What are you thoughts on Annihilation?

Laura798 · Oct 17, 2021

HI Barney,

It seems you are trolling as you obviously didn't read any of our postings with their supporting scriptures. And it isn't very smart of you to post a picture of yourself for everyone to see--what's the point of a pseudonym, then?

I'm going to tell Andy about your shenanigans. And Aunt Bee--you won't be invited to Sunday dinner today, I imagine.

Laura798 · Oct 17, 2021

Gardenias said:

So Gardenias, according to your way of thinking we should take all figurative language literally--which would then of course negate all of Jesus parables AND the angel's explanation of what things represent in the book of Revelation.

What then do you make of the angel explaining what things represent in Revelation?

1. The beast with the 7 heads and 10 crowns IS__________
2. The prostitute IS_______________________________________
3. The many waters ARE___________________________________
4. The lake of fire IS the second DEATH_________________

"Meanwhile the disciples urged Him, “Rabbi, eat something.” But He told them, "I have food to eat that you know nothing about. "So the disciples asked one another, “Could someone have brought Him food?-- John 4: 31-33

(i imagine Jesus smacking his forehead at this point)

So even the apostles who walked with the Lord seemed to take stuff literally--thankfully they finally got it!

I've noticed those who believe in a false doctrine,

1) Are often confusing "God is not the author of confusion"
2) Will explain at length what Scripture is saying instead of letting Scripture speak for itself
3) Speak out of emotion instead of quoting Scripture and don't use Scripture to test Scripture
4) Attack the individual
5) Have a bit of a god complex--"A person with a god complex may refuse to admit the possibility of their error or failure, even in the face of irrefutable evidence"

And they haven't actually studied carefully the scriptures for themselves. Like a cult member, they cling tenaciously to what they've been taught by men, instead of asking God to reveal Himself thru His Word. The verses we have shared to support Annihilationism are Mount Kilimanjaro vs the ant hill (all figurative verses) for Eternal Punishment.

Magenta · Oct 17, 2021

I started watching the video in the OP

Which led me to reading this (<= link)

Some may benefit from it... @Runningman and and @Laura798 and @ewq1938 and @Aaron56

My apologies if I have omitted any, since Gardenias mentioned there were 8 of us here

Lucy-Pevensie · Oct 17, 2021

Runningman said:

2 Thess 1:9
They will be punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might

Matt 8:12
But the subjects of the kingdom will be thrown outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.”

btw I didn't take you for a JW.

But Annhilationism is one of their doctrines.

Laura798 · Oct 17, 2021

Laura798 said:

So Gardenias, according to your way of thinking we should take all figurative language literally--which would then of course negate all of Jesus parables AND the angel's explanation of what things represent in the book of Revelation.

What then do you make of the angel explaining what things represent in Revelation?

1. The beast with the 7 heads and 10 crowns IS__________
2. The prostitute IS_______________________________________
3. The many waters ARE___________________________________
4. The lake of fire IS the second DEATH_________________

"Meanwhile the disciples urged Him, “Rabbi, eat something.” But He told them, "I have food to eat that you know nothing about. "So the disciples asked one another, “Could someone have brought Him food?-- John 4: 31-33

(i imagine Jesus smacking his forehead at this point)

So even the apostles who walked with the Lord seemed to take stuff literally--thankfully they finally got it!

I've noticed those who believe in a false doctrine,

1) Are often confusing "God is not the author of confusion"
2) Will explain at length what Scripture is saying instead of letting Scripture speak for itself
3) Speak out of emotion instead of quoting Scripture and don't use Scripture to test Scripture
4) Attack the individual
5) Have a bit of a god complex--"A person with a god complex may refuse to admit the possibility of their error or failure, even in the face of irrefutable evidence"

And they haven't actually studied carefully the scriptures for themselves. Like a cult member, they cling tenaciously to what they've been taught by men, instead of asking God to reveal Himself thru His Word. The verses we have shared to support Annihilationism are Mount Kilimanjaro vs the ant hill (all figurative verses) for Eternal Punishment.

Correction: That should be "Eternal Conscious Torment", not Eternal Punishment.

Lucy-Pevensie · Oct 17, 2021

Magenta said:

How so?

Magenta said:

This is not a cultic belief. Yes, JW and Christadelphians teach these things, as does SDA, but also others outside any recognizable denomination believe without being taught from man. I always smile a little to myself when John Stott is mentioned in my church's preaching. One of the 20th Century’s most respected religious leaders, he was a highly respected conservative English Anglican cleric and theologian noted as a leader of the worldwide evangelical movement, and a principal author of the Lausanne Covenant in 1974. In 2005, Time magazine ranked Stott among the 100 most influential people in the world. Stott said that: "the ultimate annihilation of the wicked should at least be accepted as a legitimate, biblically founded alternative to their eternal conscious torment." I have heard he "recanted" of this position though I am not sure if that is true or not. What I am certain of is that he received a lot of high profile pressure to do so.

