The Falling Away - pre-trib rapture or ???

[DavidTree]

The bible betrays you.
Over and over

Mat 24
38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,



Wow...EXACTLY OPPOSITE OF YOUR DOCTRINE.

Do you ever check things out????

EXACTLY what i and the entire Scriptures are saying to you = but you cannot understand.

You and the others do not understand the purpose of Christ saying = "they were marrying and given in marriage"

So, no great tribulation in Noah's days??? = just beautiful marriage and God destroyed them all??? = you are clueless to what this means.

 

[Absolutely]

EXACTLY what i and the entire Scriptures are saying to you = but you cannot understand.

You and the others do not understand the purpose of Christ saying = "they were marrying and given in marriage"

So, no great tribulation in Noah's days??? = just beautiful marriage and God destroyed them all??? = you are clueless to what this means.

Bible paints a different picture than what you reframed it to be.

Very clear that all rapture verses are peacetime and normal life.

You need to look outside your teachers.

Postrib rapture is not at all bible

 

[DavidTree]

Bible paints a different picture than what you reframed it to be.

Very clear that all rapture verses are peacetime and normal life.

You need to look outside your teachers.

Postrib rapture is not at all bible

But you do not know or understand what "peace time and normal life" means.

God destroyed the world because of your "peace time and normal life"

You are clueless - i suggest you humble yourself before God and seek the Illumination of the Holy Spirit.

 

[FreeGrace2]

I am from missouri.
Show me.

You have been shown Acts 24:15 which says there are only 2 resurrections; one for the saved and one for the unsaved.

You have been shown 1 Cor 15:23 which says that "when He (Christ) comes" that being the Second Advent, "whose who belong to Him" will be resurrected. That is the SINGLE resurrection from Acts 24:15.

You have been shown Rev 20:5 which clearly describes the resurrection of the martyred believers from the Trib as the FIRST resurrection.

So, EVERY verse indicates ONLY 1 resurrection, not a series of them, or a resurrection in "stages" as some pretribbers try to argue.

Nope. Only 1 resurrection, which occurs AFTER the Trib when Christ returns.

So, Mr Missouri, why don't you believe these verses?

Remember, according to you, no gathering untill after a great trib ...and you said that is ALWAYS the case.

These verses show that clearly.

Then I Showed you that os not the case.

What you really need to show is a verse that show Jesus taking resurrected people to heaven. But you don't have such a verse. Because that will NOT occur.

 

[Evmur]

There are no 4 horsemen kicking off the gt?
Who sends them?

No

The 4 horsemen are instruments of God's wrath.

 

[FreeGrace2]

So you can not refute my examples

You have been refuted by Acts 24:15, 1 Cor 15;23 and Rev 20:5.

That is where we " all can see"

....as you put it

Yep. Done that. Do you have eyes to see?

 

[Evmur]

I guess you have no idea how bad the trib is.

I can see any point you are making....the ONLY way anyone could hold to that is if noah or lot had something similar going on.

Please specifically point to either and inclide the extreme horrors and judgement sent to th

"""As usual, no pre-trib found in the Word = Acts 1 rejects the lie of pre-trib"""

Lol...comical that the wording omits any possibility of any position but pretrib rapture

You have to make " like manner" of no horses, peacetime, solo except with angels, and no warrior dynamic, no accompanying horses blackening the sky, no buying/ selling prohibited/ no mark of the beast, no destroyed earth with half of mankind destroyed....and on and on.

Postrib fails on how many fronts?????

Please do take a shot at it.

I want to see some real crafty reframing of Gods word today.

Gonna take some real postrib searching on youtube to get any traction.

Face it....your deal is done my friend.
Any one of the pretrib rapture verses blows a huge hole in postrib rapture.

Any ONE of our verses.

Much less the arsonal of the entire council of God.

I would love to see a practical reconciling of acts one "like manner"

It can be done honestly.

You are welcome.

Tribulation comes from the world. It is persecution. The Great Tribulation is the great end times persecution.

 

[Absolutely]

But you do not know or understand what "peace time and normal life" means.

God destroyed the world because of your "peace time and normal life"

You are clueless - i suggest you humble yourself before God and seek the Illumination of the Holy Spirit.

You have no case otherwise.
What is it??? Because you claimed it to be so????

Either make a case or simply read what is there.

No additives or pollutants.
Just read it and see that is all i am doing.

