruits.

1 Corinthians 15:23
But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

By the very definition of "first" it demands there be a second and others to follow.

Jesus was the first human to die and receive a resurrection body. But coming very soon, billions are going to follow and receive their resurrection body.

I stand corrected: Jesus TOOK part in the chief of all resurrections. The Bride of Christ will soon follow.

JESUS is the Firstfruit = the First Resurrection = We(in Christ) are the Firstfruits = We (in Christ) will be part of the First Resurrection

There is no second, third, fourth , fifth.... resurrection of the Saints.

ALL the Dead in Christ are part of JESUS who is the RESURRECTION = The FIRST RESURRECTION.

The Billions/Trillions who are in Christ will be resurrected at His Second Coming.

There is NO third coming of the Lord.

 

[lamad]

JESUS is the Firstfruit = the First Resurrection = We(in Christ) are the Firstfruits = We (in Christ) will be part of the First Resurrection

There is no second, third, fourth , fifth.... resurrection of the Saints.

ALL the Dead in Christ are part of JESUS who is the RESURRECTION = The FIRST RESURRECTION.

The Billions/Trillions who are in Christ will be resurrected at His Second Coming.

There is NO third coming of the Lord.

It is not my fault you don't read properly. The truth is very simple: Paul's rapture/resurrection comes BEFORE wrath (6th seal) but the resurrection of the Old Testament saints is "on the last day. It will be interesting to see how you twist things to make before wrath be "on the last day."

 

[GaryA]

ORDER OF EVENTS

Great Tribulation (ends)
Trumpet 1
Trumpet 2
Trumpet 3
Trumpet 4
Trumpet 5
Trumpet 6
Heaven / Temple Opened
JESUS
Trumpet 7
Resurrection & Rapture
Pre-Wrath
Vial 1
Vial 2
Vial 3
Vial 4
Vial 5
Vial 6
Armageddon
Vial 7

Seal 6 spans from Trumpet 1 to Vial 7.

The 'Wrath of God' is the Vials. (ONLY)

The 'Day of the Lord' begins at 'JESUS'.

The Two Witnesses cause the Trumpet Events. (1-5, at least)

Please see:

http://mywebsite.us/BibleStudy/Order_Of_Events.html

 

[GaryA]

Every mention of the Day of the Lord in the Old Testament is a dark day of wrath - so it CANNOT be the same day as the rapture.

Sure it can.

Your conclusion is based on bad/false assumption.

 

[GaryA]

Where you miss it: the signs at the 6th seal are the signs for the coming Day of the Lord.

Where you miss it: the 'Day of the Lord' begins the moment Jesus returns (Second Coming - here to stay) - and not one microsecond before...

 

[GaryA]

Without a doubt, these signs at the 6th seal are TOTAL ECLIPSES of the sun and moon and are SEEN signs.

There is a lot more to it than that. Look at the Trumpet 4 - one-third of the day (and the night likewise). When have you ever seen an eclipse that will do that?

 

[GaryA]

These signs are about a one-time special "supernatural" occurrence - not a 'common' event like an eclipse.

 

[DavidTree]

We have more scripture for a pre-trib than you have for your theory! Why don't you explain for us Rev. 3:10? Tell us why Christ gave this to John to give to the Church.

"Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth."

Christ did not say i will pre-trib rapture you in Revelation 3:10 or anywhere in Scripture.

What HE said is "I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation," Rev 3:10

The LORD said had already said this BEFORE HE went to the Cross = John ch17

But now I come to You, and these things I speak in the world, that they may have My joy fulfilled in themselves. I have given them Your word; and the world has hated them because they are not of the world, just as I am not of the world.
I do not pray that You should take them out of the world, but that You should keep them from the evil one.
They are not of the world, just as I am not of the world. Sanctify them by Your truth. Your word is truth. As You sent Me into the world, I also have sent them into the world. And for their sakes I sanctify Myself, that they also may be sanctified by the truth.

Now to Him who is able to keep you from stumbling,
And to present you faultless
Before the presence of His glory with exceeding joy,
To God our Savior,
Who alone is wise,
Be glory and majesty,
Dominion and power,
Both now and forever.
Amen.
Jude ch1

 

[GaryA]

there will be MANY events between the 6th seal and His coming to Armageddon

There is no 'between' the 6th seal and Armageddon. The events of the description of the 6th seal occur over a span that runs from Trumpet 1 to Vial 7 - which includes all of the things you see listed in post #3907 from 'Trumpet 1' to 'Vial 7'.

