Why Are Women Expected to be the Gatekeepers of Virginity?

[herkamer63]

Why are women expected to be the gatekeepers of virginity:

Okay, as many people said on here, both men and women need to be. I don't know where you're getting off implying that women are the ONLY ones that need to be, but whatever, if that's the way you feel, and I'll be happy to provide an answer.

If you take the time to listen to most normal Christian men, we do our part to remain pure until marriage. I understand that there are Christian women that do the same, but there are those females out there that are told it's all about them, and it's coming from secular sources. What are these secular sources? Simple, they're women's studies in schools. There's also many sections of the entertainment industry, pop culture, sports, and advertisement for sexual products. All of this heavily encourages women to do whatever they want with no consequences.

Working in a doctors office, I couldn't even tell you the number of single mothers out there that have multiple kids with multiple partners. This isn't to say that a lot of men are innocent in all this because they're just as guilty of doing what I'm about to say, but it's typically women as of late that have multiple partners. And when they do have a guy around, they're not the biological father of those children. The actual dads of those children are long gone, and that one guy ends up being more of a glorified babysitter and source of income rather than an actual father figure, while those mothers do what they want. A lot of times, those guys don't even know they're being cheated on. Isn't always the case because there are circumstances that are rare, such as a father/husband passing away or if who ever it was decided to raise a hand, shall we say, against a woman. That's understandable for a man to step in and help both the mother and children out, but, again, it's rare. But typically, it's just some poor Joe being taken advantaged of so that the mother of the children bears hardly any responsibility for those kids.

Then the subject of sex itself comes up and how it plays into a relationship. Again, a disclaimer, there are men that are NOT innocent in all this, just so we're clear. Trying to stay on topic is all. Anyway, most normal guys, especially Christian men, would like a woman who had not been with multiple partners. They don't want to be with women who are currently talking to other men as well. I don't want a woman who's body count is in the double or even triple digits. Forget that. And I would imagine that there are women out there that think the same way with the men they're interested in. However, society seems to give a pass for women for doing this. I'll point to again women studies, entertainment, and advertisement. They even encourage it while saying it's not okay for men to do so, unless if it's the Chads (which I'll get into here in a bit). Adultery is a sin for both sexes and no one is exempt from it. Period.

So last up, the topic of the Chads, and this name is a dog whistle to many women out there because they know who exactly what type of men these guys are (and this could be a long one). To sum up what these guys are, Chads are your bad boys, pretty boys, 9s, and 10s. These are the men that are promised to women by pop culture. In many ways, Chads are worshipped by many women. Seriously, if you pay attention to these women and how they treat these men, it's like a religion, with the Chads being their gods, while viewing themselves as goddesses. If any of these women get a hold of one of them, THEY NEVER GIVE THEM UP, EVEN AFETR A BREAK UP! I wish I was making this up, but it's the literal truth. Many men have gone through this and can confirm it has happened. Me included.

I dated a woman who had a man like this. I never met him, but according to her sister and the woman herself, he was a horrible man and was EXTREMELY bad to this woman. However, with every put down of the guy, it was ALWAYS followed up by a compliment. The put downs were only a feint to mask how she actually felt about him. The last time she and I dated, her ex-Chad passed away. She found out BY THE GUY'S WIFE, so basically, she was still in contact with him while he was alive. Even though I can't 100% confirm this, but she called off our relationship because of him. Around the time she ghosted me, there was a very close relative of hers birthday who had also passed away that same year. I thought she was going through a depression because of the relationship, but it turned out she was okay over that. However the passing of her Chad was around the time of the relative's birthday. Again, I can't confirm that was the reason for breakup, but given the timing and how much she praised this man, it wouldn't surprise me at all, and she had been through other men after this man. She had not maintained contact with them nor with me. Just that one guy. Pretty sad if you ask me.

Anyway, I found out later that they had bedroom fun on multiple occasions before they were engaged, and this guy had in fact forced himself onto her, but yet she stayed with him for a few years longer. To this day, she can't let this guy go. The fact she continues to compliment this man is proof of it. I'm friends with her sister, and to my knowledge she had not been with another man since after we had called it off. I know there are men who can't let go of certain women that are the equivalent of the Chad, but it seems more accepted for women to hold onto their past "loves" (more like lust) because we as a society have allowed it, when it creates more problems than it solves. If you want a good Christian man, then allow them to take you out on a date. You know who they are. But to many of you on here, that's not what you want. You rather go with the bad boys because you think you can change them to fulfill this fairy tale scenario you have and not someone who prefers living in reality.

As I said at the beginning, both men and women need to be gatekeepers of virginity until marriage. So women are not alone on this, but coming from both men AND women, especially those in the older generations, there are many females that don't get it because they're taught it's all about them rather than for the glory of God. It's not sexist to say that women of today NEED to be reminded of that because men are told this everyday. Yes, there are bad men, but women need to avoid them if they're looking for someone who's godly. This isn't a one way street, so don't treat as if you're the only ones being told this.

 

[JohnDB]

Why are women expected to be the gatekeepers of virginity:

Okay, as many people said on here, both men and women need to be. I don't know where you're getting off implying that women are the ONLY ones that need to be, but whatever, if that's the way you feel, and I'll be happy to provide an answer.

If you take the time to listen to most normal Christian men, we do our part to remain pure until marriage. I understand that there are Christian women that do the same, but there are those females out there that are told it's all about them, and it's coming from secular sources. What are these secular sources? Simple, they're women's studies in schools. There's also many sections of the entertainment industry, pop culture, sports, and advertisement for sexual products. All of this heavily encourages women to do whatever they want with no consequences.

Working in a doctors office, I couldn't even tell you the number of single mothers out there that have multiple kids with multiple partners. This isn't to say that a lot of men are innocent in all this because they're just as guilty of doing what I'm about to say, but it's typically women as of late that have multiple partners. And when they do have a guy around, they're not the biological father of those children. The actual dads of those children are long gone, and that one guy ends up being more of a glorified babysitter and source of income rather than an actual father figure, while those mothers do what they want. A lot of times, those guys don't even know they're being cheated on. Isn't always the case because there are circumstances that are rare, such as a father/husband passing away or if who ever it was decided to raise a hand, shall we say, against a woman. That's understandable for a man to step in and help both the mother and children out, but, again, it's rare. But typically, it's just some poor Joe being taken advantaged of so that the mother of the children bears hardly any responsibility for those kids.