Laura798 · Oct 17, 2021

Magenta said:

Thanks, Magenta for sharing--I'll take a look. And I say to all of you on the 'A' team--you've greatly encouraged my faith! I was seriously considering leaving CC as it seemed there were few true Christians on this site--now that's been proven otherwise by all of you.
Blessings and again I'm grateful for your faith and encouragement.

Magenta · Oct 17, 2021

Lucy-Pevensie said:

Yes, the second death is everlasting. Why people push so hard against that is inconceivable.

Those who are cast out... what are they cast out of?

Most likely at what we now call the "marriage supper of the Lamb" (Revelation 19:9).

Two points regarding those who rejected the invitation, and
are not clothed in proper attire of the righteousness of Christ:

The invitation is given more than once and given by both the Spirit and the bride;
Sinner’s torment will be increased with the knowledge that they declined God’s invitation.

They are cast out, aware of their predicament in the face of an almighty God Who they know
is going to judge and condemn them. Wailing and gnashing of teeth puts mildly their anticipation.

Magenta · Oct 17, 2021

It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

Various translations:

It is a terrifying thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

It is a fearful and terrifying thing to fall into the hands
of the living God [incurring His judgment and wrath].

It is a terrible thing to fall into the hands of the living God!

It is an awful thing to fall into the hands of the ever-living God.

Fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, but for them it is too late.

I wonder now how many have experienced that

I have.

Laura798 · Oct 17, 2021

Magenta said:

I started watching the video in the OP

Which led me to reading this (<= link)

Some may benefit from it... @Runningman and and @Laura798 and @ewq1938 and @Aaron56

My apologies if I have omitted any, since Gardenias mentioned there were 8 of us here

And Salt Water Girl!

Magenta · Oct 17, 2021

Laura798 said:

My apologies to @SaltwaterGirl

Laura798 · Oct 17, 2021

Magenta said:

I'd like to add too, that weeping is not something done when in agony, rather it is done in sorrow as when Jesus wept over Jerusalem and when he wept with the others grieving Lazarus' death. Also, if you look up the definition, gnashing of teeth is also defined as being done in anger or deep regret. Most of the verses you will find in Scripture show wicked people 'gnashing' their teeth in anger--there are a number of verses in the old testament. Think too of those who stoned Steven--they 'gnashed' their teeth in anger at him.
And I imagine if a person were to be burned alive, they would be screaming--not weeping. Why not go back and read historical accounts of people being burned alive--think too of that the next time you burn your finger....

Pilgrimshope · Oct 17, 2021

Runningman said:

a born again spirit yes only comes through Christ. Man had a living spirit from the beginning remember how after they sinned they lived around a thousand years ? After the tenth generation God says this

“And the Lord said, My spirit shall not always strive with man,

for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭6:3‬ ‭KJV‬‬

man needs to be reborn of the spirit because mans spirit was corrupted by the knowledge of good and evil.

do you see this though ?

“And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried; And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭16:22-24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

neither man actually dies ones spirit is in hell alive and the other is th Abraham alive . But that’s only hell what of the lake of fire ?

“And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭14:9-11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

it seems as if everyone’s body is going to die and everyone’s spirit is bound for the second death , except those who are saved from that fate.

I’m not positive how being born again through Christ connects to what I’m saying every man has a living spirit that originated from God it’s what makes our bodies live our life force

Of those living men and women they are either children of God sealed by the Holy Ghost through the gospel or of Satan who refuse the gospel and serve the enemy in the flesh

In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil:

whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭3:10‬ ‭KJV‬

those who serve Satan in This world will spend eternity with tbier father while the others will Inherit the kingdom

“Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭25:41‬ ‭KJV‬‬

all nations will appear at that judgement all people they will all
Be resurrected and face judgement. The only question is when they are cast into the lake of fire will thier spirit cease to exist or will they never know rest and be tormented day and night for serving satan along with him ?

to enter the kingdom we have to be born of Christs spirit but every living creature already has a spirit of Life in them and spirit doesn’t die it’s why hell exists place to keep evil bound forever being a spiritual place

I don’t think ( just my own thinking and studies ) I don’t think there’s any support. Biblically for annihilating but every support for an eternal spiritual place

A place of sorrow darkness and pain

“And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭25:30‬ ‭KJV‬‬

a place of awareness like the rich man was aware

“There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭13:28‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭16:28‬ ‭KJV‬‬

I think this one sort of sums it up

“The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭14:10-11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

God has in Christ made a way for
Mankind to escape that place that isn’t physical formoir flesh but is spiritual for our being

Yahshua · Oct 17, 2021

Here's an interesting chapter from Psalm...