Make a case for this intense horrible gt of heathens as Jesus claimed " such as the world has never seen or ever will see again" pre noah and lot judgements.

If you are hinging a doctrine on a claim...you should quite handily show me my error.

You never have.

 

[FreeGrace2]

""What you CANNOT show from Scripture is Jesus coming to the sky above earth, and taking resurrected believers up to heaven. And THAT is the core principle of the "pre-trib theory".""

Lol

1thes 4. Read it for the first time.

Are you serious? I've read that passage monthly for about 2 decades. As well as the rest of the NT. So I'm VERY familiar with the passage.

But apparently you aren't so aware. I asked for a verse that shows Jesus taking resurrected believers to heaven.

And you come up with 1 Thess 4!! Amazing.

So, since you think there is a verse in that passage showing Jesus taking resurrected believers to heaven, please quote the verse so I can understand where you are coming from. Because I've NEVER seen any such verse.

Please quote the verse so I can stop asking for such a verse.

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

Are you kidding??!!

v.16 has Jesus returning and the dead in Christ rising first. That's the FIRST resurrection from Rev 20:5.
v.17 has those still alive on the earth being "caught up together with THEM in the clouds", to meet the Lord in the air. The verse ends with "so shall we ever be with the Lord".

What v.17 DOESN'T SAY is the Lord taking anyone back to heaven.

v.18 is about comfort.

So, you FAILED to show any verse that tells us that Jesus takes resurrected believers to heaven.

Therefore, the problem is your PRESUMPTION that .17 means that. But it doesn't say that. So there's no reason to believe that.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Pretrib

"BEFORE"

Solid bible.
Easy to defend

I still am waiting for a single postrib rapture verse.

Sure. 2 Thess 2:1-3. But, do you have eyes to see?

There are none. .......at lest in 40 years of study, nobody has yet to find one

Their eyes were shut tight. That's their problem. Don't keep making it your problem.

 

[DavidTree]

You have no case otherwise.
What is it??? Because you claimed it to be so????

Either make a case or simply read what is there.

No additives or pollutants.
Just read it and see that is all i am doing.

Make a case for this intense horrible gt of heathens as Jesus claimed " such as the world has never seen or ever will see again" pre noah and lot judgements.

If you are hinging a doctrine on a claim...you should quite handily show me my error.

You never have.

only eight souls were saved - WHY??? = "because they married and were given in marriage" = my case, God's Case, is Rock Solid

You are in a state of deception whereby you cannot understand the Scriptures

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said:
OK then. Show me the verses. (referring to Jesus taking resurrected believers to heaven.

lol. Where in Acts 1 did Jesus take resurrected believers to heaven with Him???

Actually, 2 Thess 2:1-3 devastates the pretrib theory.

Don't need to have anything changed. The Bible is quite clear enough. What a refresher?

Acts 24:15 - and I have the same hope in God as these men themselves have, that there will be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked.

This is clear; there is ONE resurrection for the saved and ONE resurrection for the unsaved.

1 Cor 15:23 - But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him.

This verse is clear; regarding the resurrection of the saved, Jesus was resurrected as firstfruits, and then, "when He comes", obviously referring to the Second Advent, EVERY saved person, "those who belong to Him". This applies from Adam on.

So, there will be ONE resurrection of ALL the saved. It cannot occur before the Trib as you presume, because of the martyrs.

Rev 20-
4 I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. Theyhad not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

Since these are those who lost their heads IN the Trib, the words "came to life" is an obvious reference to the single resurrection of the saved.

5(The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection.

This verse very clearly describes this SINGLE resurrection of the saved (Acts 24:15) as the FIRST ONE.

And, there cannot be a resurrection BEFORE the FIRST one.

It all occurs as the Bible says, not how you fantasize.

No. There is NO pretrib rapture.

But, why are you so anti-2 Thess 2:1-3?

BTW.

Hey, before your "btw", please re-read what I posted above. That means expanding all of the quote to see what I said. The focus is on the fact that you have NO verses showing Jesus taking anyone to heaven after the single resurrection.

"LIKE MANNER"

TIE THAT IN WITH YOUR DOCTRINE.

I can't imagine how the words have any relevance to anything. Maybe you could explain yourself a bit more.

i will wait

Nothing to wait for. Just provide an explanation of how "like manner" is problematic for my view.

Show me what that is talking about.

Why don't you?

