The march of the meat eaters the nut eaters and the law givers
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While you may find imagination beneficial in some ways, I can assure you that sound biblical interpretation is not among them.
From where do you get this idea?
[/QUOTE]Ezekiel could have told the whole of Isreal that the lord commanded me to eat vegitarian food for a whole year and im still alive and even better im still a child of Isreal.[/QUOTE]
That's your error: God didn't tell all Israel to eat vegetarian food. He told Ezekiel only. He said nothing to Ezekiel about telling the rest of Israel to eat only plants. "Could have" is speculation, not interpretation. Speculation is irrelevant.
Even today, God commands individuals to do certain things; those commands are not for the whole church. Many errors are propagated among Christians because they mistake God's personal guidance as instruction to all Christians.
From where do you get this idea?
[/QUOTE]Ezekiel could have told the whole of Isreal that the lord commanded me to eat vegitarian food for a whole year and im still alive and even better im still a child of Isreal.[/QUOTE]
That's your error: God didn't tell all Israel to eat vegetarian food. He told Ezekiel only. He said nothing to Ezekiel about telling the rest of Israel to eat only plants. "Could have" is speculation, not interpretation. Speculation is irrelevant.
Even today, God commands individuals to do certain things; those commands are not for the whole church. Many errors are propagated among Christians because they mistake God's personal guidance as instruction to all Christians.
.
I was expecting you to say imagination can not be sound doctrine. I would say tho when you have none or lack of imagination because of only seeing doctrine one way it may lead to understanding doctrine one way and one could easily be misled because of lack of imagination. Then of cause sadly there is the nullified imagination... Understanding also that imagination can also belong to someone who is highly intelligent could also lead to sound doctrine. To truly understand how beautiful an imagination can be you would need to be of sound doctrine because a nullified imagination will only imagine one way and even become Jealous of someone else beautiful imagination... Imagine that no no no how could you? You may say..
Well seeing as the world looks to have been created from a beautiful imagination of high intelligence it is possible that somebodies else imagination would want to destroy that.
Sadly yes and sadly many people will help that to happen through lack of imagination,
how ever you could say well imagination can imagine all sorts of things and so imagination is a type of dreaming not a reality and we need reality for sound doctrin,,, but that's not completely true because imagination is supposed to imagine all sorts of things and with good cause too.. when it comes to scientific evidence we do have imagine whether it is true.. scientists have now found evidence that are earliest ancestors where indeed vegitarian and when you examine the bible you see our first ancestors adam and eve where also vegitarian and then suddenly it all changed... now the purpose of this thread is to find out why that would need to change.. which involves using your imagination which is linked to your mind and brain, which i take you understand this. which im sure your imagination is quite intelligent as i dont think your stupid.. so quit your cleaver comments.
Now we are also dealing with an adversary the devil who throughout scripture has made people imagine all sorts of stuff... why is this well the bible does say the devil or devils can cause people to dream illusinate become deluded. and believe a lie.
Don't you find it funny that the innocent animals like cattle that don't kill people could be killed but not animals that kill people. but at first you could kill the animals that kill people and eat them ?
Don you also think it is funny that People where killing cattle that provided food for them like milk cheese. or clothing like wool. there was no need to kill them and God would have known there was no need to kill them. so why allow killing all animals then change that to stop killing animals that kill and kill the innocent animals only ?..
I was expecting you to say imagination can not be sound doctrine. I would say tho when you have none or lack of imagination because of only seeing doctrine one way it may lead to understanding doctrine one way and one could easily be misled because of lack of imagination. Then of cause sadly there is the nullified imagination... Understanding also that imagination can also belong to someone who is highly intelligent could also lead to sound doctrine. To truly understand how beautiful an imagination can be you would need to be of sound doctrine because a nullified imagination will only imagine one way and even become Jealous of someone else beautiful imagination... Imagine that no no no how could you? You may say..
Well seeing as the world looks to have been created from a beautiful imagination of high intelligence it is possible that somebodies else imagination would want to destroy that.