Then the subject of sex itself comes up and how it plays into a relationship. Again, a disclaimer, there are men that are NOT innocent in all this, just so we're clear. Trying to stay on topic is all. Anyway, most normal guys, especially Christian men, would like a woman who had not been with multiple partners. They don't want to be with women who are currently talking to other men as well. I don't want a woman who's body count is in the double or even triple digits. Forget that. And I would imagine that there are women out there that think the same way with the men they're interested in. However, society seems to give a pass for women for doing this. I'll point to again women studies, entertainment, and advertisement. They even encourage it while saying it's not okay for men to do so, unless if it's the Chads (which I'll get into here in a bit). Adultery is a sin for both sexes and no one is exempt from it. Period.

So last up, the topic of the Chads, and this name is a dog whistle to many women out there because they know who exactly what type of men these guys are (and this could be a long one). To sum up what these guys are, Chads are your bad boys, pretty boys, 9s, and 10s. These are the men that are promised to women by pop culture. In many ways, Chads are worshipped by many women. Seriously, if you pay attention to these women and how they treat these men, it's like a religion, with the Chads being their gods, while viewing themselves as goddesses. If any of these women get a hold of one of them, THEY NEVER GIVE THEM UP, EVEN AFETR A BREAK UP! I wish I was making this up, but it's the literal truth. Many men have gone through this and can confirm it has happened. Me included.

I dated a woman who had a man like this. I never met him, but according to her sister and the woman herself, he was a horrible man and was EXTREMELY bad to this woman. However, with every put down of the guy, it was ALWAYS followed up by a compliment. The put downs were only a feint to mask how she actually felt about him. The last time she and I dated, her ex-Chad passed away. She found out BY THE GUY'S WIFE, so basically, she was still in contact with him while he was alive. Even though I can't 100% confirm this, but she called off our relationship because of him. Around the time she ghosted me, there was a very close relative of hers birthday who had also passed away that same year. I thought she was going through a depression because of the relationship, but it turned out she was okay over that. However the passing of her Chad was around the time of the relative's birthday. Again, I can't confirm that was the reason for breakup, but given the timing and how much she praised this man, it wouldn't surprise me at all, and she had been through other men after this man. She had not maintained contact with them nor with me. Just that one guy. Pretty sad if you ask me.

Anyway, I found out later that they had bedroom fun on multiple occasions before they were engaged, and this guy had in fact forced himself onto her, but yet she stayed with him for a few years longer. To this day, she can't let this guy go. The fact she continues to compliment this man is proof of it. I'm friends with her sister, and to my knowledge she had not been with another man since after we had called it off. I know there are men who can't let go of certain women that are the equivalent of the Chad, but it seems more accepted for women to hold onto their past "loves" (more like lust) because we as a society have allowed it, when it creates more problems than it solves. If you want a good Christian man, then allow them to take you out on a date. You know who they are. But to many of you on here, that's not what you want. You rather go with the bad boys because you think you can change them to fulfill this fairy tale scenario you have and not someone who prefers living in reality.

As I said at the beginning, both men and women need to be gatekeepers of virginity until marriage. So women are not alone on this, but coming from both men AND women, especially those in the older generations, there are many females that don't get it because they're taught it's all about them rather than for the glory of God. It's not sexist to say that women of today NEED to be reminded of that because men are told this everyday. Yes, there are bad men, but women need to avoid them if they're looking for someone who's godly. This isn't a one way street, so don't treat as if you're the only ones being told this.

Preach it Brother!
Women are more likely to use sex and attraction as tools for manipulation than anything else.

 

[seoulsearch]

Why are women expected to be the gatekeepers of virginity:

Okay, as many people said on here, both men and women need to be. I don't know where you're getting off implying that women are the ONLY ones that need to be, but whatever, if that's the way you feel, and I'll be happy to provide an answer.

If you take the time to listen to most normal Christian men, we do our part to remain pure until marriage. I understand that there are Christian women that do the same, but there are those females out there that are told it's all about them, and it's coming from secular sources. What are these secular sources? Simple, they're women's studies in schools. There's also many sections of the entertainment industry, pop culture, sports, and advertisement for sexual products. All of this heavily encourages women to do whatever they want with no consequences.

Working in a doctors office, I couldn't even tell you the number of single mothers out there that have multiple kids with multiple partners. This isn't to say that a lot of men are innocent in all this because they're just as guilty of doing what I'm about to say, but it's typically women as of late that have multiple partners. And when they do have a guy around, they're not the biological father of those children. The actual dads of those children are long gone, and that one guy ends up being more of a glorified babysitter and source of income rather than an actual father figure, while those mothers do what they want. A lot of times, those guys don't even know they're being cheated on. Isn't always the case because there are circumstances that are rare, such as a father/husband passing away or if who ever it was decided to raise a hand, shall we say, against a woman. That's understandable for a man to step in and help both the mother and children out, but, again, it's rare. But typically, it's just some poor Joe being taken advantaged of so that the mother of the children bears hardly any responsibility for those kids.

Then the subject of sex itself comes up and how it plays into a relationship. Again, a disclaimer, there are men that are NOT innocent in all this, just so we're clear. Trying to stay on topic is all. Anyway, most normal guys, especially Christian men, would like a woman who had not been with multiple partners. They don't want to be with women who are currently talking to other men as well. I don't want a woman who's body count is in the double or even triple digits. Forget that. And I would imagine that there are women out there that think the same way with the men they're interested in. However, society seems to give a pass for women for doing this. I'll point to again women studies, entertainment, and advertisement. They even encourage it while saying it's not okay for men to do so, unless if it's the Chads (which I'll get into here in a bit). Adultery is a sin for both sexes and no one is exempt from it. Period.

So last up, the topic of the Chads, and this name is a dog whistle to many women out there because they know who exactly what type of men these guys are (and this could be a long one). To sum up what these guys are, Chads are your bad boys, pretty boys, 9s, and 10s. These are the men that are promised to women by pop culture. In many ways, Chads are worshipped by many women. Seriously, if you pay attention to these women and how they treat these men, it's like a religion, with the Chads being their gods, while viewing themselves as goddesses. If any of these women get a hold of one of them, THEY NEVER GIVE THEM UP, EVEN AFETR A BREAK UP! I wish I was making this up, but it's the literal truth. Many men have gone through this and can confirm it has happened. Me included.

