How the Pre-Trib Rapture Became Popular in the Modern Church

[rayzor]

Well, of course we are to be guided by the Holy Spirit--but people are often misguided by their own thoughts and ideas--again Scripture against Scripture, NOT doctrine against scripture.

I think you understand..You know scriptures says nothing of itself,,,good or bad,,Jesus said that the word was a two edged sword. It has been used by the bad guys to,,,.To kill to steal and to destroy.The other side of course is life and life of superlative abundances.

 

[cv5]

Great summary of the Jewish wedding ceremony here....
Yes, the Bridegroom will harpazo His betrothed BEFORE the judgements and wrath of the 70th week begin.

 

[DavidTree]

I think you understand..You know scriptures says nothing of itself,,,good or bad,,Jesus said that the word was a two edged sword. It has been used by the bad guys to,,,.To kill to steal and to destroy.The other side of course is life and life of superlative abundances.

Death to those who oppose and LIFE to those who have their hearts circumcised by IT.

 

[rayzor]

Dear Rayzor, those who were baptized were Noah and the other 7. The Ark represents Christ himself--we are saved from death by Christ--he is our covering. The number 8 in the Bible represents a new beginning, meaning a new order or creation, and man's true 'born again' event when he is resurrected from the dead into eternal life.

Egyptian where are old nature sin nature right? We have to take captive our thoughts and die to the old nature.Yes god did baptize the earth. Baptism is the new circumcision and better because it's not a respecter of persons.both men and woman can be baptized.Noah mean rest and was to take the curse from the land away.

 

[cv5]

I just thought it meant what it said. Luke 21:7 And they asked him, saying, Master, but when shall these things be?

So Christ actually answered their question and told them when all these things would be then told them they could escape them.

Reads pretty simple when you read what is actually said.

Hi Stilllearning.

Luke 21 must be approached with the UTMOST scrutiny. Why? Because Luke 21 differs radically from Matt 24 and Mark 13. How? Because ONLY LUKE describes the 70AD destruction of the Temple in detail per the question of Luke 21:6!

Key Scripture:
Luke 12:12
“But BEFORE all these things,..."

Please view Chuck's video. It is short, sweet and to the point. And undoubtedly correct. You probably have never heard of this teaching as of yet. ONLY WHEN you understand Luke 21:12 through 24 will you be able to understand end-time eschatology in its fullness and with accuracy. This is truly thrilling stuff.....enjoy!

 

[DavidTree]

Great summary of the Jewish wedding ceremony here....
Yes, the Bridegroom will harpazo His betrothed BEFORE the judgements and wrath of the 70th week begin.

Prepare Prepare
the Call is Loud and Clear
Today, hear His Voice
Harden not your heart
make the Right Choice
For sooner or later
will come the Hater
who will razzle and dazzle
all who are his chattle
Never mind them
Delusion will find them
But for me and my house
Blessings from Above
The Groom who is my Spouse

 

[cv5]

I am doing nothing but asking you a simple question did they ask him when these things will be?

Im off with my wife....will get back to you. But understand that a description of the RAPTURE EVENT per se is NOWHERE spoken to in Matt 24, Luke 21 or Mark 13...!

 

[DavidTree]

I am doing nothing but asking you a simple question did they ask him when these things will be?

But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, you will know that her desolation is near. 21Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those in the city get out, and let those in the country stay out of the city. 22For these are the days of vengeance, to fulfill all that is written.

23How miserable those days will be for pregnant and nursing mothers! For there will be great distress upon the land and wrath against this people. 24They will fall by the edge of the sword and be led captive into all the nations. And Jerusalem will be trodden down by the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.

The Return of the Son of Man
(Matthew 24:26–31; Mark 13:24–27)

25There will be signs in the sun and moon and stars, and on the earth dismay among the nations, bewildered by the roaring of the sea and the surging of the waves. 26Men will faint from fear and anxiety over what is coming upon the earth, for the powers of the heavens will be shaken.

27 At that time they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
28When these things begin to happen, stand up and lift up your heads, because your redemption is drawing near.”

Good Place to Stand

 

[cv5]

https://www.blueletterbible.org/lexicon/g3709/nkjv/mgnt/0-1/#lexResults

No wrath for the justified. Never no not for any saved believer any at any time. Including Daniels 70th week....

 

[Laura798]

The wrath = the destruction and judgment of the wicked. The tribulation is the time of trouble coming on the earth before Christ's return,

which if a believer is alive will have to go thru- some will survive since it says the dead in Christ will rise first, "and those of us who are still alive"--will be caught up together with Him in the air. Note that the dead are RISING--they are NOT coming down from heaven--"No one has ascended to heaven, but the Son."

All of the prophecies and words of Christ and the apostles are WARNINGS to believers, otherwise why are we told any of these things? If a hurricane is coming to the Philippines that would have no bearing on us in the U.S. It would be odd to tell us to prepare for their hurricane.

 

[ewq1938]

How would you read Luke 21:36, Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

To us that is just proof text. So how do you read it or where do you find that we may be reading it wrong?