Sadly yes and sadly many people will help that to happen through lack of imagination,
how ever you could say well imagination can imagine all sorts of things and so imagination is a type of dreaming not a reality and we need reality for sound doctrin,,, but that's not completely true because imagination is supposed to imagine all sorts of things and with good cause too.. when it comes to scientific evidence we do have imagine whether it is true.. scientists have now found evidence that are earliest ancestors where indeed vegitarian and when you examine the bible you see our first ancestors adam and eve where also vegitarian and then suddenly it all changed... now the purpose of this thread is to find out why that would need to change.. which involves using your imagination which is linked to your mind and brain, which i take you understand this. which im sure your imagination is quite intelligent as i dont think your stupid.. so quit your cleaver comments.
Now we are also dealing with an adversary the devil who throughout scripture has made people imagine all sorts of stuff... why is this well the bible does say the devil or devils can cause people to dream illusinate become deluded. and believe a lie.
Don't you find it funny that the innocent animals like cattle that don't kill people could be killed but not animals that kill people. but at first you could kill the animals that kill people and eat them ?
Don you also think it is funny that People where killing cattle that provided food for them like milk cheese. or clothing like wool. there was no need to kill them and God would have known there was no need to kill them. so why allow killing all animals then change that to stop killing animals that kill and kill the innocent animals only ?..
Yes i hope so to, ok well i dont want to get of to a wrong foot with you so i do see many spiritual aspects to this conversation. One being the spiritual welfare of animals and innocent lambs cows and goats to many many more grass grazing animals as well as new born lambs. However im not in any ways going to Judge those people who eat meat, im sure people here still love animals
Firstly you asked me if there was spiritual meaning to my previous post. the first spiritual meaning is the devide of two religous groups those that where in the safe arms of the father and those who where in the wilderness. Two completey different sides one worshipping a spiritual enemy and being miss led the other worshiping the spirit of the lord and recieving good guidance. One group could have been holy vegan the other could have believed they where a holy meat eater of all meat. befor the the great noah flood.
The cain clan who was in the wilderness could have been getting decieved by a devil claiming to be God. This satan could have said you may not kill the animals that kill people but you may kill the animal that feed people with milk and cheese and cloth people with there renewable fair. so that we can destroy the people of Isreal as they will not eat and by this we will drive them out and you must destroy there crops.
Now in eziekiel 4:9 God says to eziekiel eat only vegi food that i will show you how to prepare for the whole year and by this we will drive out the cain clan..
So God was gracious to eziekiel and gave him the recipee for preparing veggi food and grain for a whole year... This is how many wars have been won and lost befor by cutting of the food supply.
THis is probably the real reason why farmers stoored there grain too as well as drought etc..
This realy is a about a deeper spiritual meaning to those who save and those who take everything there and then on the spot.
Now the riches to save up was food not money for the bad times that where to come and God gave plans on how to store grain not meat..
Firstly you asked me if there was spiritual meaning to my previous post. the first spiritual meaning is the devide of two religous groups those that where in the safe arms of the father and those who where in the wilderness. Two completey different sides one worshipping a spiritual enemy and being miss led the other worshiping the spirit of the lord and recieving good guidance. One group could have been holy vegan the other could have believed they where a holy meat eater of all meat. befor the the great noah flood.
The cain clan who was in the wilderness could have been getting decieved by a devil claiming to be God. This satan could have said you may not kill the animals that kill people but you may kill the animal that feed people with milk and cheese and cloth people with there renewable fair. so that we can destroy the people of Isreal as they will not eat and by this we will drive them out and you must destroy there crops.
Now in eziekiel 4:9 God says to eziekiel eat only vegi food that i will show you how to prepare for the whole year and by this we will drive out the cain clan..
So God was gracious to eziekiel and gave him the recipee for preparing veggi food and grain for a whole year... This is how many wars have been won and lost befor by cutting of the food supply.
THis is probably the real reason why farmers stoored there grain too as well as drought etc..
This realy is a about a deeper spiritual meaning to those who save and those who take everything there and then on the spot.
Now the riches to save up was food not money for the bad times that where to come and God gave plans on how to store grain not meat..
I LOVE this bread!! Especially the low sodium version.
