How the Pre-Trib Rapture Became Popular in the Modern Church

[Absolutely]

Note too, only pre-tribbers could be deceived by a false messiah since they believe he will somehow come 'secretly'--again if we look at the whole of scripture it is NOT talking about 'secretly' it is talking about SUDDENLY and UNEXPECTEDLY.

In Over 40 years of study and debate, the ONLY ones i have heard declare " secret rapture" are postribbers.

Very disengenuous.

 

[Laura798]

In Over 40 years of study and debate, the ONLY ones i have heard declare " secret rapture" are postribbers.

Very disengenuous.

In Over 40 years of study and debate, the ONLY ones i have heard declare " secret rapture" are postribbers.

Very disengenuous.

Absolutely--you must be here only to be an instigator if you think that--THAT is a HALLMARK of Pre-tribbers.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

@Laura798 's Post #2803 (regarding the Hebrew word for "WEEKS" in Daniel 9)...

The Hebrew word means "SEVENS" (aka "a set of seven")... whether "a set of seven DAYS" or "a set of seven YEARS" would be ascertained from the CONTEXT

(this [i.e. CONTEXT] is how we know it means "a set of 70 SEVENS of YEARS" [490 years total] and not "DAYS" [490 days total]).



IOW, it is the Hebrew word ITSELF that *means* "SEVENS"...




Just like the word for "YEARS" *means* "YEARS"

 

[Laura798]

Are you aware that Paul had a very deliberate pattern in his epistles? I betchya you didn't. Well let me tell you....

1) FIRSTLY he would lay out CORRECT DOCTRINE.
2) THEN he would lay on the exhortations to duty, observance and right behavior.

Case in point see Rom 12:1&2. Which came ONLY AFTER 11 CHAPTERS OF BUILDING DOCTINE. Paul's other epistles follow the same pattern.

You have no right to do #(2) because you have utterly failed to do #(1).......

God Complex

A god complex is an unshakable belief characterized by consistently inflated feelings of personal ability, privilege, or infallibility. A person with a god complex may refuse to admit the possibility of their error or failure, even in the face of irrefutable evidence, intractable problems or difficult or impossible tasks. The person is also highly dogmatic in their views, meaning the person speaks of their personal opinions as though they were unquestionably correct.

 

[Absolutely]

Absolutely--you must be here only to be an instigator if you think that--THAT is a HALLMARK of Pre-tribbers.

I am doing what everyone else here is doing.

It is a forum.

Stop with the instigation please

 

[cv5]

God Complex

A god complex is an unshakable belief characterized by consistently inflated feelings of personal ability, privilege, or infallibility. A person with a god complex may refuse to admit the possibility of their error or failure, even in the face of irrefutable evidence, intractable problems or difficult or impossible tasks. The person is also highly dogmatic in their views, meaning the person speaks of their personal opinions as though they were unquestionably correct.

So go see a shrink lady if it suits you....

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

2 Thes 1:9-10
These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, when He comes, in that Day, to be glorified in His saints and to be admired among all those who believe, because our testimony among you was believed.

Yes sir....there are your "bookends". Amazing stuff and great detective work.....

You know....just looking at the text, does the statement "because our testimony among YOU (the saved Church) was believed" imply that those who believe DURING the 70th week do so because of the Rapture event itself?
I mean to say that believers TODAY who GOT RAPTURED become a tremendous testimony (really a "sign") to those who come to belief DURING the 70th week?

What do you think?

Yes.

The text states, "... because the testimony of us to you was believed IN THAT DAY" (this is not speaking of the Thessalonians themselves... Right!)


Paul is CONTRASTING the TWO "beliefs" ppl WILL BE coming to IN / DURING / WITHIN the FUTURE "TRIB" yrs (the other being 2Th2:10-12... "God shall SEND TO THEM great delusion so that THEY should BELIEVE the LIE / the FALSE / the PSEUDEI" --certain ones, not 100% of the ppl existing in the trib yrs)

 

[peldom10]

Two candle sticks are two churches, but the churches are not identified by name.
Two olive trees means two annointed people, that comes from OT. These are very likely to be the two prophets from Rev 11, also not identified by name.






Yeah well they are wrong on this because they are ignoring that two churches are part of two witnesses.

Enoch and Elijah.

 

[Laura798]

So go see a shrink lady if it suits you....

I am doing what everyone else here is doing.

It is a forum.

Stop with the instigation please

What? You said post-tribbers believe in a 'secret rapture'--THAT is a pre-tribber belief--your response makes ZERO sense.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Yes.