In Matthew 24 he placed gathering of saints (which is rapture)as happening after the GT has ended so the above verse is not addressing rapture.

You can escape something by being strong enough to bear it:


1 Corinthians 10:13 There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to BEAR it.

One can escape something by being able to bear it. It is not a physical escape but a mental and spiritual one.

The other issue with Luke 21:36 is that the surrounding context is second coming, which pre-trib denies as being the timing of rapture. What the verse is telling us is that people will survive the great tribulation by escaping all the deception and Apostasy and will be able to stand before Christ on the day his second coming, the one and only coming which is loud and visible to whole world. That is pure post-trib.

 

[ewq1938]

I am doing nothing but asking you a simple question did they ask him when these things will be?

Christ didn't tell them date the things would happen so, he answered them but in his own way not in way they asked.

 

[Absolutely]

Dear Absolutely,

I'm thoroughly confused by this comment--how does it in anyway support an argument for your Pre-Trib position? When debating one's position FACTS should be put forth--attacking a person is what we see happening with Unbelievers against Believers--Liberals against conservatives--these things ought not be amongst Brothers and Sisters in Christ. This whole thread has become a battle and I don't see words against fellow believers as glorifying Christ or His kingdom. I really wish this site, made it clear how we are to present arguments--with civility, kindness, and respect. And presenting facts--NOT attacking the person presenting them.

I have plenty of support.

What is an " attack"?

Be specific.

 

[Absolutely]

And btw, Absolutely, there are many brilliant bible scholars who support a POST Trib Rapture--as the initiator of the thread stated there was no such doctrine of a pretrib rapture before Darby, which Schofield popularized--Christians read what the bible said and studied scripture against scripture.

There are brilliant atheists also.

Means nothing if they cannot connect the dots.

None of eschatology benefits from brilliant adherents to a failed doctrine.

 

[Absolutely]

There are brilliant atheists also.

Means nothing if they cannot connect the dots.

None of eschatology benefits from brilliant adherents to a failed doctrine.

And BTW

None of that darby origin is true.

Hardly anyone invokes that fairy tale that has been thoroghly debunked

 

[Laura798]

I have plenty of support.

What is an " attack"?

Be specific.

What do you mean? All you have to do is go back thru the thread and see--in particular your criticism of David Tree--the one where you say Post-trib has been debunked--how has it been debunked exactly? Certainly not here in this forum. There are so many responses that you present no FACTS only attacks. And I've already expressed what an attack is--attacking the person vs presenting facts to support your position.

 

[Laura798]

There are brilliant atheists also.

Means nothing if they cannot connect the dots.

None of eschatology benefits from brilliant adherents to a failed doctrine.

Only--you don't even realize you could be wrong--my point being, that they HAVE in fact connected the dots. Mormons believe their religion is true, so do Jehovah's Witnesses, and Muslims and Hindus--they believe their positions every much as you do. I'm surprised at the arrogance on this forum....truly.

Ask yourself this--are you here to further the truth of the gospel or just to argue?

 

[Absolutely]

Dear Absolutely,

I'm thoroughly confused by this comment--how does it in anyway support an argument for your Pre-Trib position? When debating one's position FACTS should be put forth--attacking a person is what we see happening with Unbelievers against Believers--Liberals against conservatives--these things ought not be amongst Brothers and Sisters in Christ. This whole thread has become a battle and I don't see words against fellow believers as glorifying Christ or His kingdom. I really wish this site, made it clear how we are to present arguments--with civility, kindness, and respect. And presenting facts--NOT attacking the person presenting them.

I bring verses.

Any challenge TO MY VERSES, IS NOT ONLY WELCOMED, BUT ENCOURAGED.

Your energy should be directed to those that go personal.

I have been called a liar and " your doctrine is from hell" from David tree.

My responses are very cool headed and cut at his cheery pocked doctrine of huge omissions.

 

[Absolutely]

What do you mean? All you have to do is go back thru the thread and see--in particular your criticism of David Tree--the one where you say Post-trib has been debunked--how has it been debunked exactly? Certainly not here in this forum. There are so many responses that you present no FACTS only attacks. And I've already expressed what an attack is--attacking the person vs presenting facts to support your position.

What i thought.

You have zero examples.

And no you put no meaning behind your " attack examples"

You are just policing me out of spite.

 

[Absolutely]

What do you mean? All you have to do is go back thru the thread and see--in particular your criticism of David Tree--the one where you say Post-trib has been debunked--how has it been debunked exactly? Certainly not here in this forum. There are so many responses that you present no FACTS only attacks. And I've already expressed what an attack is--attacking the person vs presenting facts to support your position.

Pure baloney

I took my time to lay out the pretrib rapture verse by verse.

You spouting falsely that i have not is extremely disengenuous.

Conversely, when challenged in SPECIFIC VERSES, DAVID TREE HAS CONSISTENTLY HURLED generalities and personal mess at me personally.

Then here you come as the forum police and can not discern what an attack is.

You just make it up.

Smh