I have felt the best ever in my life as a vegetarian. I eat very few dairy products, just a small amount of low sugar yogurt. I also eat eggs, but no fish...no other meats. I eat a ton of varieties of veggies, oats, almonds, (I have not hit a bad one yet
) I do love them roasted and unsalted. I stay away from cashews because I think they trigger migraines for me. There is a lot of hidden protein in vegetables though.
I love to look at what happened to Daniel when he just ate vegetables and water and God really sustained him in that place. God sustained the Israelites on only manna, but HE also sustained Elijah with water from a brook, along with bread and meat brought to him by ravens. Oh, another story was the widow who had just enough oil in her jar each day to make another loaf of bread. God is the one who is supplying in all of these instances. He is our sustainer. I'm so grateful to Him for providing such a wide variety of things to eat that give us energy, and for His creative work to make each one of us so gloriously different.
I have felt the best ever in my life as a vegetarian. I eat very few dairy products, just a small amount of low sugar yogurt. I also eat eggs, but no fish...no other meats. I eat a ton of varieties of veggies, oats, almonds, (I have not hit a bad one yet
) I do love them roasted and unsalted. I stay away from cashews because I think they trigger migraines for me. There is a lot of hidden protein in vegetables though. I love to look at what happened to Daniel when he just ate vegetables and water and God really sustained him in that place. God sustained the Israelites on only manna, but HE also sustained Elijah with water from a brook, along with bread and meat brought to him by ravens. Oh, another story was the widow who had just enough oil in her jar each day to make another loaf of bread. God is the one who is supplying in all of these instances. He is our sustainer. I'm so grateful to Him for providing such a wide variety of things to eat that give us energy, and for His creative work to make each one of us so gloriously different.
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I LOVE this bread!! Especially the low sodium version.
I have felt the best ever in my life as a vegetarian. I eat very few dairy products, just a small amount of low sugar yogurt. I also eat eggs, but no fish...no other meats. I eat a ton of varieties of veggies, oats, almonds, (I have not hit a bad one yet ) I do love them roasted and unsalted. I stay away from cashews because I think they trigger migraines for me. There is a lot of hidden protein in vegetables though.
I love to look at what happened to Daniel when he just ate vegetables and water and God really sustained him in that place. God sustained the Israelites on only manna, but HE also sustained Elijah with water from a brook, along with bread and meat brought to him by ravens. Oh, another story was the widow who had just enough oil in her jar each day to make another loaf of bread. God is the one who is supplying in all of these instances. He is our sustainer. I'm so grateful to Him for providing such a wide variety of things to eat that give us energy, and for His creative work to make each one of us so gloriously different.
I have felt the best ever in my life as a vegetarian. I eat very few dairy products, just a small amount of low sugar yogurt. I also eat eggs, but no fish...no other meats. I eat a ton of varieties of veggies, oats, almonds, (I have not hit a bad one yet
) I do love them roasted and unsalted. I stay away from cashews because I think they trigger migraines for me. There is a lot of hidden protein in vegetables though.I love to look at what happened to Daniel when he just ate vegetables and water and God really sustained him in that place. God sustained the Israelites on only manna, but HE also sustained Elijah with water from a brook, along with bread and meat brought to him by ravens. Oh, another story was the widow who had just enough oil in her jar each day to make another loaf of bread. God is the one who is supplying in all of these instances. He is our sustainer. I'm so grateful to Him for providing such a wide variety of things to eat that give us energy, and for His creative work to make each one of us so gloriously different.
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I still dont see how you come to that conclusion from reading ezekiel 3:9 .
Ezekiel 3:9
9I will make your forehead like a diamond, harder than flint. Do not be afraid of them or dismayed at their presence, even though they are a rebellious house.” 10“Son of man,” He added, “listen carefully to all the words I speak to you, and take them to heart.…
11 Go now to your people in exile and speak to them. Say to them, ‘This is what the Sovereign Lord says,’ whether they listen or fail to listen.”
You know @Dino246 you should read this to as obviously 4:9 is for the whole of Isreal. when you read the context of 3:11
oK @justbyfaith do you think it is a prank because your having a hard time believing God could make your mind as strong as a diamond or is it something else ?.
