Be Perfect As Your Heavenly Father Is Perfect.

[justbyfaith]

perhaps you are rarely ever tempted but being tempted even once means you are not perfect and can still sin, if you can still sin you have inperfection if we were perfect we would not even be tempted it wouldn't even be on our radar. There is nothing wrong with being imperfect and admitting that you sin in fact if you recall it was separated the tax collector and pharisee in God's eyes. But if one refuses to see or admit that they still sin even if rarely and claim to be perfected then they are the pharisee in that scenario.

The pharisee valued godliness and perfection but because he was blind to himself he was not found worthy to God, the thing about being blind is that you don't see or realize you are blind. given the season we are in nearing Christmas I will give an example a white lie. We call white lies that because they are not intended to be lies persay and perhaps this might trigger someone but santa for example, if we tell our kids the white lie about santa it is still a lie albeit a well intended one or the toothfairy or the easter bunny they are white lies but still lies.

does God hold it against us? I don't think he does but there is no lie in God and even a white lie is lying little things like that can be pinpointed to one thing sin and not just those but lots of little things we do and say everyday can be pinpointed to it

When I mention that I am tempted only farther and fewer between, I am speaking of the possibility that I may have now been perfected for ever as is promised in holy scripture (Hebrews 10:14 (kjv)). It means that the last time I was tempted was some time ago and that there may not come a next time for me to be tempted.

The problem with the Pharisee in the parable is that he was proud of his self-righteousness; he was thankful that he was not like other men; and was focused inward and did not care about the other men that he thought he was better than. He would have been truly righteous, had he, instead of thanking the Lord that he was not like the publican standing next to him, had said something like thie: "Lord, i see that you have done a work in me that you have not done in the man bowing next to me. I pray that you will, therefore, do the same work in him that you have done in me.

The Pharisee was focused on himself and did not care about the righteousness of the man next to him; it would appear that he was even glad that the man next to him was unrighteous.

Such is not the love of God.

Jesus Himself was perfect and you did not see Him being thankful that he was more righteous than everyone else. Rather, He sought to win those who were not righteous to the righteousness of God. Should Jesus have been as the tax collector? Was He not justified because He was not as the tax collector, saying unto God, "God, be merciful to me a sinner?" The obvious answer is no.

Therefore, the point of the parable is that we not be self-righteous; but if we have obtained the righteousness that comes from confessing that you have sinned, we ought to seek to win others to that same righteousness.

 

[justbyfaith]

+++

So, you're trying to say that the bumping up of my posts is not behaviour that is directed of the Holy Spirit?

Do you have scripture that speaks of why this is a sin?

I think that that is only your judgment.

Judge not according to the outward appearance; or according to the flesh; but judge righteous judgment.

 

[justbyfaith]

James speaks with the assumption that we are all tempted, though not by God. God tests us, but the enemy tempts us.

James 1.13 When tempted, no one should say, “God is tempting me.” For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone; 14 but each person is tempted when they are dragged away by their own evil desire and enticed.

Heb 12.4 In your struggle against sin, you have not yet resisted to the point of shedding your blood.

This latter verse suggests that the struggle against sin is real, and can get worse. Facing threats to our life is the worst. Nothing here suggests this is "easy" or "non-existent temptation!"

I think you have a lot of good thoughts, but do not reflect a biblical balance. Focusing on one set of truths does not mean you have to omit the other set of truths that in your mind presents a conflict. These things can be explained.

In your walk with God, you can indeed come to a place in your walk where you are no longer thirsty for the toilet water that is offered by this world (John 4:13-14, John 6:35, John 7:37-39)

 

[Blain]

I agree. For me it is the total humiliation of sin, after committing various acts, that make me never want to sin in those ways again! We can indeed be despicable creatures. But as you say, God's grace is truly "amazing!"

Oh yes the shame and guilt can be very heavy and that can be healthy if it's from the holy spirit but sadly the enemy can also use it against you. to feel guilt and learn from it is from the spirit but if you were like me it is very unhealthy the enemy made me believe I was something God said I wasn't. there is a difference between being humble and just beating yourself up

 

[justbyfaith]

Of course, if you are a sinner then you ought to question as to whether or not you are even born again (see 2 Corinthians 13:5).