I dated a woman who had a man like this. I never met him, but according to her sister and the woman herself, he was a horrible man and was EXTREMELY bad to this woman. However, with every put down of the guy, it was ALWAYS followed up by a compliment. The put downs were only a feint to mask how she actually felt about him. The last time she and I dated, her ex-Chad passed away. She found out BY THE GUY'S WIFE, so basically, she was still in contact with him while he was alive. Even though I can't 100% confirm this, but she called off our relationship because of him. Around the time she ghosted me, there was a very close relative of hers birthday who had also passed away that same year. I thought she was going through a depression because of the relationship, but it turned out she was okay over that. However the passing of her Chad was around the time of the relative's birthday. Again, I can't confirm that was the reason for breakup, but given the timing and how much she praised this man, it wouldn't surprise me at all, and she had been through other men after this man. She had not maintained contact with them nor with me. Just that one guy. Pretty sad if you ask me.

Anyway, I found out later that they had bedroom fun on multiple occasions before they were engaged, and this guy had in fact forced himself onto her, but yet she stayed with him for a few years longer. To this day, she can't let this guy go. The fact she continues to compliment this man is proof of it. I'm friends with her sister, and to my knowledge she had not been with another man since after we had called it off. I know there are men who can't let go of certain women that are the equivalent of the Chad, but it seems more accepted for women to hold onto their past "loves" (more like lust) because we as a society have allowed it, when it creates more problems than it solves. If you want a good Christian man, then allow them to take you out on a date. You know who they are. But to many of you on here, that's not what you want. You rather go with the bad boys because you think you can change them to fulfill this fairy tale scenario you have and not someone who prefers living in reality.

As I said at the beginning, both men and women need to be gatekeepers of virginity until marriage. So women are not alone on this, but coming from both men AND women, especially those in the older generations, there are many females that don't get it because they're taught it's all about them rather than for the glory of God. It's not sexist to say that women of today NEED to be reminded of that because men are told this everyday. Yes, there are bad men, but women need to avoid them if they're looking for someone who's godly. This isn't a one way street, so don't treat as if you're the only ones being told this.

As for your statement which I emphasized in bold print, this is most certainly not what I'm trying to say. I'd like to think that I explained very clearly in my posts that my questioning is more about social expectations and most certainly not a belief that women are to hold all the responsibility.

If anything, I'm saying the exact opposite -- that it needs to rest on both genders, and I have discussed my thoughts about this to an exhaustive length already within this thread.

In the 12 years I've been here, writing threads about somewhat controversial subjects or things that the Christian community rarely seems to talk about has always been my general schtick. I also tend to do is write a somewhat generic title that people will easily misunderstand if they don't read my subsequent posts, and I understand when they don't. But I do keep doing this because I like to see who is invested in reading other people's answers and taking them to heart, and who just wants to throw out their answer to the question.

Either one is fine and to be expected on this type of medium. It's just that I am attracted to, and seek to attract, the former type of posters rather than the latter, and I like to throw out these types of threads to see who they are. I know any net will catch a wide variety of personalities and that's awesome, but there are particular ones I am trying to find when I write these types of threads. And my hope is that it also provides others to find and connect with people they can relate to as well.

Understandably, it brings out very strong viewpoints, and behind every perspective is the person's own personal experiences and perspectives, many of which the writers will stick to because that's what they know.

I don't feel a need to answer further because as I said, I've answered plenty in this thread already, and it's not the first time you've taken what I've said and put your own personal interpretation on it, resulting in a statement such as the one I highlighted above that is not the perspective I'm trying to present at all.

I've come to expect this in your answers to my threads -- so I'll just thank you for taking the time to share your own personal point of view and experience.

 

[seoulsearch]

Not wanting to minimize anyone's pain or struggle, but I'm not sure that the idea of being able to be healed of these things is one that the Biblical authors would have or comprehend. It's only in the last couple hundred years that we've pathologized addiction and mental illness so the idea of seeing those as diseases that needed healing would be foreign to the culture the Bible was written in.

I think the closest we come to seeing Jesus address something like this is when he tells "sinful" women to leave their life of sin. Because ultimately addictions (including sexual addiction) are behavioral. And there's a lot of behavioral guidance in the Bible. What there's very little of is qualifications of the why you're doing this wrong behavior. Doesn't matter if you were abused or addicted to porn or what before you became a Christian, now God's rule and guidance is sex with only your spouse. Doesn't matter why you get drunk, drunkenness isn't compatible with a Christian life. I do believe that part of the salvation and sanctification process is God working on your emotions and lies you've believed, etc, and I'm not going to say that seeking mental and emotional healing is an ungodly thing; I'm just saying that the sinful behavior brings death and destruction regardless of the reasons it got a foothold. And that the categories we think in today are not the same as the categories people thought in 2000 years ago.

I'm having trouble articulating the other half of these thoughts which is something along the lines that as we became more Christian many types of suffering became the exception not the rule and we lost our ability to relate and speak to it. We now think of suffering as exceptional rather than a normal part of life and that has to have a huge impact on how we respond to people in the midst of suffering (and maybe be happy pills aren't always the best answer).

I have often wondered about the Samaritan woman whom Jesus talked to as well. Five husbands and a current boyfriend -- would today's "experts" say that she had a "disorder," such as "sex and love addiction", since there are actual therapy treatment plans for this?

Was she abused from a young age and that's why she felt she had to run from man to man? (Aside from the fact that in that time and culture, the only choice for women to survive was either latching onto a man or prostitution.) But Jesus never addressed any of the possible causes behind it, chose her as one of the very few people whom He admitted to being the Messiah up front, and made such an impression on her that had to invite everyone to "Come meet a man who told me everything I ever did" -- and I'm sure none of the townspeople thought any of her actions were any good.

I also wonder if the USA's "victim culture" is what keeps us from seeing or experiencing much healing. The general attitude in the USA is that everything is done TO us, WE are the victims, and if we act out, it's only because of others who have committed sins against US.

I wrote about Dr. Smith in another post (a Christian psychologist who specializes in sexual abuse victims,) and he noted something that really stood out to me. In some of the cases he'd seen, THE PERSON WHO HAD BEEN ABUSED had to confess THEIR sin and ask God for their OWN forgiveness before they could make any progress. The focus was entirely on their own actions and not the abusers.

For example, one case was of a man (and this could just as easily apply to a woman,) who started out as a victim, but over time, he would purposely visit his abuser (a neighbor) by his own choice in anticipation of the attention and sexual excitement he knew he would get. Dr. Smith explained that any work in their sessions (the man specifically asked for help in getting over his sense of shame) was halted until he was truly repentant of his own sin.