God created man from dust,, but the dust was created from light,, oh and so was diamonds..
it would not be inpossible to believe that a human mind could have a bit of diamond in it too would it ?.
Maybe you should explain why you think that is a prank.
Ezekiel 3:9
9I will make your forehead like a diamond, harder than flint. Do not be afraid of them or dismayed at their presence, even though they are a rebellious house.” 10“Son of man,” He added, “listen carefully to all the words I speak to you, and take them to heart.…
11 Go now to your people in exile and speak to them. Say to them, ‘This is what the Sovereign Lord says,’ whether they listen or fail to listen.”
You know @Dino246 you should read this to as obviously 4:9 is for the whole of Isreal. when you read the context of 3:11
oK @justbyfaith do you think it is a prank because your having a hard time believing God could make your mind as strong as a diamond or is it something else ?.
God created man from dust,, but the dust was created from light,, oh and so was diamonds..
it would not be inpossible to believe that a human mind could have a bit of diamond in it too would it ?.
Maybe you should explain why you think that is a prank.
I LOVE this bread!! Especially the low sodium version.
I have felt the best ever in my life as a vegetarian. I eat very few dairy products, just a small amount of low sugar yogurt. I also eat eggs, but no fish...no other meats. I eat a ton of varieties of veggies, oats, almonds, (I have not hit a bad one yet ) I do love them roasted and unsalted. I stay away from cashews because I think they trigger migraines for me. There is a lot of hidden protein in vegetables though.
I love to look at what happened to Daniel when he just ate vegetables and water and God really sustained him in that place. God sustained the Israelites on only manna, but HE also sustained Elijah with water from a brook, along with bread and meat brought to him by ravens. Oh, another story was the widow who had just enough oil in her jar each day to make another loaf of bread. God is the one who is supplying in all of these instances. He is our sustainer. I'm so grateful to Him for providing such a wide variety of things to eat that give us energy, and for His creative work to make each one of us so gloriously different.
I have felt the best ever in my life as a vegetarian. I eat very few dairy products, just a small amount of low sugar yogurt. I also eat eggs, but no fish...no other meats. I eat a ton of varieties of veggies, oats, almonds, (I have not hit a bad one yet
) I do love them roasted and unsalted. I stay away from cashews because I think they trigger migraines for me. There is a lot of hidden protein in vegetables though.I love to look at what happened to Daniel when he just ate vegetables and water and God really sustained him in that place. God sustained the Israelites on only manna, but HE also sustained Elijah with water from a brook, along with bread and meat brought to him by ravens. Oh, another story was the widow who had just enough oil in her jar each day to make another loaf of bread. God is the one who is supplying in all of these instances. He is our sustainer. I'm so grateful to Him for providing such a wide variety of things to eat that give us energy, and for His creative work to make each one of us so gloriously different.
All food is kinda like nuclear energy for us.. I've just nuked a homemade potato waffle with rice flour and mixed veg with some peanuts,, it's a good way to make gluten-free egg free potatoes waffle which i absolutely love.. I also got that dish to exactly 500 calories too with roughly 15 grams of protein.. I think 500 calories and 15 grams of protein for each dish 3 times a day for each meal is a really good burst of nuclear energy for our body lol.. We do have to be nuked for the battle ahead you know.
Ive just Got nukes all day long lol and i know how to sprout more nukes at home..
Ive got nukes multiplying everywhere. Yes i believe that sometimes they have been situations where one of God children had no choice but to eat meat to survive. But was that the preferred food that God wanted for us to eat ?.. The story of the raven feeding Elijah both bread and meat, have you ever looked at that sentence in a spiritual sence ? The bread as Jesus said represents the spiritual light from heaven that fell in the desert and the body of Christ and the light that lives in us and for us. And the meat represented what exactly ?. See I've understood that the raven flew into Noah ark, and flew out of Noah arks and returned with nothing.. Then the dove flew in and returned with something.. Two birds one returns with nothing then the next something.. What are we being fed there ?.. What did the raven fly in with in the first place did the raven fly in with nothing then fly out as a dove and return as a dove with something. What Where we being fed from both the raven and the dove. Or were they both the same bird ?. One fed nothing, one fed something.
