How to defend the doctrine of the Holy Trinity

Ogom · Oct 15, 2021

there are more important things. as those more important things are sought out and followed after, understanding is given or found. level upon level... here a little, there a little. it is maybe pride (and /or a mislead) mind that thinks it it knows and/or that it knows much... when it does not, or does but only in part (1 Cor. 13:9-12).. and/or seeks to know things not as important to understand before the more important matters. truth is found by a truthful mind/ heart. thus the ten... or however many one has had revealed to them. seek more revelations of law, for where false witness or any kind of lying to ourselves or to others adverantly or inadvertently exists -- then falsehoods of thought / logic / understanding / ideas / teachings / doctrines / ideologies lies in wait for us and surround us -- to whatever degree it does as allowed or held back, or given to us by God, or not yet given to us through lack of lawfullness... until we learn to walk / think / act / feel more and more by the laws of God and Christ -- the way, to the truth, and to the life. Jesus did not lie to Himself, so He knew the truth, was the truth, lived the truth, told the truth, led others to finding the truth and to following the truth.

Edify · Oct 15, 2021

Jesus can be equal with the Father(God), & at the same time submit to His authority. It's quite simple.
All soldiers are people but not all are generals. Equally people & soldiers, but submit to higher ranks.
1 Corinthians 15: 24Then comes the end, when he delivers the kingdom to God the Father after destroying every rule and every authority and power. 25For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet.

TimothyGodIsLove · Oct 15, 2021

Edify said:

All am saying is that Jesus is not omniscient, he rejected this attribute by stating that "Only God knows of that day, not even the angels or anyone"

Edify · Oct 15, 2021

TimothyGodIsLove said:

Even when in a fleshly body, Jesus already knew the hearts of men. Just because only the Father knows doesn't mean Jesus isn't omnicient. He knew everything else. The Father only knew this because of His authority in the Godhead. As Jesus said "no one knows but the Father", states even the Holy Spirit didn't know. But the Holy Spirit is also omnicient.

bluto · Oct 15, 2021

TimothyGodIsLove said:

Sorry it took so long to respond. Yes, the one being of God was referring to the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. Moreover, the doctrine of the Trinity is not hard to understand nor is it confusing. Explaining the nature of the one God is the whole point of the doctrine of the Trinity.

When examining the Bible there are three and only three persons that identify God by (1) His names, (2) His titles, (3) His unique attributes, (4) His unique actions, and (4) His worship. What does this mean? It means (for example) God's titles. Who in the Bible is called "Lord, king, savior?" Or who is credited with His unique actions? "Creation, origin of God's word, salvation of men and/or creation, etc."

God the Father is identified as the creator at (and this only at one place), Isaiah 44:24. Jesus is identified as the creator at John 1-3, Colossians 1:16 as well as at Revelation 3:14. The Holy Spirit was involved in creation at Genesis 1:2. I hope you get the point. Does this make sense to you?

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto

TimothyGodIsLove · Oct 15, 2021

bluto said:

A little, can you address Jesus' omniscient capabilities because while he was here on earth, He said he did not know of the day when he will return, "No one knows of the day, nor the hour, not the angels except my Father who is in heaven?". Did Jesus just tell his disciples he did not know of the day? If true Jesus is not omniscient and thus he cannot be God.

TimothyGodIsLove · Oct 15, 2021

Edify said:

You do know that the Holy Ghost searches the depths of God and can access such knowledge?

justbyfaith · Oct 15, 2021

It is in His humanity that Jesus didn't have the knowledge of the time of His return.

Because, although He was in the form (morphe) of God, He did empty Himself of some of the attributes of Deity in order to take on an added nature of human flesh.

A human being, by nature, has a finite human brain.

But the Spirit who dwelt in and who dwells in Jesus did and does know the day and hour.