1 John 3:8-9 should tell you what it means to be a sinner.

Most people like to avoid these verses; and as the result they may even avoid reading John's 1st epistle for the most part.

But, these verses stand as a testimony that if anyone is born of God they are no longer walking in the direction of sin in their lives;

They have begun to walk in a new direction.

As it is written,

Pro 4:18, But the path of the just is as the shining light, that shineth more and more unto the perfect day.

 

[Blain]

When I mention that I am tempted only farther and fewer between, I am speaking of the possibility that I may have now been perfected for ever as is promised in holy scripture (Hebrews 10:14 (kjv)). It means that the last time I was tempted was some time ago and that there may not come a next time for me to be tempted.

The problem with the Pharisee in the parable is that he was proud of his self-righteousness; he was thankful that he was not like other men; and was focused inward and did not care about the other men that he thought he was better than. He would have been truly righteous, had he, instead of thanking the Lord that he was not like the publican standing next to him, had said something like thie: "Lord, i see that you have done a work in me that you have not done in the man bowing next to me. I pray that you will, therefore, do the same work in him that you have done in me.

The Pharisee was focused on himself and did not care about the righteousness of the man next to him; it would appear that he was even glad that the man next to him was unrighteous.

Such is not the love of God.

Jesus Himself was perfect and you did not see Him being thankful that he was more righteous than everyone else. Rather, He sought to win those who were not righteous to the righteousness of God. Should Jesus have been as the tax collector? Was He not justified because He was not as the tax collector, saying unto God, "God, be merciful to me a sinner?" The obvious answer is no.

Therefore, the point of the parable is that we not be self-righteous; but if we have obtained the righteousness that comes from confessing that you have sinned, we ought to seek to win others to that same righteousness.

yes you are correct about the pharisee but my point was that he was blind to his own sin. Now as for hebrews if you notice the scriptures before it speak of taking away sin the entire paragraph speaks about the forgiveness of sin it doesn't speak of us never sinning again. the scriptures are speaking of being sanctified of sin as the sacrifices were at the time the only thing that did but Jesus being the ultimate sacrifiece brings us into the ultimate forgiveness of sin which is what the scriptures are talking about-forgiveness of sin.

unless I am mistaken do the scriptures not also say if we claim to be without sin we are liars and the truth is not in us? What then did they mean by that?

 

[justbyfaith]

+++

I know that I did not say "bump" that many times.

I actually switched over to posting

***

or

+++

at a certain point.

If you had wanted to quote me properly, you would have included those posts and not simply repeated the posts where I said "bump" by copying and pasting the same post over again.

 

[justbyfaith]

yes you are correct about the pharisee but my point was that he was blind to his own sin. Now as for hebrews if you notice the scriptures before it speak of taking away sin the entire paragraph speaks about the forgiveness of sin it doesn't speak of us never sinning again. the scriptures are speaking of being sanctified of sin as the sacrifices were at the time the only thing that did but Jesus being the ultimate sacrifiece brings us into the ultimate forgiveness of sin which is what the scriptures are talking about-forgiveness of sin.

unless I am mistaken do the scriptures not also say if we claim to be without sin we are liars and the truth is not in us? What then did they mean by that?

See Job 9:21, John 9:41, and Isaiah 42:19, as well as 1 Corinthians 4:3-4, as qualifying verses that apply to 1 John 1:8;

I believe that looking at those verses will answer every aspect of your question.

 

[Blain]

See Job 9:21, John 9:41, and Isaiah 42:19, as well as 1 Corinthians 4:3-4, as qualifying verses that apply to 1 John 1:8;

I believe that looking at those verses will answer every aspect of your question.

your talking about these verses right?
Although I am blameless, I have no concern for myself; I despise my own life.
Jesus said, “If you were blind, you would not be guilty of sin; but now that you claim you can see, your guilt remains.
19 Who is blind, but my servant? or deaf, as my messenger that I sent? who is blind as he that is perfect, and blind as the Lord's servant?
3 I care very little if I am judged by you or by any human court; indeed, I do not even judge myself. 4 My conscience is clear, but that does not make me innocent. It is the Lord who judges me.
interesting message they all make together but no they don't answer my question in fact unless I got the verses wrong they have nothing to do with my question but it does appear you are trying to say something with them.