I couldn't help but think, how many people (and I was thinking of my own divorce) ever get to a point where WE are broken and asking God for all the things WE did wrong in a situation in which someone else did evil to us?

I know that I personally felt convicted on the spot, and I was trying to imagine all the victimized people on Dr. Phil and Jerry Springer ever breaking down and asking for forgiveness for their own wrongdoings.

Now I am certainly NOT saying that there aren't any cases in which someone actually is an innocent victim, but when it comes to our own human nature of bitterness, grudges, and revenge, I would guess that these cases are few and far in between.

And I wonder if the fact that we're all being taught to think of ourselves as victims -- not sinners, and surely not sinners on par with those who victimize us! -- is why so many never get healed or even make any progress.

 

[TheIndianGirl]

I wrote about Dr. Smith in another post (a Christian psychologist who specializes in sexual abuse victims,) and he noted something that really stood out to me. In some of the cases he'd seen, THE PERSON WHO HAD BEEN ABUSED had to confess THEIR sin and ask God for their OWN forgiveness before they could make any progress. The focus was entirely on their own actions and not the abusers.

I have met a few Christians who were essentially spiritual healers who have the same view as Dr. Smith, that in order to be healed (spiritual, medical, etc.) one must confess all sins and seek forgiveness, even if it is in the case of an abuse victim who wants healing from the abuse she/he has endured. Is this Biblical? I had not heard of this approach until I met those Christians. They also said a lot of pastors do not like to go into the spiritual healing route, and that their practice is kind of separate/different from traditional pastors. I think confessing and seeking forgiveness is Biblical, but to link it to spiritual healing from past abuse (or even link to a medical cure/healing) I am not too knowledgeable about that.

 

[seoulsearch]

They also said a lot of pastors do not like to go into the spiritual healing route, and that their practice is kind of separate/different from traditional pastors. I think confessing and seeking forgiveness is Biblical, but to link it to spiritual healing from past abuse (or even link to a medical cure/healing) I am not too knowledgeable about that.

Thank you for making this excellent point.

I think all of us, being on a spiritual journey, are each at a different step in life, and I personally believe that confessing and seeking forgiveness is A step, but is not the ULTIMATE, end-all be-all for every problem.

I certainly don't believe that everything, whether physical, mental, or spiritual, can be cured through confession and forgiveness, or even in this lifetime here on earth.

After all, we are told clearly that Paul was purposely given a thorn in the flesh, and it was not going away.

What interested me about Dr. Smith's work was that he seemed to have some progress in a field in which other people were throwing up their hands in defeat (though for the sake of their credentials, they would say they were making great progress.) I was attending a church that was big on healing, and I went through the Theophostic classes twice because I was so enthusiastic about his work. For whatever reason, talking to abuse victims seems to be part of my calling, and I was desperate to have something to give to people other than, "God loves you."

I'm not at all saying that this isn't an effective statement, but those who have tried to console sexual abuse victims will know what I mean.

I was planning to sign up with my church group to attend a retreat in which Dr. Smith was personally teaching classes. I can't remember why I didn't wind up going -- for some reason, life went in another direction.

Several years later, I was reading about how his Theophostic Ministry was running into legal trouble.

Those who were opposed to the ministry accused its practitioners of suggesting or implanting false memories. Those who were in favor said that the devil was obviously attacking the ministry, and that they could rest in the knowledge that this "spiritual warfare" against them was further proof of its effectiveness.

I need to some research as to whether or not it's even still going on. I still have the textbooks from that class and would read them every few years as a refresher, because I did try some of the prayers he had suggested and I do believe it helped some people. At the very least, it gave me a direction when talking to people about this that I had never had before.

But I agree with you 100%, The Indian Girl.

I don't think we can ever expect anything by itself in this life, not even prayer and confession, to be some kind of foolproof panacea to any and all ailments.

 

[Lanolin]

thought it was prayer and fasting that routed demons, not prayer and confession, at least thats what it said in my Bible

we can reasonably conclude that Mary Magdalene in the Bible had a sexual history and that Jesus did cast out seven demons from her. She was healed

As was the woman caught in adultery, and she was not stoned after all cos all the men were guilty too. Instead she was forgiven and shown mercy, yet also told to go and sin no more.

The woman with five husbands told everyone about Jesus. She also marveled that he knew all she ever did. I take it as a phrase to mean Jesus knew her sorrows and heartaches and that he didnt judge her for them.

she wasnt going to lie and present herself as a virgin when she wasnt. and she didnt have to.

 

[Lanolin]

Jesus also said that the publicans and the tax collectors and prostitues were entering heaven before the super relgious Pharisees who were always washing their hands and trying to look clean, as they didn think they needed to repent of anything.

 

[herkamer63]

As for your statement which I emphasized in bold print, this is most certainly not what I'm trying to say. I'd like to think that I explained very clearly in my posts that my questioning is more about social expectations and most certainly not a belief that women are to hold all the responsibility.

If anything, I'm saying the exact opposite -- that it needs to rest on both genders, and I have discussed my thoughts about this to an exhaustive length already within this thread.

In the 12 years I've been here, writing threads about somewhat controversial subjects or things that the Christian community rarely seems to talk about has always been my general schtick. I also tend to do is write a somewhat generic title that people will easily misunderstand if they don't read my subsequent posts, and I understand when they don't. But I do keep doing this because I like to see who is invested in reading other people's answers and taking them to heart, and who just wants to throw out their answer to the question.

Either one is fine and to be expected on this type of medium. It's just that I am attracted to, and seek to attract, the former type of posters rather than the latter, and I like to throw out these types of threads to see who they are. I know any net will catch a wide variety of personalities and that's awesome, but there are particular ones I am trying to find when I write these types of threads. And my hope is that it also provides others to find and connect with people they can relate to as well.

Understandably, it brings out very strong viewpoints, and behind every perspective is the person's own personal experiences and perspectives, many of which the writers will stick to because that's what they know.

I don't feel a need to answer further because as I said, I've answered plenty in this thread already, and it's not the first time you've taken what I've said and put your own personal interpretation on it, resulting in a statement such as the one I highlighted above that is not the perspective I'm trying to present at all.

I've come to expect this in your answers to my threads -- so I'll just thank you for taking the time to share your own personal point of view and experience.