The word "morphe" (form) according to Zodhiates, a primary Greek scholar (who also wrote a Lexicon with his name on it), has the meaning that if anyone is in the form (morphe) of something, that that is what they are. So, the fact that Jesus was in the form of God, means that He was God.

rayzor · Oct 15, 2021

justbyfaith said:

Philippians 2:6 ὃς ἐν μορφῇ θεοῦ ὑπάρχων οὐχ ἁρπαγμὸν ἡγήσατο τὸ εἶναι ἴσα θεῷ,,,,It's ah the third word
g3444 Modern pronouching me omecron row fai 8 tah Modern spelling morphe = to change = μορφῇ

Nehemiah6 · Oct 15, 2021

TimothyGodIsLove said:

That statement was limited to while He was present on earth BEFORE His resurrection. But after His resurrection Christ said this (Mt 28:18): All power (authority) is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

This included the knowledge and the authority to know exactly when He would come. Christ will decide when He will come the second time, and this is according to the will of the Father. If you are still trying to reject the deity of Christ, you are digging yourself deeper and deeper into a hole from which there will be no escape.

Absolutely · Oct 16, 2021

TimothyGodIsLove said:

My concern is this contradiction that poses itself in the arguments you have put across.Truly if jesus said the Father is greater than I, then that means God is higher and this makes them unequal because God can command Jesus, and He did this by ordering the Son to Create, we see that from the book of John, everything was made possible through the word who is Jesus.
You have to understand that Jesus was already receiving orders from God and executing them even before the world was made. So justifying that the Son was less than God in human form is ruled out. God had an idea, and that idea was "Let us make man in our own image", this idea needs someone to execute, who is that? Jesus Christ. It is as simple as God drawing the plan and Jesus executing it.
Jesus denies being labeled as good
Jesus when they called him Good Teacher, rejected this glory and replied to them saying.... "I am not good, no one is good except my Father who is in heaven ".
I think when Jesus denied this glory, it made him less of a deity, that only The Father is capable of such benovelence that he deserves the title "good", hence God.

Title God goes to the God head being worshipped
When John after being shown what will happen before the end of the age, fell to the feet of the angel who shew him these things and wanted to worship him but the angel ordered him not to worship Jesus or the Spirit, He ordered him to worship the Father(God).

The Holy Spirit knows things the son does not know
The doctrine of the Holy Trinity makes God the highest followed by the Son and lastly the Spirit in position, this is very false because it is written that the Holy Spirit knows the depths of God, depths the Son does not know of for example the end of the world, this he replied when the disciples asked him when he will return and he said unto them "No one knows of that day, not me, not the angels but my Father who is in heaven". But the Holy Spirit is said to be able to search the depths of God, even secrets such as these, He is the witness of God on earth and He will be the prosecutor in that court that will determine the eternal fate of the souls of men.
The Holy Spirit is not a form that God chooses to reveal himself with on earth but he is a different person just like you and me, also the Father and the Son both personified during the transfiguration, Jesus apparel is seen being turned into snow white and the Father's terrifying voice is heard saying
"This is my beloved son with whom i am pleased with, listen to him".
Only God deserves the worship, it was all his plan to redeem mankind by sending his one and only begotten son. Jesus was executing God's plan as he has always done, be blessed.

I the first part of Hebrews it says the father has magnified the son and that there is no mame higher than the son.

And the father says to Jesus " thy throne o God is for ever and ever"

TimothyGodIsLove · Oct 16, 2021

Absolutely said:

So who gave Jesus all the authority in heaven and on earth? The name of the persona who did this is now below Jesus? This is very false because Jesus was commanded to sit on His right hand until God makes his enemies his footstool.

Absolutely · Oct 16, 2021

TimothyGodIsLove said:

God was mistaken?

Absolutely · Oct 16, 2021

Ok what denomination are you.

Say clearly and do not hide.

TimothyGodIsLove · Oct 16, 2021

Absolutely said:

All am saying is that Jesus is still under God's authority even if God gave him all that power. This means all except God are expected to submit to the authority of Jesus. As long as Jesus takes orders from God, he is God's Son by doing what God requires of him

DavidTree · Oct 16, 2021

TimothyGodIsLove said:

Question: Is it your desire to see God?
Answer: "No one has seen God at any time. The only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him."

Dear Lord Jesus, are you sure, maybe you heard this wrong, Moses saw the LORD.
Answer: Everyone who has heard the Father and learned from Him comes to Me, not that anyone has seen the Father except the One who is from God; only He has seen the Father.

