The Difference between Daniel 2 and Daniel 7.

[Marilyn]

Most of the OT addressed ancient Israel and the immediate surroundings. Do you try to make the prophecies about Tyre, Nineveh, or Sodom fit our time? Probably not. So why do you try to make the prophecies about ancient Rome fit our time?

Or, to put it another way, just because you can't see how a prophecy has been fulfilled doesn't mean that it has not been fulfilled.

Or is it NOT Rome which has been judged!

 

[Dino246]

Well since Christians were severely persecuted by the Romans at that time, one can hardly say that they were ruling the Roman empire. The literal, physical and spiritual Kingdom of God on earth is still in the future (after the Second Coming). Right now Satan is controlling the world as never before, and even fooling Christians through fear-mongering.

Agreed. However, Daniel 2 says nothing of the rock bringing about a "literal, physical" kingdom; Christ initiated the kingdom of God on earth, and made it clear that it wasn't "of this world".

 

[Dino246]

Or is it NOT Rome which has been judged!

I'm sorry, I don't understand what you're saying/asking.

 

[Marilyn]

I'm sorry, I don't understand what you're saying/asking.

You say that Dan. 7 is about historic kingdoms and the last one is the Lord`s, a spiritual kingdom.
So yes we agree that the Lord is ruling over a spiritual kingdom in His believers. However Daniel 7 is NOT talking about that.

`Then the kingdom and dominions and the greatness of the kingdoms UNDER the whole heaven, shall be given to the people, the saints (Israel) of the Most High,...` (Dan. 7: 27)

Note the `s` on dominions and kingdoms, plus UNDER the whole heaven. That is all referring to physical kingdoms, and not ONE spiritual kingdom.

 

[Dino246]

You say that Dan. 7 is about historic kingdoms and the last one is the Lord`s, a spiritual kingdom.
So yes we agree that the Lord is ruling over a spiritual kingdom in His believers. However Daniel 7 is NOT talking about that.

`Then the kingdom and dominions and the greatness of the kingdoms UNDER the whole heaven, shall be given to the people, the saints (Israel) of the Most High,...` (Dan. 7: 27)

Note the `s` on dominions and kingdoms, plus UNDER the whole heaven. That is all referring to physical kingdoms, and not ONE spiritual kingdom.

Daniel 2 mentions the kingdom of God. I didn't say that Daniel 7 mentions it. However, I do believe that Daniel 2 and 7 are discussing the same four human kingdoms.

 

[Marilyn]

Daniel 2 mentions the kingdom of God. I didn't say that Daniel 7 mentions it. However, I do believe that Daniel 2 and 7 are discussing the same four human kingdoms.

So...if the great beasts/kingdoms are dealt with at the time of the Lord setting up His physical rulership over the `dominionS and kingdomS of the WHOLE EARTH, then we know what time frame we are looking at - contemporary to that event.

 

[Dino246]

So...if the great beasts/kingdoms are dealt with at the time of the Lord setting up His physical rulership over the `dominionS and kingdomS of the WHOLE EARTH, then we know what time frame we are looking at - contemporary to that event.

To which verses are you referring? I don't see "whole earth" in Daniel 2.

 

[Marilyn]

To which verses are you referring? I don't see "whole earth" in Daniel 2.

Daniel 7: 27 in relation to the 4 beast kingdoms.

 

[Nehemiah6]

However, Daniel 2 says nothing of the rock bringing about a "literal, physical" kingdom;

How about Daniel 7?

13 I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of Man [Christ] came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days [God the Father], and they brought him near before him. 14 And there was given him [Christ] dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed... 27 And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him.

It could not be any plainer. "Under the whole heaven" means "upon the whole earth". And "all peoples, nations, and languages" means absolutely all humanity. This is a literal, physical, and eternal (everlasting) Kingdom on earth, and all human beings on earth at that time will obey and serve Christ. At the same time, those within the Church ("the saints of the Most High") will be kings and priests, and involved with the governance of these nations.

Christ is represented as the Rock or Stone in Daniel 2, and He called Himself "the Stone which the builders rejected". But He is the Rock upon which the Church is built (contrary to Roman Catholic teaching).