 

[FreeGrace2]

Bible paints a different picture than what you reframed it to be.

What you do.

Postrib rapture is not at all bible

Tell that to Paul. Acts 24:15, 1 Cor 15:23 are from Him. 1 Thess 4 is from him and there is NO mention of Jesus taking anyone to heaven.

And Rev 20:5 shows the FIRST (single) resurrection is after the Trib.

Eyes to see.

 

[DavidTree]

Sure. 2 Thess 2:1-3. But, do you have eyes to see?


Their eyes were shut tight. That's their problem. Don't keep making it your problem.

Everyone who holds to an idol covers their mind with the lie that the idol represents.
They cannot see past it but by the Grace of God.

The heart is deceitful above all things
and beyond cure.
Who can understand it?
10I, the LORD, search the heart;
I examine the mind
to reward a man according to his way,
by what his deeds deserve.
Jeremiah 17

 

[FreeGrace2]

Everyone who holds to an idol covers their mind with the lie that the idol represents.
They cannot see past it but by the Grace of God.

The heart is deceitful above all things
and beyond cure.
Who can understand it?
10I, the LORD, search the heart;
I examine the mind
to reward a man according to his way,
by what his deeds deserve.
Jeremiah 17

Amen!

 

[Absolutely]

only eight souls were saved - WHY??? = "because they married and were given in marriage" = my case, God's Case, is Rock Solid

You are in a state of deception whereby you cannot understand the Scriptures

HUH

THAT HAS NOTING WHATSOVER TO DO WITH YOU ESTABLISHING SOME DEFENSE FOR YOUR " TRIB ALWAYS PRECEDES WRATH ERROR.

YES THE ARK WAS MADE OF WOOD.

YES WATER IS WET.

Lots of deflections
Nothing proving anything you have claimed in your last 10 posts.

 

[Absolutely]

What you do.


Tell that to Paul. Acts 24:15, 1 Cor 15:23 are from Him. 1 Thess 4 is from him and there is NO mention of Jesus taking anyone to heaven.

And Rev 20:5 shows the FIRST (single) resurrection is after the Trib.

Eyes to see.

No mention of sandals. So we can definately conclude all the saints were barefoot.

So bet the farm on it

 

[Absolutely]

Sure. 2 Thess 2:1-3. But, do you have eyes to see?


Their eyes were shut tight. That's their problem. Don't keep making it your problem.

"""There are none. .......at lest in 40 years of study, nobody has yet to find one"""

Must be true then

You had an opportunity to correct me.

You walked off

But i know your task is impossible.

Every answer you give is anti pretrib, deflection, or a complete nothing burger.

It is juvenile and silly to answer your opponent in such generalities.

If i challenge you to make your case with one verse, and you walk away......
Comical

 

[Absolutely]

So lets have a verse.

Note i am giving you the easiest way out.

A simple verse proving the rapture is post trib, wrath or whatever your modern terminology is.

Show me a verse.

None of you have so far.

Teach me how i am wrong.

Is it too hard????

Apparently it is.

 

[DavidTree]

HUH

THAT HAS NOTING WHATSOVER TO DO WITH YOU ESTABLISHING SOME DEFENSE FOR YOUR " TRIB ALWAYS PRECEDES WRATH ERROR.

YES THE ARK WAS MADE OF WOOD.

YES WATER IS WET.

Lots of deflections
Nothing proving anything you have claimed in your last 10 posts.

I have told you these things so that in Me you may have peace. In the world you will have tribulation. But take courage; I have overcome the world!”

They preached the gospel to that city and made many disciples. Then they returned to Lystra, Iconium, and Antioch, 22strengthening the souls of the disciples and encouraging them to continue in the faith. “We must endure many tribulation to enter the kingdom of God,” they said.

I, John, both your brother and companion in the tribulation and kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was on the island that is called Patmos for the word of God and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.

yet he has no root in himself, but endures only for a while. For when tribulation or persecution arises because of the word, immediately he stumbles.

And not only that, but we also glory in tribulations, knowing that tribulation produces perseverance;


And I said to him, “Sir, you know.” So he said to me, “These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

We are bound to thank God always for you, brethren, as it is fitting, because your faith grows exceedingly, and the love of every one of you all abounds toward each other, so that we ourselves boast of you among the churches of God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and tribulations that you endure, which is manifest[ evidence of the righteous judgment of God, that you may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which you also suffer;