And this is where I push back because I read through your thread again. I stand by what I posted, and no, I'm not taking anything that you said out of context. You clearly don't know what is that normal men go through. Even going through grade school, normal guys don't exhibit the behavior you describe with these popular boys. Heck, I'm sure the popular girls at your school bragged about their bedroom fun (or the equivalent to it) and no one told them that it was wrong. I have no doubt politics and selfishness were involved at that school you went to. The church itself doesn't promote that kind of behavior, and that's where I'm not understanding where you're getting this idea where the church is really sitting on women about this more than men because it's clearly not doing that.

You blew off what I said about women's studies, entertainment, and pop culture and how they HEAVILY favor women, especially when it comes to sex. The church is trying to say to Christian women "hey, you need to be careful not to fall for this because society is trying to lead you astray." This isn't to say that this doesn't apply to men. It's EQUALLY as important to men as it is to women. However, in the society that favors women over men (well, normal men), the church has to keep reminding you guys, more so then men, that just because secular people say it's okay, it doesn't mean it's in line with what God wants from you.

Now, I mentioned about you not understanding what it's like being a normal guy and what to get into that. As normal man myself, it's difficult to get ANY sort of attention from women, Christian or not. We hear women want good guys that will love them, be there for them, and stand up for them when they're in need. It all sounds great, and there are women out there that actually want good men, so there's the disclaimer. But, nowadays it seems like more than half the time whenever good men step forward and asks them out, women turn them down and try to attract the bad boys, the men they actually want. Putting it simply, they want the Chads. While these women are doing that, we're invisible to them, unless they want attention or resources.

I couldn't tell you how many times I had been flaked, ghosted, made fun of, and lied to, all because I asked out these women. When I do ask them out, or just simply wanted to hang out, I have to choose my words very carefully. Not saying that you never be careful in what you say in situations like that, but when you're a normal guy asking out a woman you're interested in, the words have to be chosen correctly with no slip ups and it has to come out in the right fashion.

I just had a lady the other night, we attend ballroom dance lessons together and we're talking about getting a group together for a trip to a winery. I kind of like her, and would like to know her better for sure but with a group of people we know first so it's not awkward, and I think she also has some interest in me, at least until that night. I asked in case if we can't get anyone else going if she would be okay with she and I going. She said yes, and then I told that I just want to be sure and not make it out to be something else (implicating a date). She said that she was having different thoughts, possibly meaning that she may have thought I was misleading her that my actual intent was to never ask anyone and it would be just her and I. I backtracked a little and gave a tiny explanation that it wasn't what she (possibly) thought. She said basically said "oh okay" and we started talking about something else.

We talked at the end of the night as well and it seemed like all was well. Only thing I'm on edge about is does she think I'm a creep now because of what I said, even though I made it as clear as possible that I prefer the group idea. I don't want that, and to this day it still bothers me when it shouldn't. We talk through dm, but I haven't heard from her in a few days. I'm hoping she's busy and not mad at me. I don't want to lose a friend over something that was harmless but may have came out wrong on my end.

I know that I'm not the only guy in this forum that's been through this, either. When normal single men talk to single women about hanging out, we're walking on eggshells. The Chads have it easy. All they do, without a care in the world, is simply say "hey, wanna go out" and the woman doesn't have a moment's hesitation to yes. She just does it and goes with him. As I implied in my last post, I wish I was making it up, but myself and many other men have literally seen this happen. And these women KNOW these type of men are bad, but they go with them anyway because they think they can mold them in such a way where it's perfection for them.

But then what happens is the women get impregnated by Chad, the guy leaves, and the woman is stuck with the kid and can't get a good guy to commit to them because they told them NO. So if the church seems like that it's being bias and telling women to stay a virgin until marriage, this is why. DON'T FALL FOR BAD MEN. They'll only hurt you in the end and question your faith. There's part 2 of my answer.

 

[JohnDB]

And this is where I push back because I read through your thread again. I stand by what I posted, and no, I'm not taking anything that you said out of context. You clearly don't know what is that normal men go through. Even going through grade school, normal guys don't exhibit the behavior you describe with these popular boys. Heck, I'm sure the popular girls at your school bragged about their bedroom fun (or the equivalent to it) and no one told them that it was wrong. I have no doubt politics and selfishness were involved at that school you went to. The church itself doesn't promote that kind of behavior, and that's where I'm not understanding where you're getting this idea where the church is really sitting on women about this more than men because it's clearly not doing that.

You blew off what I said about women's studies, entertainment, and pop culture and how they HEAVILY favor women, especially when it comes to sex. The church is trying to say to Christian women "hey, you need to be careful not to fall for this because society is trying to lead you astray." This isn't to say that this doesn't apply to men. It's EQUALLY as important to men as it is to women. However, in the society that favors women over men (well, normal men), the church has to keep reminding you guys, more so then men, that just because secular people say it's okay, it doesn't mean it's in line with what God wants from you.

Now, I mentioned about you not understanding what it's like being a normal guy and what to get into that. As normal man myself, it's difficult to get ANY sort of attention from women, Christian or not. We hear women want good guys that will love them, be there for them, and stand up for them when they're in need. It all sounds great, and there are women out there that actually want good men, so there's the disclaimer. But, nowadays it seems like more than half the time whenever good men step forward and asks them out, women turn them down and try to attract the bad boys, the men they actually want. Putting it simply, they want the Chads. While these women are doing that, we're invisible to them, unless they want attention or resources.

I couldn't tell you how many times I had been flaked, ghosted, made fun of, and lied to, all because I asked out these women. When I do ask them out, or just simply wanted to hang out, I have to choose my words very carefully. Not saying that you never be careful in what you say in situations like that, but when you're a normal guy asking out a woman you're interested in, the words have to be chosen correctly with no slip ups and it has to come out in the right fashion.

I just had a lady the other night, we attend ballroom dance lessons together and we're talking about getting a group together for a trip to a winery. I kind of like her, and would like to know her better for sure but with a group of people we know first so it's not awkward, and I think she also has some interest in me, at least until that night. I asked in case if we can't get anyone else going if she would be okay with she and I going. She said yes, and then I told that I just want to be sure and not make it out to be something else (implicating a date). She said that she was having different thoughts, possibly meaning that she may have thought I was misleading her that my actual intent was to never ask anyone and it would be just her and I. I backtracked a little and gave a tiny explanation that it wasn't what she (possibly) thought. She said basically said "oh okay" and we started talking about something else.

We talked at the end of the night as well and it seemed like all was well. Only thing I'm on edge about is does she think I'm a creep now because of what I said, even though I made it as clear as possible that I prefer the group idea. I don't want that, and to this day it still bothers me when it shouldn't. We talk through dm, but I haven't heard from her in a few days. I'm hoping she's busy and not mad at me. I don't want to lose a friend over something that was harmless but may have came out wrong on my end.