... oh, and one more thing (for the moment), to this point (that you @cv5 had asked):

Zechariah 3:8

[compared with _______]



____________

... gotta go eat dinner...

 

[DavidTree]

Revelation /Great Tribulation


Uh HUh,
and you didnt answer the question ,by habit.(habitual)

God Bless!!!

I answered directly and in accordance with Scripture, which was given = His Body is not appointed to His wrath.

 

[peldom10]

Argh. I had decided to jump out of the rabbit hole and then made the mistake of responding to ONE question to a previous post---and now my day is GONE. This chat is like Christian Crack---or like potato chips--both empty calories. I don't feel anything I've shared has helped anyone and vice versa.

Ephesians 4:29
Let no corrupting talk come out of your mouths, but only such as is good for building up, as fits the occasion, that it may give grace to those who hear.
1 Thessalonians 5:11
Therefore encourage one another and build one another up, just as you are doing.
Romans 14:19
So then let us pursue what makes for peace and for mutual upbuilding.

How would you expect to know?

 

[rayzor]

I just thought it meant what it said. Luke 21:7 And they asked him, saying, Master, but when shall these things be?

So Christ actually answered their question and told them when all these things would be then told them they could escape them.

Reads pretty simple when you read what is actually said.

cV5 if you go to Simplicity route remember the three great Commandments.First is Deuteronomy 6:5

 

[peldom10]

In Over 40 years of study and debate, the ONLY ones i have heard declare " secret rapture" are postribbers.

Very disengenuous.

They would have too ..or self prove that they are wrong.

 

[rayzor]

Death to those who oppose and LIFE to those who have their hearts circumcised by IT.

may they find death to their old nature.

 

[Absolutely]

What? You said post-tribbers believe in a 'secret rapture'--THAT is a pre-tribber belief--your response makes ZERO sense.

No maam.

I am saying you guys invented it and ascribed it to pretribs.

Nobody i have ever seen believes secret rapture.

 

[DavidTree]

may they find death to their old nature.

and may they find Eternal Life through the circumcision performed by the Holy Spirit upon our hearts.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

@Laura798 's Post #2089 (my apologies, I'm slow at getting to each of these posts / points), where you'd said:

L798 said: [...] since I don't think anyone is really edified by any of this (many don't even read what has been written) and no one has changed their mind.

I dunno about that... it seems like earlier in this thread there was a member who had started out by saying he was undecided but was studying it... and just days later he said he'd come to understand the "pre-trib" perspective to be what scripture itself presents.



[I can't say what he sees/understands SINCE that time... he hasn't posted any further, that I am aware of anyway]




P.S. I do think there are many more who "READ" than COMMENT. = )

 

[rayzor]

@Laura798 's Post #2089 (my apologies, I'm slow at getting to each of these posts / points), where you'd said:



I dunno about that... it seems like earlier in this thread there was a member who had started out by saying he was undecided but was studying it... and just days later he said he'd come to understand the "pre-trib" perspective to be what scripture itself presents.



[I can't say what he sees/understands SINCE that time... he hasn't posted any further, that I am aware of anyway]




P.S. I do think there are many more who "READ" than COMMENT. = )

It's possible some of us may just be a computer program .They had those things back in my days the 90 dees and people where already getting fooled.Remenber all things work to together for those who god loves.Let god tell you despite what we might think or what we might be.God well tell what to do.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Laura is quoting another source here.

Had it been possible for the Father to permit sinful men (like Enoch or Elijah) to enter His presence in bodily form before Christ’s death and resurrection, then the Father would have had no need for Christ to die on the cross!

1. The death, burial, and resurrection of Christ were already ACCOMPLISHED FACTS in the divine foreknowledge of God and Christ. The Lamb of God had been slain from BEFORE the foundation of the world (1 Peter). So this argument has no merit.
2. If the Bible says that Enoch and Elijah were taken by God to Heaven, then that is indisputable. Since sinful men are perfected through the righteousness of Christ, this is a non-issue for God. "For with God nothing shall be impossible".

If the Father possessed another way to resurrect sinful men before Christ’s resurrection, then He would have had no reason to sacrifice His Son to make resurrection possible.

Already addressed above. The FACT that Moses and Elijah appeared at the Transfiguration meant that God had made full provision for them to appear in bodily form before Christ's resurrection.

Clearly, Christ’s death and resurrection were the only way to reconcile men to the Father, which precludes any possibility that Enoch or Elijah could be resurrected before Christ’s death and resurrection."

Now this is TOTAL BALONEY since the Bible already tells us that Enoch and Elijah were translated -- not resurrected -- to Heaven. "Translated" means raptured.