Psalm 82 [brackets mine]
God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods. [Heb. "elohim"; the spirits over nations; the angels; Daniel 10, Ephesians 6]

2 How long will ye judge unjustly, and accept the persons of the wicked? Selah.

3 Defend the poor and fatherless: do justice to the afflicted and needy.

4 Deliver the poor and needy: rid them out of the hand of the wicked.

5 They know not, neither will they understand; they walk on in darkness: all the foundations of the earth are out of course.

6 I have said, Ye are gods;[elohim; the spirits; the angels] and all of you are children of the most High.

7 But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes.

8 Arise, O God, judge the earth: for thou shalt inherit all nations.

rayzor · Oct 17, 2021

Paul said something about the gods = fallen angles that it's behavior that makes them not so.

Pilgrimshope · Oct 17, 2021

Yahshua said:

“And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭9:27‬ ‭KJV‬‬

mans creation his construction

“And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground,

and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭2:7‬ ‭KJV‬‬

mans death , his deconstruction

“Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was:

and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.”
‭‭Ecclesiastes‬ ‭12:7‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The body dies and decays into the dust it came from , the spirit returns to God to be judged by what they did while in the body

“For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭5:10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

that’s a mans spirit that appears before the jidgement throne in this place

“But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven,

and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,

And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭12:22-24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

the spirit of man is judged for what we do in the body while we live on earth it’s our time of determination for our eternal
Home

SaltwaterGirl · Oct 17, 2021

Laura798 said:

So Gardenias, according to your way of thinking we should take all figurative language literally--which would then of course negate all of Jesus parables AND the angel's explanation of what things represent in the book of Revelation.
Amen, @Laura798 . . .

Jesus Christ told His disciples that He spoke in parables for two reasons (Mat. 13:11):

(1) To render the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven simple and understandable to His disciples, those who discipline themselves in His Word.
(2) To keep the kingdom's mysteries hidden from those who do not seek Him and thus lack eyes to see and ears to hear.

I thank the Lord above for making many of us here disciples.

rayzor · Oct 17, 2021

Gardenias said:

Because it is abomination to our feeling of love to know that god has angles put people in hell.Therefore people rationalize rather then to say that it is wrong of god.

Runningman · Oct 17, 2021

Pilgrimshope said:

For brevity, I'll address what I think what you believe is the best argument in favor of eternal torment and show you how that it's not about eternal torment.

I take it you believe "they have no rest day nor night" to mean eternal torment. I believe you may be mistaken. The clue is found in the Old Testament in Isaiah 34:9-10:

Isaiah 34:9-10
9And the streams thereof shall be turned into pitch, and the dust thereof into brimstone, and the land thereof shall become burning pitch.
10It shall not be quenched night nor day; the smoke thereof shall go up for ever: from generation to generation it shall lie waste; none shall pass through it for ever and ever.

In regards to God's judgement against Edom, the same three elements are found in Revelation 14:11: judgement by fire, not quenched "day or night", and smoke that rises forever.

In the present day, there are no places with streams of eternal burning pitch, burning brimstone dust, and land made of burning pitch with smoke that rises forever; this means it's not literal.

Therefore, Isaiah 34:9-10 contains symbolic imagery used to convey the idea of complete and utter destruction of Edom. Revelation 14:11 should be interpreted to be symbolic imagery used to describe the complete and utter destruction of those who worship the beast or his image.

In conclusion, God's judgement and wrath had an end when Edom was destroyed; God's judgement and wrath will have an end when those who worship the beast are destroyed. It has nothing to do with eternal torment.

Pilgrimshope · Oct 17, 2021

rayzor said:

your looking at it like an atheist

God gave us freedom and dominion from the start and warned us of sin and death and we chose to follow the lies of Satan so we’re being led into hell by Satan and his word and will because we reject Gods warning and will that’s offering us eternal life in peace with him .

Godnis. Ot willing that anyone be lost to that place it’s why he’s so open and transparent about not going there we don’t believe is why we end up there he has been trying to tell us the truth to warn us from going to that place since the beginning we don’t listen to him

so we create ideas like Godnis throwing people in hell arbitrarily by his own will it creates a distorted non believing view of God who’s given his precious blood to keep us from that place he warns us of over and over if we end up there it’s not going to be Gods fault it’s gonna be ours who consistently rejected all his warnings d directions that would have kept us safe in his home

What are you thoughts on Annihilation?

Well-known member

Well-known member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Well-known member

Senior Member

Well-known member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Well-known member

Senior Member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Senior Member

Banned

Well-known member

SaltwaterGirl

Guest

Banned

Banned

Well-known member