Crazy stuff, this THREE can be ONE - who sees the Father- sees no one but the SON - only the BEST where the Spirit finds Rest

Anomaly of anomalies where does it End
Maybe from the Beginning my dear Friend
When chaos and darkness was upon the deep
The Spirit Hovered - the challenge not so steep
'Not by man's power nor by his might'
My Spirit will not fail - HE will take Flight
Down to Ground Zero's
Where we find many Nero's
Upon this One will I Look
My Son who is found written in the Book
My DOVE shall Rest upon Him who is BEST
So True and so too HE comes to me and you
Unless you shoo HIM away - for HE is a DOVE
The Eternal ONE whom we are to LOVE

GRACE_ambassador · Oct 16, 2021

OP: How to defend the doctrine of the Holy Trinity?

There is NO "how to defend" God's Doctrine! They Are TRUE; we prayerfully and Carefully present Them to others - they make their choice = belief or UNbelief!:

The Case FOR The Triune GodHead! Be Richly Encouraged In HIS Truth!

LactoseIntolerant · Oct 19, 2021

TimothyGodIsLove said:

Is it correct to assert that the concept of the Holy Trinity might have been invented by the Roman Catholic Church after all?
First let's define what this concept means,
The Holy Trinity is a doctrine that states that God has three personas namely:
a)The Father
b) The Son
c) The Holy Spirit
The doctrine goes further to state that each of these is God and they are one hence the Three in One and One in Three doctrine.
My challenge to this doctrine is if the doctrine holds then that makes Jesus and The Father equal which is false because
Jesus himself said this in John 14:28
"The Father is Greater than I".
The other challenge is that Jesus never emphasized the doctrine when he introduced the Lord's Prayer in Mathew 6:9-13.
The Holy Spirit is not digged into a lot, the picture of the Holy Spirit in the works of salvation comes in after Jesus ascends into the Father. The only verse that supports this doctrine is Mathew 28:19
"...baptise them in the name of the Father, The son and of The Holy Spirit".
I think this could be a big misinterpretation of why Jesus said this, there is no indication that from this Jesus is God or The Holy Spirit is also God, what are your thoughts and interpretation of the doctrine of the Holy Trinity?

Any trinity scholar beholden to truth will state that the concept of trinity is not in the bible. So the axiom that permits trinity to be interpreted is extra biblical. That should be argument enough against trinity. Do not add to the Scriptures. Do not take away from the Scriptures. Punishment will be harsh according to the Bible.

JaumeJ · Oct 19, 2021

TimothyGodIsLove said:

Is it correct to assert that the concept of the Holy Trinity might have been invented by the Roman Catholic Church after all?
First let's define what this concept means,
The Holy Trinity is a doctrine that states that God has three personas namely:
a)The Father
b) The Son
c) The Holy Spirit
The doctrine goes further to state that each of these is God and they are one hence the Three in One and One in Three doctrine.
My challenge to this doctrine is if the doctrine holds then that makes Jesus and The Father equal which is false because
Jesus himself said this in John 14:28
"The Father is Greater than I".
The other challenge is that Jesus never emphasized the doctrine when he introduced the Lord's Prayer in Mathew 6:9-13.
The Holy Spirit is not digged into a lot, the picture of the Holy Spirit in the works of salvation comes in after Jesus ascends into the Father. The only verse that supports this doctrine is Mathew 28:19
"...baptise them in the name of the Father, The son and of The Holy Spirit".
I think this could be a big misinterpretation of why Jesus said this, there is no indication that from this Jesus is God or The Holy Spirit is also God, what are your thoughts and interpretation of the doctrine of the Holy Trinity?

He *jesus Yeshua", thought it nothing to be made less than God for a time. paraphrased with understanding.

justbyfaith · Oct 19, 2021

LactoseIntolerant said:

I am a Trinity scholar beholden to the truth and I have given biblical substantiation for the doctrine of the Trinity in the following thread:

https://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/understanding-the-trinity-as-a-doctrine.201406/

How to defend the doctrine of the Holy Trinity

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