THE WOMEN OF THE CHURCH

[SophieT]

I'm sorry

but you were not at all clear. everyone appears to have understood you differently than your intent

and then it took on a life of its own as these threads do

 

[Vindicator]

And yet, you STILL do not understand......sigh........

For the purpose of this Article, I am taking the position that their teachings are true and Biblical (my personal thoughts not withstanding).

The Article/OP does NOT reflect MY beliefs/teachings.......BUT the beliefs/teachings of the Church Leaders who place women in a "lesser position" in the Church....

Ah...

The expression is Devils Advocate. When you say "I am taking the position that," those words can easily be misconstrued to mean, "This is the position I subscribe to." But I understand now.

Misunderstanding then. My apologies.

 

[p_rehbein]

Did you or someone else write the OP?

I did not see a citation

I wrote it. And, in the past, I have posted the exact same Scriptures when arguing with those who teach against women having authority over men. Right??????????

I wrote it to show the terrible position the Church Leaders who teach such place the women of their Church in............

People see/read what they are inclined to see/read. Without actually reading with understanding. Preconceptions are a dangerous thing. And, surely, this Thread proves how prevalent it is here on CC.



If ANY of the women here believe I believe what the Church Leaders of those Churches teach............they might want to speak to Sister Angela. She, better than anyone else here know my position concerning women in the Church......

I am still sadened by the complete lack of understanding and rush to judgement/condemnation........goodness

 

[p_rehbein]

I'm sorry

but you were not at all clear. everyone appears to have understood you differently than your intent

and then it took on a life of its own as these threads do

And, is that not a sad thing? How much more clear could I have been?

. For the purpose of this Article, I am taking the position that their teachings are true and Biblical (my personal thoughts not withstanding).

The simple truth is; people read with their blinders of preconceptions. That fault is not on me now is it?

 

[SophieT]

Sophie, you are a child. You think my being put on ignore by you is some sort of punishment? Like I'm somehow now going to be deprived of your "wisdom"? Some punishment. I hope there aren't more members like you around here, because you behave like a four year old. As long as people like you are posting and have no convictions about their childish behavior, it's going to invite more and more children just like yourself to come be petty with one another instead of discussing the word of God.

But maybe this means I can talk to the adults now, if you don't contaminate this place with your spirit until there's little worth salvaging. I inhabit every forum there is, and when it comes up in discussion I'll be informing them that there's a child over at Christian Chat named "Sophie" who makes it a distasteful place to be when she addresses you. I'm hoping there are enough good people here to counter your spiritual immaturity.

oh sorry. you misunderstand. putting YOU on ignore means I cannot see YOUR posts

tootles

 

[SophieT]

And, is that not a sad thing? How much more clear could I have been?

. For the purpose of this Article, I am taking the position that their teachings are true and Biblical (my personal thoughts not withstanding).

The simple truth is; people read with their blinders of preconceptions. That fault is not on me now is it?

I'm sorry then. but I really did not understood your op as you now explain it. sometimes. people make posts they believe are clear and the responses they receive tell another story

if everyone saw it the opposite of what you meant, then perhaps you were not as clear as you thought

sorry though

 

[p_rehbein]

I do not care if people believe me or not, but I truly hurt for the women who are in these Churches............They are in a "no win" position.

And, I seriously doubt that the Church Leaders even realize just how terrible a position they are placing their women in. I truly do not believe they have spent sincere time in prayer and discussion concerning this issue.

It is like they are telling the women.................

You gotta obey Paul/God that you can't have authority over men. You can't be a Pastor/Teacher of men.........oh, but, no worries.....you don't have to obey ALL the other teachings......... hehe....we'll give you them

 

[SophieT]

I do not care if people believe me or not, but I truly hurt for the women who are in these Churches............They are in a "no win" position.

And, I seriously doubt that the Church Leaders even realize just how terrible a position they are placing their women in. I truly do not believe they have spent sincere time in prayer and discussion concerning this issue.

It is like they are telling the women.................

