What are you thoughts on Annihilation?

[CS1]

Those that wanted no part in God's plans of a new heavens & earth, are they not locked out of it?

Rev 21:27
Nothing impure will ever enter it, nor will anyone who does what is shameful or deceitful,
but only those whose names are written in the Lamb’s book of life.
^ The above is referring to The New Jerusalem which is in the new H & E

Rev 22:15
Outside are the dogs, those who practise magic arts, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters
and everyone who loves and practises falsehood.

amen, it is amazing how many will say God is not loving yet he has raised those who were DEAD to be judged for what they did in their past life while on earth. Noone gett away with anything.

 

[Laura798]

I know you weren't addressing me Laura but 2 things to consider.

1 You can't call a soveriegn God evil for bringing eternal punishment. You can't judge God.
God is longsuffering & has endured much pain & sorrow himself in order to spare everyone the
fate of eternity locked away from his presence.

2 Burning a body isn't the same as burning a spirit being. Spirits can't be annhilated with fire.
They can only continue to burn.
They can be locked up away from God for eternity. The burning of that seperation is the torment.
No effort on God's part is required to torment souls, he only has to cut them off from his presence.

We choose God or we don't. The alternative is eternal burning.
There is no relief of annihilation if we choose to be without him.

Dear Lucy, a spirit being can't continue to burn as it isn't matter--ONLY matter burns. Again, "no one can see God and live." --they will be destroyed simply by being in His presence at the judgment. Also as I said, quoting the angel in Revelation "There will be no more sorrow and no more tears. " NO MORE. Everything is made new--no more sin, sorrow or death. Why would anyone want to believe other wise?

 

[Lucy-Pevensie]

Here's a related question, which addresses the mother doctrine to "eternal torment": "the innate immortality of the soul".

Can The Almighty create a Being He can't then uncreate (i.e.destroy)? Or better said, can the Almighty uncreate (destroy) Beings He has created, or is it impossible one they're created?

You might want to consider what kind of beings The Almighty intended to create.
Those he could dwell with by their own free will in eternity.

It might have been easier to have creatures that could be annhilated.
Why bother with all the dying on a cross aggravation if you can annhilate everything & start again.

 

[Laura798]

those who are standing before the Great White Throne Judgment were dead yet they stood before the Lord then sent to the place of eternal torment.


Rev 20:11-15

11 Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. From his presence, earth and sky fled away, and no place was found for them. 12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Then another book was opened, which is the book of life. And the dead were judged by what was written in the books, according to what they had done. 13 And the sea gave up the dead who were in it, Death and Hades gave up the dead who were in them, and they were judged, each one of them, according to what they had done. 14 Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. 15 And if anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

Jesus is not wasting HIS time Judging the who are standing before HIM that came from the grave, the sea, and the earth both small and great. This is not figurative or descriptive it is normative of what Jesus said Eternal judgment would be.

I person who died before they were saved and this Appointed Judgment Day will stand before the Lord that was dead but now alive facing The Eternal God in and Eternal judgment.

Those who hold to annihilationism fail to see how the position does not address those who died unsaved that must stand at this Great White Throne. They would have you believe once you are dead that it.

CS1, all believers no there will be a judgment of both the living and the dead at the end of the age--I fail to see your point.

 

[Lucy-Pevensie]

Dear Lucy, a spirit being can't continue to burn as it isn't matter--ONLY matter burns. Again, "no one can see God and live." --they will be destroyed simply by being in His presence at the judgment. Also as I said, quoting the angel in Revelation "There will be no more sorrow and no more tears. " NO MORE. Everything is made new--no more sin, sorrow or death. Why would anyone want to believe other wise?

I don't believe otherwise.
You seem to struggle with conceptualising spiritual things.

Is emotion made of matter? Can you not 'burn' with emotion? Spirits run still deeper than that.
A spiritual burning is not something that could be quenched in a material fashion.

 

[CS1]

Matthew 25:31-32, 44-46

31“When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory. 32 All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats.

41“Then He will also say to those on the left hand, ‘Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels: 42for I was hungry and you gave Me no food; I was thirsty and you gave Me no drink; 43I was a stranger and you did not take Me in, naked and you did not clothe Me, sick and in prison and you did not visit Me.’

44“Then they also will answer [d]Him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to You?’ 45Then He will answer them, saying, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.’ 46And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

The Contrast between heaven and hell could not be any clearly

One to eternal righteousness, the other to everlasting punishment.

 

[CS1]

CS1, all believers no there will be a judgment of both the living and the dead at the end of the age--I fail to see your point.

Christians will only have the works judged after they were saved at what is known as the Judgment seat of Christ. The Grear White Throne Judgement will not have any saved person standing there.

 

[Laura798]

You might want to consider what kind of beings The Almighty intended to create.
Those he could dwell with by their own free will in eternity.

It might have been easier to have creatures that could be annhilated.
Why bother with all the dying on a cross aggravation if you can annhilate everything & start again.

Dear Lucy,

I don't think you read any of my presenting arguments. To say the wicked are tormented for all eternity means you either believe,

1. Christ did not pay the penalty for our sin by dying on the cross--the death we deserved.
2. Or you would have to believe that he is in eternal torment now paying the penalty for our sin.