 

[Dino246]

Daniel 7: 27 in relation to the 4 beast kingdoms.

How about Daniel 7?

To both of you: consider Isaiah 61. Jesus read verse 1 and part of verse 2, and ended by saying, "Today, this is fulfilled in your hearing." He didn't finish verse 2 because that would be fulfilled later.

If we follow the reasoning you both are using, verse 2 must be fulfilled in its entirety at the same time verse 1 is fulfilled. Yet that is not what happened. God is free to fulfill His prophecy in His way and in His time.

There is no need for Daniel 7:27 to be fulfilled at the same time as the preceding verses for it all to be properly fulfilled. My interpretation stands.

 

[Marilyn]

To both of you: consider Isaiah 61. Jesus read verse 1 and part of verse 2, and ended by saying, "Today, this is fulfilled in your hearing." He didn't finish verse 2 because that would be fulfilled later.

If we follow the reasoning you both are using, verse 2 must be fulfilled in its entirety at the same time verse 1 is fulfilled. Yet that is not what happened. God is free to fulfill His prophecy in His way and in His time.

There is no need for Daniel 7:27 to be fulfilled at the same time as the preceding verses for it all to be properly fulfilled. My interpretation stands.

I also consider Is. 61: second part of verse 2 as to the future - `the day of vengeance of the Lord.`

However in Dan. 7 we read that the fourth beast/kingdom is slain while the other 3 have been given an extension of life. Thus they are in the time of God setting up His kingdom over the kingdoms of the whole earth. (Dan. 7: 11, 12, & 27)

 

[godskidisfree]

The Different between Daniel 2 & Daniel 7.

These two chapters contain great insight into what God is doing in these times of the end of the Gentiles Ruling the world.

Daniel 2 reveals a Great Image that symbolises the whole of the Gentile`s rulership by 5 World Rulers. Four world Rulers have come and gone. Their governments have been found wanting and God dealt with them. They were - Babylon, Medes & Persians, Greece and Rome. We do not see these governments anymore and God does not revive those people that ruled.

The last world ruler has yet to emerge. When it does it will be a divided kingdom, and the last before God sets up His kingdom rule through Israel.



Daniel 7 on the other hand reveals great powers that arise one at a time just before God sets up His kingdom rule. These great powers continue all at the same time till finally the last one gains power over the others and becomes the world Ruler. This last one matches the `divided kingdom` of Daniel 2.

Thus God has given us an overview of the times of the Gentiles ruling the world, (Dan. 2) and then also the great powers heading up to the final Gentile world ruler.

Knowing the difference enables one to clearly see what is happening in our world today. However those who confuse the two chapters are always confused and conjecturing about what is happening.



So let`s discuss how this knowledge helps us to see clearly the road to Global Government by these great powers.

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Hi montana,

Thank you for your view. I see you have interpreted the kingdoms as `ways of operating.` That is interesting for Daniel 7 does describe these beastly kingdoms as to their behavior - beastly with detail.

Note however that God says that the beasts are kingdoms, meaning Political, not religious. (Dan. 7: 23)

`the fourth beast shall be a fourth kingdom on earth, which shall be different from all other kingdoms, and it shall devour the whole earth, trample it and break it in pieces.`` (Dan. 7: 23)

You say the first beastly kingdom represent human religion. A kingdom is Political. Also remember that the great whore rides the final beast. She is religious but the beast/kingdom is Political.

I do agree with your thought that Islam lays a part in the final Gentile Government.

So what about those controlling the world now - the G 7/8, G 20 & UN. Any thoughts on those?

I didn't claim that it all happened at 70 AD. Jesus set up His eternal kingdom beginning around 30 AD. His kingdom is not of this world.


I did show it with Scripture in my initial post. Daniel 2:40-41; the fourth kingdom is divided. There is no human kingdom after that in the vision and explanation.

I find this subject interesting, and to add I am actually presently taking a 8 month class on the study of Daniel. Did you know that the book of Daniel was not corner graphically written or written in order? the order is 1,2,3,4,7,8,5,9,6,10,11,12. the Chiastic structure found in greek literature is Daniel 2 and Daniel 7, Daniel 3 and Daniel 6, Daniel 4 and Daniel 5.