I know that I'm not the only guy in this forum that's been through this, either. When normal single men talk to single women about hanging out, we're walking on eggshells. The Chads have it easy. All they do, without a care in the world, is simply say "hey, wanna go out" and the woman doesn't have a moment's hesitation to yes. She just does it and goes with him. As I implied in my last post, I wish I was making it up, but myself and many other men have literally seen this happen. And these women KNOW these type of men are bad, but they go with them anyway because they think they can mold them in such a way where it's perfection for them.

But then what happens is the women get impregnated by Chad, the guy leaves, and the woman is stuck with the kid and can't get a good guy to commit to them because they told them NO. So if the church seems like that it's being bias and telling women to stay a virgin until marriage, this is why. DON'T FALL FOR BAD MEN. They'll only hurt you in the end and question your faith. There's part 2 of my answer.

Just out of curiosity...
Where can a person go ballroom dancing these days?

I've never seen a modern club/restaurant where it happens these days. Not even country clubs have it going on anymore.

 

[Lynx]

And this is where I push back because I read through your thread again. I stand by what I posted, and no, I'm not taking anything that you said out of context. You clearly don't know what is that normal men go through. Even going through grade school, normal guys don't exhibit the behavior you describe with these popular boys. Heck, I'm sure the popular girls at your school bragged about their bedroom fun (or the equivalent to it) and no one told them that it was wrong. I have no doubt politics and selfishness were involved at that school you went to. The church itself doesn't promote that kind of behavior, and that's where I'm not understanding where you're getting this idea where the church is really sitting on women about this more than men because it's clearly not doing that.

You blew off what I said about women's studies, entertainment, and pop culture and how they HEAVILY favor women, especially when it comes to sex. The church is trying to say to Christian women "hey, you need to be careful not to fall for this because society is trying to lead you astray." This isn't to say that this doesn't apply to men. It's EQUALLY as important to men as it is to women. However, in the society that favors women over men (well, normal men), the church has to keep reminding you guys, more so then men, that just because secular people say it's okay, it doesn't mean it's in line with what God wants from you.

Now, I mentioned about you not understanding what it's like being a normal guy and what to get into that. As normal man myself, it's difficult to get ANY sort of attention from women, Christian or not. We hear women want good guys that will love them, be there for them, and stand up for them when they're in need. It all sounds great, and there are women out there that actually want good men, so there's the disclaimer. But, nowadays it seems like more than half the time whenever good men step forward and asks them out, women turn them down and try to attract the bad boys, the men they actually want. Putting it simply, they want the Chads. While these women are doing that, we're invisible to them, unless they want attention or resources.

I couldn't tell you how many times I had been flaked, ghosted, made fun of, and lied to, all because I asked out these women. When I do ask them out, or just simply wanted to hang out, I have to choose my words very carefully. Not saying that you never be careful in what you say in situations like that, but when you're a normal guy asking out a woman you're interested in, the words have to be chosen correctly with no slip ups and it has to come out in the right fashion.

I just had a lady the other night, we attend ballroom dance lessons together and we're talking about getting a group together for a trip to a winery. I kind of like her, and would like to know her better for sure but with a group of people we know first so it's not awkward, and I think she also has some interest in me, at least until that night. I asked in case if we can't get anyone else going if she would be okay with she and I going. She said yes, and then I told that I just want to be sure and not make it out to be something else (implicating a date). She said that she was having different thoughts, possibly meaning that she may have thought I was misleading her that my actual intent was to never ask anyone and it would be just her and I. I backtracked a little and gave a tiny explanation that it wasn't what she (possibly) thought. She said basically said "oh okay" and we started talking about something else.

We talked at the end of the night as well and it seemed like all was well. Only thing I'm on edge about is does she think I'm a creep now because of what I said, even though I made it as clear as possible that I prefer the group idea. I don't want that, and to this day it still bothers me when it shouldn't. We talk through dm, but I haven't heard from her in a few days. I'm hoping she's busy and not mad at me. I don't want to lose a friend over something that was harmless but may have came out wrong on my end.

I know that I'm not the only guy in this forum that's been through this, either. When normal single men talk to single women about hanging out, we're walking on eggshells. The Chads have it easy. All they do, without a care in the world, is simply say "hey, wanna go out" and the woman doesn't have a moment's hesitation to yes. She just does it and goes with him. As I implied in my last post, I wish I was making it up, but myself and many other men have literally seen this happen. And these women KNOW these type of men are bad, but they go with them anyway because they think they can mold them in such a way where it's perfection for them.

But then what happens is the women get impregnated by Chad, the guy leaves, and the woman is stuck with the kid and can't get a good guy to commit to them because they told them NO. So if the church seems like that it's being bias and telling women to stay a virgin until marriage, this is why. DON'T FALL FOR BAD MEN. They'll only hurt you in the end and question your faith. There's part 2 of my answer.

You keep saying you are a normal guy. For the ladies' sake I sure hope you are not normal.

I could tell you why you have been flaked, ghosted, lied to and so on, but you would not believe me.

Oh shoot, why not try it anyway. They keep ghosting you because you are so stuck on how much advantage society gives women. You keep on and on and on about it. No woman wants to stick around somebody who's always complaining about how unfair society is toward poor little men.

See? I told you that you wouldn't believe me. It is true though.

 

[herkamer63]

And I forgot to point out, there have been MANY Christian women that have fallen victim to this. I hope someday I get married to a woman who has given her life to Christ and had not committed adultery. I understand if they're divorced due to a man being abusive and/or unfaithful and had kids with him, and I also understand if the husband died. I would even go as far as saying I understand if another man forced himself onto the woman and impregnating her. There are circumstances which make those women the exception. But, and I think speak for most men here, I don't want to be with someone who had slept with multiple men. Only time I possibly would is if they admit to their wrongdoing, give their life to Christ, attend church, and put that horrible lifestyle behind them for good. Even then, that's going to take a lot of work to convince me. So to you women out there, if you a good man, be with the good man. You know who they are, allow them to take you out.