You gotta obey Paul/God that you can't have authority over men. You can't be a Pastor/Teacher of men.........oh, but, no worries.....you don't have to obey ALL the other teachings......... hehe....we'll give you them

the reality is, a number of men responding in this thread reflect your concerns

anyway, I believe you. this is a whole other story now.

 

[p_rehbein]

the opening is in contrast to the closing.

OPENING:

For several weeks now, I have been thinking of the situation of the women in the Church. It has been heavy on my heart, and I have given much thought as to how best present it here on Christian Chat.

I am not arguing any particular Church Group/Denominationl Teaching as being right or wrong. That is not the purpose of this Article.

The purpose of this Article is to discuss the situation that millions of women in the Church find themselves. There are numerous Chruch Groups/Denominations that teach the writings of the Apostle Paul concerning women. For the purpose of this Article, I am taking the position that their teachings are true and Biblical (my personal thoughts not withstanding).

CLOSING:

I pray that the Church Leaders will sincerely pray and seek to address this dire situation!

Praying for the women of the Church..........

Of ALL the people here, I am most surprised that you misunderstood.........

 

[Vindicator]

oh sorry. you misunderstand. putting YOU on ignore means I cannot see YOUR posts

tootles

When I've missed something you've said, I'll let you know, LoL.

But putting them in bold isn't going to make your posts any brighter, you know. You're still acting like an adolescent.

 

[p_rehbein]

the reality is, a number of men responding in this thread reflect your concerns

anyway, I believe you. this is a whole other story now.

The reality is that millions of men believe and teach that women are Scripturally relegated to a "lesser role" in the Church. and millions of women are held captive to those beliefs/teachings. It is a sad thing indeed.

 

[proverbs35]

And, is that not a sad thing? How much more clear could I have been?

. For the purpose of this Article, I am taking the position that their teachings are true and Biblical (my personal thoughts not withstanding).

The simple truth is; people read with their blinders of preconceptions. That fault is not on me now is it?

I must admit that I was triggered by your post. I don't think that I have really interacted with you much. I am not in the BD forum as often. I did remember that you had been an advocate for women. However, when I read the post, I thought you had gone off the deep end.

Anyway, thank you for clarifying your stance and the intent of your post.

 

[Dino246]

Just noticing your post. I can address the rest, but let me ask you this first: Do you really believe it is God's will for Christ to rule over the body of Christ? It has bearing, so I'm curious what your answer would be here, and thanks for the maturity in your post.

Yes. However, Christ died for the Church before ruling her.

That has bearing as well.

 

[Dino246]

The reality is that millions of men believe and teach that women are Scripturally relegated to a "lesser role" in the Church. and millions of women are held captive to those beliefs/teachings. It is a sad thing indeed.

Thanks for clarifying. I misunderstood you as well. My apologies.

 

[Laura798]

Read through the first three pages of comments, and it is laughingly clear that not ONE SINGLE PERSON actually read with understanding what I wrote in the OP.

ALL EVERYONE DID was to offer their "knee jerk reaction" to the verses/teachings recorded in the OP, and blaming the messenger because that is the best way to vent their anger. Sadly, they manage to simply misunderstand and completely FAIL to read with understanding what was written.

Not surprised. And, apparently, EVERYONE HERE has forgotten WHO IT IS that has stood lock step in keeping with the Biblical belief that women are allowed ALL Authorities that men are. Apparently, ALL HERE soon forgot my Article on Debrah the Prophetiss who sat in judgement of Israel. Far better to simply trash me without actually understanding what I wrote. READING COMPREHENSION TRULY IS AN ART FORM!

Consider this:

. There are numerous Chruch Groups/Denominations that teach the writings of the Apostle Paul concerning women. For the purpose of this Article, I am taking the position that their teachings are true and Biblical (my personal thoughts not withstanding).

Now, the situation women are faced with is that these writings of the Apostle Paul must be considered Commandments from God,

since their Church Leaders have established that all that the Apostle Paul spoke/wrote WERE Commandments from God.

I have GRAVE FEAR for these women. My heart hurts for them, and I pray for them.