If I am right then that is very clever but if I am mistaken then I need to know which ones you mean as my eyes are pretty bad so I may have gotten them wrong

 

[randyk]

In your walk with God, you can indeed come to a place in your walk where you are no longer thirsty for the toilet water that is offered by this world (John 4:13-14, John 6:35, John 7:37-39)

It has nothing to do with thirst for "toilet water." Temptation is an attempt to draw us away from our contentment with Christ, and we need to resist it--whatever form that temptation takes.

 

[justbyfaith]

your talking about these verses right?
Although I am blameless, I have no concern for myself; I despise my own life.
Jesus said, “If you were blind, you would not be guilty of sin; but now that you claim you can see, your guilt remains.
19 Who is blind, but my servant? or deaf, as my messenger that I sent? who is blind as he that is perfect, and blind as the Lord's servant?
3 I care very little if I am judged by you or by any human court; indeed, I do not even judge myself. 4 My conscience is clear, but that does not make me innocent. It is the Lord who judges me.
interesting message they all make together but no they don't answer my question in fact unless I got the verses wrong they have nothing to do with my question but it does appear you are trying to say something with them.

If I am right then that is very clever but if I am mistaken then I need to know which ones you mean as my eyes are pretty bad so I may have gotten them wrong

Look them up in the kjv.

 

[justbyfaith]

It has nothing to do with thirst for "toilet water." Temptation is an attempt to draw us away from our contentment with Christ, and we need to resist it--whatever form that temptation takes.

The point is that if we partake of the water that Christ has to offer, we will never thirst again...

So we will not be desiring the water of sin that is offered to us by this world...we will not be tempted by it.

 

[justbyfaith]

The point is that if we partake of the water that Christ has to offer, we will never thirst again...

So we will not be desiring the water of sin that is offered to us by this world...we will not be tempted by it.

Therefore we will not need to "resist it" as a temptation...we will not be tempted by it in the first place.

Because God will have taken away the desire for it.

 

[randyk]

The point is that if we partake of the water that Christ has to offer, we will never thirst again...

So we will not be desiring the water of sin that is offered to us by this world...we will not be tempted by it.

In my opinion, you're living in denial--probably trying to focus so much on Jesus that your mind doesn't have time to consider the alternatives. But I think that's bad for your brain. You do need to take Jesus with you, but you also have to focus on your business in the world as well. It's not as if you're trying to get caught up in the temptation, but that in carrying out your business in the world there *will be* temptation. And that's when you can apply the mind of Christ.

 

[justbyfaith]

In my opinion, you're living in denial--probably trying to focus so much on Jesus that your mind doesn't have time to consider the alternatives. But I think that's bad for your brain. You do need to take Jesus with you, but you also have to focus on your business in the world as well. It's not as if you're trying to get caught up in the temptation, but that in carrying out your business in the world there *will be* temptation. And that's when you can apply the mind of Christ.

The old complaint that "you're so heavenly minded you're no earthly good" bit, huh?

I think that Colossians 3 refutes that idea quite nicely.

 

[soberxp]

Become perfect, like a never-ending running race, try your best to finish it

 

[randyk]

The old complaint that "you're so heavenly minded you're no earthly good" bit, huh?

I think that Colossians 3 refutes that idea quite nicely.

Suit yourself. Just trying to help you, brother. I don't want to seem like the Devil pushing you in the wrong direction. I just want you to feel free to breath, since I consider it impossible and unhealthy to try to live in perfection. By all means, pursue holiness, but not perfection. You'll never get there, and you'll end up discouraged and judgmental towards others. You'll be overloading others with burdens they cannot carry.

Luke 11.46 Jesus replied, “And you experts in the law, woe to you, because you load people down with burdens they can hardly carry, and you yourselves will not lift one finger to help them.

 

[Blain]

The point is that if we partake of the water that Christ has to offer, we will never thirst again...

So we will not be desiring the water of sin that is offered to us by this world...we will not be tempted by it.