 

[seoulsearch]

And this is where I push back because I read through your thread again. I stand by what I posted, and no, I'm not taking anything that you said out of context. You clearly don't know what is that normal men go through. Even going through grade school, normal guys don't exhibit the behavior you describe with these popular boys. Heck, I'm sure the popular girls at your school bragged about their bedroom fun (or the equivalent to it) and no one told them that it was wrong. I have no doubt politics and selfishness were involved at that school you went to. The church itself doesn't promote that kind of behavior, and that's where I'm not understanding where you're getting this idea where the church is really sitting on women about this more than men because it's clearly not doing that.

You blew off what I said about women's studies, entertainment, and pop culture and how they HEAVILY favor women, especially when it comes to sex. The church is trying to say to Christian women "hey, you need to be careful not to fall for this because society is trying to lead you astray." This isn't to say that this doesn't apply to men. It's EQUALLY as important to men as it is to women. However, in the society that favors women over men (well, normal men), the church has to keep reminding you guys, more so then men, that just because secular people say it's okay, it doesn't mean it's in line with what God wants from you.

Now, I mentioned about you not understanding what it's like being a normal guy and what to get into that. As normal man myself, it's difficult to get ANY sort of attention from women, Christian or not. We hear women want good guys that will love them, be there for them, and stand up for them when they're in need. It all sounds great, and there are women out there that actually want good men, so there's the disclaimer. But, nowadays it seems like more than half the time whenever good men step forward and asks them out, women turn them down and try to attract the bad boys, the men they actually want. Putting it simply, they want the Chads. While these women are doing that, we're invisible to them, unless they want attention or resources.

I couldn't tell you how many times I had been flaked, ghosted, made fun of, and lied to, all because I asked out these women. When I do ask them out, or just simply wanted to hang out, I have to choose my words very carefully. Not saying that you never be careful in what you say in situations like that, but when you're a normal guy asking out a woman you're interested in, the words have to be chosen correctly with no slip ups and it has to come out in the right fashion.

I just had a lady the other night, we attend ballroom dance lessons together and we're talking about getting a group together for a trip to a winery. I kind of like her, and would like to know her better for sure but with a group of people we know first so it's not awkward, and I think she also has some interest in me, at least until that night. I asked in case if we can't get anyone else going if she would be okay with she and I going. She said yes, and then I told that I just want to be sure and not make it out to be something else (implicating a date). She said that she was having different thoughts, possibly meaning that she may have thought I was misleading her that my actual intent was to never ask anyone and it would be just her and I. I backtracked a little and gave a tiny explanation that it wasn't what she (possibly) thought. She said basically said "oh okay" and we started talking about something else.

We talked at the end of the night as well and it seemed like all was well. Only thing I'm on edge about is does she think I'm a creep now because of what I said, even though I made it as clear as possible that I prefer the group idea. I don't want that, and to this day it still bothers me when it shouldn't. We talk through dm, but I haven't heard from her in a few days. I'm hoping she's busy and not mad at me. I don't want to lose a friend over something that was harmless but may have came out wrong on my end.

I know that I'm not the only guy in this forum that's been through this, either. When normal single men talk to single women about hanging out, we're walking on eggshells. The Chads have it easy. All they do, without a care in the world, is simply say "hey, wanna go out" and the woman doesn't have a moment's hesitation to yes. She just does it and goes with him. As I implied in my last post, I wish I was making it up, but myself and many other men have literally seen this happen. And these women KNOW these type of men are bad, but they go with them anyway because they think they can mold them in such a way where it's perfection for them.

But then what happens is the women get impregnated by Chad, the guy leaves, and the woman is stuck with the kid and can't get a good guy to commit to them because they told them NO. So if the church seems like that it's being bias and telling women to stay a virgin until marriage, this is why. DON'T FALL FOR BAD MEN. They'll only hurt you in the end and question your faith. There's part 2 of my answer.

I don't bother answering everything you say because from what I've read in your posts around the forum, you only take other people's accounts into consideration when they match up with your own or when you agree with them.

At that point, your mind is made up, my mind is made up, and there's no further discussion between us to be had, which is fine.

You're getting a fair opportunity to voice your opinions on the matter, and that's all that counts. The readers will will identify and listen the most with the posters they can relate to, so it's always good to have a variety of people sharing their experiences.

I wish you all the best.

 

[herkamer63]

Just out of curiosity...
Where can a person go ballroom dancing these days?

I've never seen a modern club/restaurant where it happens these days. Not even country clubs have it going on anymore.

If you go to a winery with entertainment or a brewery, or just a place that has a decent size floor with entertainment. Ballroom studios will even hold their own events as well. The lady have some interest in and I were looking at some potentials, and I think I have an idea of where to go. One place in particular I was at, I was showing a few women how to do it. We had a lot of fun! If you're interested in learning, I HIGHLY recommend taking lessons. It's fun, good exercise, a great confidence booster, and improves discipline.

 

[herkamer63]

Just out of curiosity...
Where can a person go ballroom dancing these days?

I've never seen a modern club/restaurant where it happens these days. Not even country clubs have it going on anymore.

BTW, thanks for having my back. I don't think these guys understand the struggle of being single and in the dating world. Now, it's tempting asking out that one woman I mentioned that I met in my ballroom dancing, but I'm REALLY trying to stay single for now. I don't know if she's a flirt or if she actually likes me, but I would feel better if she actually does have that feeling towards me she would let me know in a way where it's perfectly clear. I'm sure you had the same experience too, but I'm not good at interpreting whether or not what women are trying to communicate in situations like this. That Lynx guy it is that's on here is probably worse at it than I am. Honestly, him trolling me is a clear example of someone who really doesn't know what's really happening to men today. Anyway, I appreciate you understanding. Thanks man!

 

[Gideon300]

Hey Everyone,

This thread was inspired by a conversation with a friend about church culture, as well as reading through some posts here in a thread about The Purity Culture (though I haven't had a chance to watch the video that was shared.)

I grew up in WELS Lutheran schools, and while I can't remember the pastors or teachers ever explicitly saying this (because sex was never talked about except not to have anything to do with it unless you were married,) but my home church had a very strongly implied culture that although abstinence was preached, women in particular were shouldered with the responsibility of making sure nothing improper happened.

I can't remember anyone specifically saying this, but you could definitely feel the air of "GOOD girls put up walls and surround them with barbed wire, electric fences; BAD girls are loose and do all those horrible things that a GOOD girl would NEVER do."

How was this so strongly imprinted without every being specifically stated?

I have often talked about how if a girl became pregnant at my Lutheran high school, the mothers were kept from coming back. In the one case that happened while I was there, the mother could not come back, but the father finished out his time at the school. The mother was heavily condemned amongst the gossiping circles, but I never heard anything about the father.