I also do not believe their Church Leaders even recognize the situation THEY have placed their women in!

How do the Church Leaders justify enforcing only one of the Apostles writings while ignoring all the rest? Do they realize that they are commiting their women to live lives in disobedience to God?


So, WHO AM I BLAMING? The women who are caught up in the "teachings of their Church Leaders? OR THE CHURCH LEADERS?"

Apparently EVERYONE HERE HAS FORGOTTEN who it is that continously showed how that ALL THE APOSTLE PAUL WROTE/TAUGHT WERE NOT COMMANDMENTS FROM GOD. How the Apostle Paul taught in TWO DISTINCT ways..........Thus sayeth the Lord (commandments) and It would be better that/I would rather that......(advice given by the Apostle Paul on how to live a life best free of problems)

Six or seven years of defending womens rights within the Church, and ALL ANYONE READS is what I posted ON HOW THEIR CHURCH LEADERS BELIEVE.

My goodness, is it any wonder????????

These women are being placed in a dangerous position by their Church Leaders! WHO ARE THE CHURCH LEADERS?

THEY ARE THE MEN OF THE CHURCH!!!!!!!

goodness, reading comprehension is truly an art form

If everyone misunderstood, I believe you may want to consider that you did not make your position clear--at first I read it and thought you were supporting women then when I re-read it, after reading some of the other comments I thought you weren't.

You say: For the purpose of this Article, I am taking the position that their teachings are true and Biblical (my personal thoughts not withstanding). <this is definitely confusing.

Then you list numerous things a woman is supposed to do according to scripture, then you say this:
I do not know if these women even consider this reality, or, if they do, how they justify not obeying ALL the writings of the Apostle Paul?<how are we supposed to to understand this other than the way you have written it?

(one on the list about not reading their bibles--that is was a biggie--never heard of it--thought you were part of some sort of cult.)

and this: To receive their salvation in "childbearing," they MUST live in obedience to Gods Commandments!

I was further confused by your explanations. It comes across as: the situation is dire because the women in the church don't do all the other commands in scripture --only the one command is focused on in these churches and that is to keep silent.

I'm sorry--I attempted to read it yet again along with your explanation and I still find it confusing--I can only apologize that I couldn't ascertain your position--again. If all took it one way, then I think you must consider it is on you to be clearer.

 

[Oblio]

Like I said on another thread...women should be kept in the broom closet until needed. I don't see what's so complicated about that!
Look! It's a man's world! Women didn't make nuclear weapons...men did! Women aren't responsible for the pandemic...men are! Can you imagine what kind of a world it would be if women only did what they were told! A dead world...that's what kind of world.
Women are people of equal value to men. We need to value and respect each other as co-heirs of life. By putting each other's interests above our own. Where have I heard that before?
"3 Do nothing out of selfish ambition or vain conceit. Rather, in humility value others above yourselves," - Philippians 2:3
My mother was like this...she was amazing and she loved Jesus! Boy, do I miss her! I'll see her again...

 

[Laura798]

READING COMPREHENSION TRULY IS AN ART FORM!

And writing clearly so as to make your point clear is also an art form.

 

[Laura798]

Six or seven years of defending womens rights within the Church, and ALL ANYONE READS is what I posted ON HOW THEIR CHURCH LEADERS BELIEVE.

How are we to know this? And you mention a writing you did on Deborah the Prophetess as if all of us have read everything you've written. This is the first I've read anything of yours. And the first where I misunderstood the position the original poster was taking. I can't apologize for not understanding I can only apologize for my initial comment--because I thought you were in some sort of 'Christian' cult.

 

[Laura798]

Like I said on another thread...women should be kept in the broom closet until needed. I don't see what's so complicated about that!
Look! It's a man's world! Women didn't make nuclear weapons...men did! Women aren't responsible for the pandemic...men are! Can you imagine what kind of a world it would be if women only did what they were told! A dead world...that's what kind of world.
Women are people of equal value to men. We need to value and respect each other as co-heirs of life. By putting each other's interests above our own. Where have I heard that before?
"3 Do nothing out of selfish ambition or vain conceit. Rather, in humility value others above yourselves," - Philippians 2:3
My mother was like this...she was amazing and she loved Jesus! Boy, do I miss her! I'll see her again...