You know something I noticed about Jesus in his time here is that the more he did God's will the more he was attacked by the enemy he was even on the mountain tempted by him. There is a wise saying that says if your being attacked by the enemy you must be doing something right. The more we walk in him and the closer we become to God the more we are attacked and tempted and I am sure many here can attest to that.
You claim to rarely be tempted but if say the enemy tempts and attacks us because he wants to draw us away from that place of intimacy with him we are dangerous to the enemies mission things get harder the more we draw near to him not easier.

We are tempted more and attacked more the closer we are to God not less being perfect has nothing to do with never sinning and being sinless but has everything to do with unity with him we are made perfect and spotless in him not because we never sin but because he never sinned and died for us.

 

[Blain]

your talking about these verses right?
Although I am blameless, I have no concern for myself; I despise my own life.
Jesus said, “If you were blind, you would not be guilty of sin; but now that you claim you can see, your guilt remains.
19 Who is blind, but my servant? or deaf, as my messenger that I sent? who is blind as he that is perfect, and blind as the Lord's servant?
3 I care very little if I am judged by you or by any human court; indeed, I do not even judge myself. 4 My conscience is clear, but that does not make me innocent. It is the Lord who judges me.
interesting message they all make together but no they don't answer my question in fact unless I got the verses wrong they have nothing to do with my question but it does appear you are trying to say something with them.

If I am right then that is very clever but if I am mistaken then I need to know which ones you mean as my eyes are pretty bad so I may have gotten them wrong

Look them up in the kjv.

I just did and maybe I am missing something here but this doesn't answer my question it just shows the world is blind to God's truth.
But pay close to attention to the wording in this verse 1 john 8-9






[8] If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. [9] If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. [10] If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
Note he uses the word we three times in the first sentence he didn't say the world he didn't say mankind or those not in Christ he said we then in the second part of the first sentence he uses the word us then in the second sentence uses the word we again and the word our in total he uses the word we six times our twice and us four times all words including ourselves that have to do with as a collective us we our he is speaking of everyone in the room that he is preaching to those who were in Christ.

To be honest I know I cannot convince you otherwise I know denial when I see it but I just thoiught you should ponder on why he uses these words in particular so many times in just this verse

 

[randyk]

You know something I noticed about Jesus in his time here is that the more he did God's will the more he was attacked by the enemy he was even on the mountain tempted by him. There is a wise saying that says if your being attacked by the enemy you must be doing something right. The more we walk in him and the closer we become to God the more we are attacked and tempted and I am sure many here can attest to that.
You claim to rarely be tempted but if say the enemy tempts and attacks us because he wants to draw us away from that place of intimacy with him we are dangerous to the enemies mission things get harder the more we draw near to him not easier.

We are tempted more and attacked more the closer we are to God not less being perfect has nothing to do with never sinning and being sinless but has everything to do with unity with him we are made perfect and spotless in him not because we never sin but because he never sinned and died for us.

Yea, it does seem that Paul was attacked for his message on "grace!"

Gal 5.10 I am confident in the Lord that you will take no other view. The one who is throwing you into confusion, whoever that may be, will have to pay the penalty. 11 Brothers and sisters, if I am still preaching circumcision, why am I still being persecuted? In that case the offense of the cross has been abolished. 12 As for those agitators, I wish they would go the whole way and emasculate themselves!
13 You, my brothers and sisters, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the flesh; rather, serve one another humbly in love. 14 For the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.” 15 If you bite and devour each other, watch out or you will be destroyed by each other.

I agree with you. It has never been about our being sinlessly perfect. That is a *false* definition of "perfection" in the way Paul and Jesus would use that term. To be properly in compliance with the covenant is what "perfection" really means, and this *never* required perfection. The old covenant prevented immortality simply by breaking a single law, or by committing a single sin--just like in the garden of Eden. But the covenant of Grace never required sinlessness--it only required a sinless Christ to make restitution for us.

God wants spiritual unity with us, and that on an eternal basis. That is all that is required of us--our genuine love and affection!!

When we read that Jesus said "be perfect," what he meant to say was "don't be a fraud," or "don't pretend religious devotion." "Perfection," in this sense, refers to being properly in compliance with the spirit of the law, rather than to be sinless in obeying the Law. It means to not *fake* keeping the Law. To be "perfect" is to obey Christ's mandates properly, as he intended, which *never* required perfection!