 

[CS1]

Dear Lucy,

I don't think you read any of my presenting arguments. To say the wicked are tormented for all eternity means you either believe,

1. Christ did not pay the penalty for our sin by dying on the cross--the death we deserved.
2. Or you would have to believe that he is in eternal torment now paying the penalty for our sin.

that sounds like :
Universalism meets Annihilationism

 

[Laura798]

Christians will only have the works judged after they were saved at what is known as the Judgment seat of Christ. The Grear White Throne Judgement will not have any saved person standing there.

I have never heard this argument--anywhere. All will stand before the Judgment Seat of Christ.

"For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each of us may receive what is due us for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad."--2nd Corinthians 5:10

 

[Laura798]

that sounds like :
Universalism meets Annihilationism

Nothing I have said points to Universalism.

 

[CS1]

I have never heard this argument--anywhere. All will stand before the Judgment Seat of Christ.

"For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each of us may receive what is due us for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad."--2nd Corinthians 5:10

Please know there are two types of Judgments those who are unsaved called the Great White Throne Judgment and the Judgment seat of Christ. He judges the Church HIS Bride

 

[Lucy-Pevensie]

Dear Lucy,

I'm sorry, but a place of eternal is a myth--you said the alternative is"eternal burning' but you won't find that term used in Scripture anywhere. It is Eternal Destruction and Eternal Punishment--all things ending with 'tion' and 'ment' are completed/finished--it is not ongoing--the eternal means there is no coming back from it. Also you say you can't judge God--but Satan is the author of the doctrine of eternal torment as he is so many false doctrines in our churches. Also Jeus said,

"Do not fear those who can kill the body, rather fear the One who can destroy both body and SOUL in hell"

Comlpeted action. Ok, but Jesus contrasts eternal punishment with eternal life.
If we beileve eternal punishment is not really eternal, are we also to believe eternal life is not eternal either?

Math 25:46 “And they will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

Dear Lucy,

you said the alternative is"eternal burning' but you won't find that term used in Scripture anywhere.

What does the Bible mean by "unquenchable fire" then? Math 3:12

 

[CS1]

Nothing I have said points to Universalism.

"I don't think you read any of my presenting arguments. To say the wicked are tormented for all eternity means you either believe,"

1. Christ did not pay the penalty for our sin by dying on the cross--the death we deserved.
2. Or you would have to believe that he is in eternal torment now paying the penalty for our sin.

The context of hell is not for the believer. So your point is 1. suggesting all are saved because of what Jesus did on the Cross or we have to believe Jesus is suffering in hell.


That is so left field and no one here even believes such a thing or has said that.

 

[Laura798]

Matthew 25:31-32, 44-46

31“When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory. 32 All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats.

41“Then He will also say to those on the left hand, ‘Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels: 42for I was hungry and you gave Me no food; I was thirsty and you gave Me no drink; 43I was a stranger and you did not take Me in, naked and you did not clothe Me, sick and in prison and you did not visit Me.’

44“Then they also will answer [d]Him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to You?’ 45Then He will answer them, saying, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.’ 46And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

The Contrast between heaven and hell could not be any clearly

One to eternal righteousness, the other to everlasting punishment.

The bible is clear. The punishment for sin is DEATH.

" "For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.""
Death is the eternal punishMENT--it does not say punishING---this death is final and there is no coming back from it.

 

[Laura798]

Comlpeted action. Ok, but Jesus contrasts eternal punishment with eternal life.
If we beileve eternal punishment is not really eternal, are we also to believe eternal life is not eternal either?

Math 25:46 “And they will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”




What does the Bible mean by "unquenchable fire then? Math 3:12

It is FIGURATIVE--it is the fire that is ETERNAL, that means the thing it is burned will be totally and completely DESTROYED.

 

[Runningman]

Those that wanted no part in God's plans of a new heavens & earth, are they not locked out of it?

Rev 22:15
Outside are the dogs, those who practise magic arts, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters
and everyone who loves and practises falsehood.

Revelation 21:8 says that those people will experience their second death (annihilation) in the lake of fire. They won't be lingering outside of the New Heavens and New Earth for very long.

Revelation 21:8
8But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

 

[CS1]

The bible is clear. The punishment for sin is DEATH.

" "For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.""
Death is the eternal punishMENT--it does not say punishING---this death is final and there is no coming back from it.

Yes, that is why we die a physical death Once Spiritual death is separation from the Eternal God Hel is the eternal place for those who rejected SO great a Salvation.

Jesus Victory is over Psycial death, Spiritual death, and the eternal punishment of hell. Gehenna As Jesus Describe it.
HE took the keys or authority from Death Hell and the grave It is one of the most powerful things God has done for man

 

[Lucy-Pevensie]

It is FIGURATIVE--ift is the fire that is ETERNAL, that means the thing it is burning will be totally and completely DESTROYED.

So in a sentence that is set up as 2 sides of a coin, one is literal (eternal life) and the other is figurative (eternal punishment).
Not a logical reading IMO.

Convenient that the one we like should be eternal (lasting forever)
and the one we don't like should be eternal (figurative)

 

[CS1]

The bible is clear. The punishment for sin is DEATH.

" "For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.""
Death is the eternal punishMENT--it does not say punishING---this death is final and there is no coming back from it.

the Punishment is carried out forever as Jesus said. Jesus is the final authority on the topic HE said it is forever Life or everlasting hell