 

[LactoseIntolerant]

IOW only Hebrew and Greek scholars may interpret Scripture. How absurd.

An english translation is already exegeted. It is already interpreted at the most basic level. Thus you are drinking milk, not seeking the truth.

 

[LactoseIntolerant]

I honestly don't know what you're trying to say. Getting irritated about it isn't going to help at all.

Not irritated at all. When a refutation are just snide remarks, I assume it is effectively the end of the conversation. There is no need to further delve in the hebrew or greek as the nuance in those languages will be lost on you.
Proverbs 17:14 To start a quarrel is to release a flood; so abandon the dispute before it breaks out.
Good luck to you.

 

[Dino246]

Not irritated at all. When a refutation are just snide remarks, I assume it is effectively the end of the conversation. There is no need to further delve in the hebrew or greek as the nuance in those languages will be lost on you.
Proverbs 17:14 To start a quarrel is to release a flood; so abandon the dispute before it breaks out.
Good luck to you.

I notice that you included a snide remark in your post. I'll leave you to your hypocrisy.

 

[LactoseIntolerant]

Hi LI,

I do find your comments rather full of strange interpretations that are not scriptural. And God does not let mankind blow itself up.

Now as to the 10 kings. They are of the Federation/kingdom of the final Gentile Global Government.

1. The leader is the `Assyrian,` from the area of Iraq & Syria. (Isa. 31: 8)
2. He is known as the King of the north, (of Israel - Iraq & Syria) (Dan. 11: 40)
3. His center of government is Babylon in Iraq. (Rev. 18, Zech. 5: 5 - 11. note: Shinar is in Iraq where the Babel tower was built.) Babylon is at present being rebuilt by the USA & the UN.

The 10 kings are -

3 - Iraq, Syria & Jordan. (These were divided up and controlled by France and Britain after WW 1, however these colonial `roots` will be pulled up.) It will be the Peace Negotiator`s first power base. From there he goes on to deceive the world. (Dan. 8: 23 - 25, 11: 21)

7 - Kuwait, Qatar, Bahrain, UAE, Omar, Yemen, Saudi Arabia,

When these 10 kings unite under the Islamic leader is will be the most formidable, terrifying power the world has ever seen. (Dan. 7: 7)

Sorry Marilyn, thought I answered you already.

That is my point. God will not let a great power correction to occur. The fifth seal reveals the reason why martyrs are killed. When there are no more humans, there are no more martyrs. I believe the New Earth is the old earth ruled by Jesus.

The standard interpretation of 10 kings 1. Alemanni 2. Franks 3. Burgundians 4 . Angles 5. Suevi 6. Lombards 7. Visigoths 8. Vandals 9. Heruli. 10. Ostrogoths. The last 3 were Arian so were exterminated. The problem is I cannot verify this list with a definitive set of criteria. I could not generate this list from the historical records. I therefore conclude it cannot be this or this is beyond my competence. This was 30 years ago, no further substantiation has come to light only refutations.

The key to understanding the end times is not historical knowledge, but the wisdom of the bible.

The 10 kings in the Middle East sound a bit like Nostradamus. There is no historic data up till now that any of the Middle East states have any influence except OPEC. The middle east was always an area of proxy wars not the establishment of a great power. Only turkey is a remnant of the ottoman empire.

Dan 8 deals with Antiochus Epiphanes IV and not the end times (as per Josephus)
Dan 11 deals with the Seluccid and Ptolemy regimes.
The army of 200 000 000 is actually a cardinal 2 x 10000 x 10000. Basically, the entire world military will be crippled, not an indication of the population.

 

[Nehemiah6]

An english translation is already exegeted. It is already interpreted at the most basic level. Thus you are drinking milk, not seeking the truth.

This is just nonsense.

 

[LactoseIntolerant]

This is just nonsense.

Aren't you a little old for fables? The Antichrist, the revived roman empire, and satanic jews...Anyways, good luck to you. I leave the last word to you.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Aren't you a little old for fables? The Antichrist, the revived roman empire, and satanic jews...Anyways, good luck to you. I leave the last word to you.

Right. Invest in Aesop's Fables. You could learn a lot from them.