In a similar fashion, other kids talked about other girls who were supposedly "doing things" with their boyfriends (you always heard about how "bad" the girls were -- never the boys,) and by listening to how the adults talked about single and divorced mothers (which was something very strongly condemned in the underground currents of my home church.) Any girl or woman who was suspected of "immoral behavior" was openly whispered about (I realize this phrase is an oxymoron but it's extremely fitting,) and there was absolutely no mention or judgment of the men involved.

Now, let me be clear in that I am NOT in any way, shape, or form trying to knock the men here.

But as I've said in many other threads, the popular boys at my Lutheran high school were known for bragging about going to the local strip club every weekend, and one openly showed off the condoms he kept in his wallet. But no one seemed to pay any mind to that or ever say anything derogatory about them -- other kids saw them as the cool rebels whom others aspired to be like and be with.

I've always found it to be an intriguing, albeit disturbing phenomenon within even the church culture that women are always seen as the ones to say no, stop anything from going to far, and being responsible for holding the key to the gates of sexual morality. Now I realize that this attitude has a very long social history and culture outside the church as well.

But why is it still like this within the church?

* Why isn't there more emphasis on the equal role of both men and women to remain morally sound and keep things that way? Why does even the church hold on to old-fashioned beliefs that it's mostly the woman's fault if something happens?

Or maybe that's just the church culture I'VE been raised in. If yours has been different, please tell us about it! I would actually be very relieved to hear that I'm in the minority and that everyone else's churches hold both men and women equally responsible.

* In your experience, how much emphasis is put on boys saying "No," "Stop," and "I Won't Do That"?

* Why are women more seriously punished for sexual sins?

Again, I would love to hear examples that counter my own experiences. I grew up listening to church people wagging their tongues about, for example, a divorced mother whose daughter I went to school with, and the women I heard talking about her claimed that the mother had "a revolving door for men." (I was so young at the time that I thought this mean an actual revolving door that was installed into the side of their house.)

I have no idea if this was true or not about the woman's personal life or not, and I'm not sure that the people who talked about her really knew, either.

But I can't recall that I have ever heard anyone in my church environments talk about a single father having a revolving door for women, whether or not it was true.

* Why is this, and what have your experiences been?

* Did God really intend for sexual morality to rest more heavily upon women's shoulders?

* This is NOT meant to be a He Vs. She thread at all -- to me, it's not so much about gender, but rather, what we're taught about the different genders, is it Biblically sound, and how can this be changed if needed?

Good question. In the world, men are often considered to be sexual predators and women the innocent victims. The feminist movement decried this and accused men (with some justification) of wanting only one thing from a woman. So women were treated as sex objects. The absurdity is that women dress far more suggestively than when Germain Greer was ranting and now it is all men's fault that they are attracted to them.

Women do have a lot of say in their conduct. It's interesting that Proverbs has a lot to say about the adulteress and little to say about the man's wrong behaviour. Timothy was also exhorted to flee fornication. So the NT and the OT together covers both male and female wrong behaviour.

I highly recommend Mark Gungor on this subject. He explains why women should not sleep around, not just from a moralising point of view. He could make a fortune as a comedian, using humour to make his points.

 

[Zdenek]

I live in a very secularized place where sex is viewed like eating and virginity and waiting until marriage is not only unheard of but also stigmatized. It does seem like premarital sex is a requirement to access any woman here and that if you don't have it, you are a strange asexual doomed to a lifetime of singleness.

I haven't heard of female virginity being considered an ideal here in any way, everything the opposite, it is even expected for women (and men too) to have multiple sex partners before marriage.

 

[herkamer63]

I don't bother answering everything you say because from what I've read in your posts around the forum, you only take other people's accounts into consideration when they match up with your own or when you agree with them.

At that point, your mind is made up, my mind is made up, and there's no further discussion between us to be had, which is fine.

You're getting a fair opportunity to voice your opinions on the matter, and that's all that counts. The readers will will identify and listen the most with the posters they can relate to, so it's always good to have a variety of people sharing their experiences.

I wish you all the best.

I don't expect you to answer everything I throw out. And let's be honest here, you do it, too, and so do many others on here. I've read previous posts that you put up and it's no different. That's okay, though, because I want you to have opinions. I haven't personally attacked you and I'm not questioning your intelligence. However, I'm giving the other side of the story, in which both men AND women, have been noticing over the past several years that's hardly ever talked about but has actually happened. Whenever someone like me brings it up, I'm treated as if I'm an idiot or a liar. Rest assured, I know what I say is true because I and other men have experienced it.

You have some valid points, so I am reading what you're posting and agreeing with them. But when I gave examples contradict some of the points you made because I believe them to be coming out of a place of not understanding, they're casted down as crazy talk. The only thing I would ask is look up what I'm talking about. I would be more than happy to provide sources, if you'd like. That's reasonable, if you ask me. But if you're not willing to do so, that's your choice. Close minded, but I'll respect your decision.

 

[seoulsearch]

I don't expect you to answer everything I throw out. And let's be honest here, you do it, too, and so do many others on here. I've read previous posts that you put up and it's no different. That's okay, though, because I want you to have opinions. I haven't personally attacked you and I'm not questioning your intelligence. However, I'm giving the other side of the story, in which both men AND women, have been noticing over the past several years that's hardly ever talked about but has actually happened. Whenever someone like me brings it up, I'm treated as if I'm an idiot or a liar. Rest assured, I know what I say is true because I and other men have experienced it.

You have some valid points, so I am reading what you're posting and agreeing with them. But when I gave examples contradict some of the points you made because I believe them to be coming out of a place of not understanding, they're casted down as crazy talk. The only thing I would ask is look up what I'm talking about. I would be more than happy to provide sources, if you'd like. That's reasonable, if you ask me. But if you're not willing to do so, that's your choice. Close minded, but I'll respect your decision.

Likewise to you.

 

[TheIndianGirl]

I live in a very secularized place where sex is viewed like eating and virginity and waiting until marriage is not only unheard of but also stigmatized. It does seem like premarital sex is a requirement to access any woman here and that if you don't have it, you are a strange asexual doomed to a lifetime of singleness.

I haven't heard of female virginity being considered an ideal here in any way, everything the opposite, it is even expected for women (and men too) to have multiple sex partners before marriage.

I think modern secular couples care a lot about sexual compatibility, and they want to know this before getting married. They think it is too risky to get married without knowing this first. Well, I think they want to know a person fully first before getting married, which means living together first.