Please note that 'Great Tribulation' is not included...

 

[iTheophilus]

The "falling away" is a departure of the Church before the tribulation begins and then the Second Coming.

The falling away is a departure of the church’s faith. It’s worshiping the first one who claims to be Jesus because they are deceived and don’t know that it’s actually Satan, the antichrist. ….but the whole world, with the exception of those who
have the seal of God (His Word) in their foreheads (Rev. 9:4), will believe that he is the real Jesus Christ and will worship him as God!
That is the great falling away—the Great Apostasy! That's why the pre-tribulation rapture theory is such a dangerous doctrine. It sets people up for the fall—the great falling away.

Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.

- 2 Thessalonians 2:3-4 (NKJV)

 

[DavidTree]

The falling away is a departure of the church’s faith. It’s worshiping the first one who claims to be Jesus because they are deceived and don’t know that it’s actually Satan, the antichrist. ….but the whole world, with the exception of those who
have the seal of God (His Word) in their foreheads (Rev. 9:4), will believe that he is the real Jesus Christ and will worship him as God!
That is the great falling away—the Great Apostasy! That's why the pre-tribulation rapture theory is such a dangerous doctrine. It sets people up for the fall—the great falling away.

Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.

- 2 Thessalonians 2:3-4 (NKJV)

The LORD said this, the Holy Spirit said this and thee Apostle John with Paul said this.

Now the Spirit expressly states that in later times some will depart from the faith to follow deceitful spirits and the teachings of demons, influenced by the hypocrisy of liars, whose consciences are seared with a hot iron.
1 Timothy 4:1

 

[GaryA]

The departing - of the church as in the rapture - satisfies the restraining force being taken out of the way and satisfies Paul writing "and now you know what is restraining..."

~ As does also the 'falling away' (apostasy) which "diminishes" the power of the working of the Holy Spirit in the world.

(You see - the Holy Spirit does not have to actually leave the earth (completely/entirely) - He only need be "pushed aside" by the apostasy - such that He has [far] fewer saints to work in-and-through.)

~ As does also the "diminishing" of the church due to mass beheading of the saints for not worshipping the beast.

--- the "pre-trib rapture of the church" is not the only explanation that "fits"...

 

[Charlie24]

Christ did not say i will pre-trib rapture you in Revelation 3:10 or anywhere in Scripture.

What HE said is "I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation," Rev 3:10

The LORD said had already said this BEFORE HE went to the Cross = John ch17

But now I come to You, and these things I speak in the world, that they may have My joy fulfilled in themselves. I have given them Your word; and the world has hated them because they are not of the world, just as I am not of the world.
I do not pray that You should take them out of the world, but that You should keep them from the evil one.
They are not of the world, just as I am not of the world. Sanctify them by Your truth. Your word is truth. As You sent Me into the world, I also have sent them into the world. And for their sakes I sanctify Myself, that they also may be sanctified by the truth.

Now to Him who is able to keep you from stumbling,
And to present you faultless
Before the presence of His glory with exceeding joy,
To God our Savior,
Who alone is wise,
Be glory and majesty,
Dominion and power,
Both now and forever.
Amen.
Jude ch1

I guess He wasn't speaking the rapture to you! If you so insist I won't leave out the possibility that He will leave those behind so they can have their wish!

 

[Charlie24]

I guess He wasn't speaking the rapture to you! If you so insist I won't leave out the possibility that He will leave those behind so they can have their wish!

It might not be as funny as you think when the time comes!

 

[DavidTree]

I guess He wasn't speaking the rapture to you! If you so insist I won't leave out the possibility that He will leave those behind so they can have their wish!

i am sorry, i did not know you were an apostle - lolx 1000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000

The REAL Apostle said:
But I will keep on doing what I am doing, in order to undercut those who want an opportunity to be regarded as our equals in the things of which they boast.
For such people are false apostles, deceitful workers, masquerading as apostles of Christ.

 

[Charlie24]

The falling away is a departure of the church’s faith. It’s worshiping the first one who claims to be Jesus because they are deceived and don’t know that it’s actually Satan, the antichrist. ….but the whole world, with the exception of those who
have the seal of God (His Word) in their foreheads (Rev. 9:4), will believe that he is the real Jesus Christ and will worship him as God!
That is the great falling away—the Great Apostasy! That's why the pre-tribulation rapture theory is such a dangerous doctrine. It sets people up for the fall—the great falling away.

Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.

- 2 Thessalonians 2:3-4 (NKJV)

Oh, OK! Their faith is "snatched away." I see now! Better try again!