Did nothing become something ?
Ok thankyou for posting scripture but how do you understand this scripture, because i know others inply it to mean the person who considers food to be unclean is wrong. nothing is unclean untill can also mean can mean unclean.. animals became unclean because animals where easily possessed and they ignored Gods orders to eat only plant food after they became possessed.
The first animal to be possessed was the snake..its seems that the animals where an easy target for spiritual possession. then of cause we have the intension for all of Gods animals including the lion, that one day all animals that are eating meat will one day eat straw.
now why would God want all his meat eating animals to eat straw ?...
well the life as you know is still in the grain. you can take a seed plant it and the seed will still flower years later.. where as dead meat there is only death left in it and no life.
The first animal to be possessed was the snake..its seems that the animals where an easy target for spiritual possession. then of cause we have the intension for all of Gods animals including the lion, that one day all animals that are eating meat will one day eat straw.
now why would God want all his meat eating animals to eat straw ?...
well the life as you know is still in the grain. you can take a seed plant it and the seed will still flower years later.. where as dead meat there is only death left in it and no life.
Very good questions you are asking! I like how you are digging in. I know God has a lot for us to glean from these real life human situations. Actually not exactly super relatable as I can't say I have had anyone like Ahab to ever deal with, but we have all had situations that terrified us to different degrees.
I am not sure what all this raven, bread, flesh, brook stuff meant to Elijah in addition to keeping him sustained. It seems like an unexpected way for God to bring him something to eat. Personally, if there was a bird bringing me a hunk of a carcass I probably would have reacted differently than Elijah did. I would definitely be hoping for a piece of that Ezekiel bread and some sort of fruit! It seems like what happened between God and Elijah was extremely trust building. God was demonstrating care for Elijah in such a raw and tangible way. I also find it fascinating that God was the one who led him to the brook. But shortly thereafter, it dried up. It really does feel "manna-ish". What's also interesting is that the miraculous way of feeding Elijah theme just keeps on going in the next verses when he encounters the widow.
I am not sure what all this raven, bread, flesh, brook stuff meant to Elijah in addition to keeping him sustained. It seems like an unexpected way for God to bring him something to eat. Personally, if there was a bird bringing me a hunk of a carcass I probably would have reacted differently than Elijah did. I would definitely be hoping for a piece of that Ezekiel bread and some sort of fruit!
It seems like what happened between God and Elijah was extremely trust building. God was demonstrating care for Elijah in such a raw and tangible way. I also find it fascinating that God was the one who led him to the brook. But shortly thereafter, it dried up. It really does feel "manna-ish". What's also interesting is that the miraculous way of feeding Elijah theme just keeps on going in the next verses when he encounters the widow."i know others inply it to mean the person who considers food to be unclean is wrong"
I'm always up for investigating other interpretations of scripture, but I'm not sure how anyone would reinterpret Romans 14:14 to mean the opposite of what it explicitly says. If one esteems something to be unclean to that person it is unclean. The relationship between the person and the thing can make it unclean. Paul brings up this concept in a different part of scripture when referencing idols. There is no need to avoid idols, for an idol is nothing in itself, unless it were to tempt someone into idolatry.
Paul also describes that someone of weaker faith that esteems something to be unclean shouldn't be chastised for it. And if anything, others of strong faith that do not see it as unclean should accommodate what one esteems to be unclean when in their company. To give context of what "weak faith" means, Peter walked on water to meet with Jesus and when the waves gave him doubt that he would still stand, Jesus turned to him and said, "O ye, of little faith". Miracles of God require faith, and if a little faith allows one to walk on water, an abundance of faith could cast the top of a mountain into the sea. Noting a "weak" faith in some aspects shouldn't be seen as derisive, but ultimately a relationship with a fellow brother in Christ shouldn't be jeopardised for the sake of partaking in one's preferred food. It is better to give no offence than risk needless transgression for the sake of something that isn't needed.
It is also possible that there are reasons and purposes behind certain things being unclean to certain people. The mechanism of one's perception of something could be a means of God communicating something in some cases.