How about the garage? I've seen some pretty nice digs in a garage--sofa, fridge, tv, ping, pong table..and closer to the getaway car...

 

[p_rehbein]

If everyone misunderstood, I believe you may want to consider that you did not make your position clear--at first I read it and thought you were supporting women then when I re-read it, after reading some of the other comments I thought you weren't.

You say: For the purpose of this Article, I am taking the position that their teachings are true and Biblical (my personal thoughts not withstanding). <this is definitely confusing.
I said this so that people would understand that I was expressing the position of the Church Leaders who teach women in a "lesser role" in the Church....and that they were not my personal thoughts/beliefs. As clear as I could say it.
Then you list numerous things a woman is supposed to do according to scripture, then you say this:

I do not know if these women even consider this reality, or, if they do, how they justify not obeying ALL the writings of the Apostle Paul?<how are we supposed to to understand this other than the way you have written it?
The things/Scriptures I listed are the Scriptures the Apostle Paul taught/wrote, and the Scriptures the Church Leaders use to justify their position on women in the Church. Go back to the first comment.......I stated I would use their beliefs for the purpose of this Article.
(one on the list about not reading their bibles--that is was a biggie--never heard of it--thought you were part of some sort of cult.)

The Apostle Paul stated that if women were to learn anything, they were to ask their husbands at home. Pretty clear he did not believe they should be attending Bible Studies. Except the Studies the husband held for them "at home."
and this: To receive their salvation in "childbearing," they MUST live in obedience to Gods Commandments!

I was further confused by your explanations. It comes across as: the situation is dire because the women in the church don't do all the other commands in scripture --only the one command is focused on in these churches and that is to keep silent.

I'm sorry--I attempted to read it yet again along with your explanation and I still find it confusing--I can only apologize that I couldn't ascertain your position--again. If all took it one way, then I think you must consider it is on you to be clearer.

Not to be cavalier, but reading comprehension is necessary. I stated these were NOT my beliefs.............I stated I would approach the Article from the position of the Church Leaders. I did this because it is the only way to show the full depth of the problem women in these Churches face.

The Church Leaders believe ALL of the Apostles teachings concerning women. They believe that ALL of the Apostles teachings are to be considered Commandments from God. We know that we are ALL to obey Gods Commandments.

Yet, in practice, the Church Leaders ONLY enforce the one teaching, that being women not having authority over men. Thus, women not allowed to be Pastors or hold any Office in the Church that places them in a position of authority over men. Yet they make no effort to enforce the other teachings of the Apostle, even though they believe those teachings to be Commandments from God.

This failure on their part places the women of their Churches in a terrible position. Because the Church Leaders do not preach/teach the other teachings of the Apostle, there is no enforcement, nor any great attention paid to those teachings, and the women find themselves in the position of being disobedient to Commandments of God "according to their Church Leaders."

Do you, or does any other women on CC believe that this is a fair way to treat the women of these Churches? There is a serious problem with the teachings of these Churches! I hope and pray that the women recognize this, and that they approach their Church Leaders to address the problem, and find the real truth of Scripture.

I was clear. I was very clear! It seems that the majorty of people simply did not read or give thought to the first three paragraphs of the OP. Try reading with understanding:

For several weeks now, I have been thinking of the situation of the women in the Church. It has been heavy on my heart, and I have given much thought as to how best present it here on Christian Chat.

I am not arguing any particular Church Group/Denominationl Teaching as being right or wrong. That is not the purpose of this Article.

The purpose of this Article is to discuss the situation that millions of women in the Church find themselves. There are numerous Chruch Groups/Denominations that teach the writings of the Apostle Paul concerning women. For the purpose of this Article, I am taking the position that their teachings are true and Biblical (my personal thoughts not withstanding).

Can not be more clear. This is called a "disclaimer."

click to expand your comment. I put comments there as well........