There are also things that might be conditionally considered unclean until a blessing or prayer sanctifies it. A version used in my family has been: "Come Lord Jesus, be our guest, and let these gifts to us be blessed. Amen." This type of approach addresses many of the OT dietary rules even if we endeavour to observe OT law the phrasing of many of the OT dietary rules are conditional with the phrasing "Don't eat this because it is unclean to you." If it can be made clean, it is acceptable in OT law to eat.
"Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron; Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth. For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving: For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer." - 1 Timothy 4:1-5 KJV
The concept of pigs being unclean solely due to its ability to be possessed is an interesting interpretation, but I would be hesitant to commit to that interpretation without scripture saying that was the case.
If the reference to the snake was a reference to the serpent in the Garden of Eden, it isn't necessarily the case that it was a possession rather than a manifestation.
"The cow will graze with the bear, their young will lie down together, and the lion will eat straw like the ox." - Isaiah 11:7 KJV
If there reference was to the prophesy in Isaiah, there are many possible interpretations. Are we looking at descriptions of literal bears and lions? Or are they metaphors for something else? Even if this is in reference to literal animals no longer eating each carnivorously at the time described, it isn't necessarily an indication that this exists as dietary advice for humans here and now.
But, that said, if you feel that meat is unclean for you to eat, based on Romans 14:14, it is unclean for you. And any brother in Christ would abstain from it in the presence of a fellow brother that esteems it to be unclean.
I'm always up for investigating other interpretations of scripture, but I'm not sure how anyone would reinterpret Romans 14:14 to mean the opposite of what it explicitly says. If one esteems something to be unclean to that person it is unclean. The relationship between the person and the thing can make it unclean. Paul brings up this concept in a different part of scripture when referencing idols. There is no need to avoid idols, for an idol is nothing in itself, unless it were to tempt someone into idolatry.
Paul also describes that someone of weaker faith that esteems something to be unclean shouldn't be chastised for it. And if anything, others of strong faith that do not see it as unclean should accommodate what one esteems to be unclean when in their company. To give context of what "weak faith" means, Peter walked on water to meet with Jesus and when the waves gave him doubt that he would still stand, Jesus turned to him and said, "O ye, of little faith". Miracles of God require faith, and if a little faith allows one to walk on water, an abundance of faith could cast the top of a mountain into the sea. Noting a "weak" faith in some aspects shouldn't be seen as derisive, but ultimately a relationship with a fellow brother in Christ shouldn't be jeopardised for the sake of partaking in one's preferred food. It is better to give no offence than risk needless transgression for the sake of something that isn't needed.
It is also possible that there are reasons and purposes behind certain things being unclean to certain people. The mechanism of one's perception of something could be a means of God communicating something in some cases.
There are also things that might be conditionally considered unclean until a blessing or prayer sanctifies it. A version used in my family has been: "Come Lord Jesus, be our guest, and let these gifts to us be blessed. Amen." This type of approach addresses many of the OT dietary rules even if we endeavour to observe OT law the phrasing of many of the OT dietary rules are conditional with the phrasing "Don't eat this because it is unclean to you." If it can be made clean, it is acceptable in OT law to eat.
"Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron; Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth. For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving: For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer." - 1 Timothy 4:1-5 KJV
The concept of pigs being unclean solely due to its ability to be possessed is an interesting interpretation, but I would be hesitant to commit to that interpretation without scripture saying that was the case.
If the reference to the snake was a reference to the serpent in the Garden of Eden, it isn't necessarily the case that it was a possession rather than a manifestation.
"The cow will graze with the bear, their young will lie down together, and the lion will eat straw like the ox." - Isaiah 11:7 KJV
If there reference was to the prophesy in Isaiah, there are many possible interpretations. Are we looking at descriptions of literal bears and lions? Or are they metaphors for something else? Even if this is in reference to literal animals no longer eating each carnivorously at the time described, it isn't necessarily an indication that this exists as dietary advice for humans here and now.
But, that said, if you feel that meat is unclean for you to eat, based on Romans 14:14, it is unclean for you. And any brother in Christ would abstain from it in the presence of a fellow brother that esteems it to be unclean.