Our new relationship to the law.

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Status
Not open for further replies.

justbyfaith

Well-known member
Sep 16, 2021
4,707
462
83
That would be replacing the work of Ht Holy Spirit in cleaning us with his baptism in washing us With the washing and renewal and in his spiritual circunmcusuion done by the hand of God not man.

Which is blasphemy of the spirit and trying to earn your salvation by works
Wow friend you really have a strange perspective.

You actually seem to think that what can save a person will in all reality damn him to hell.

I would only remind you of what it says in Isaiah 5:20.
 

BroTan

Active member
Sep 16, 2021
898
161
43
Good luck in trying to earn your salvation my friend. I will pray for you

I could say the same, but instead I'm going to go to 1 Timothy 1: 1:8 But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully; 1:9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, 1:10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;

Yeah ...so Paul is saying a whole lot here people. How can a person be disobedient in God's eyes. How can a person be unholy or a sinner, because sin is transgression of the law. Lets read it in (1John 3:4) Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. Now we have just read the biblical definition of sin, the transgression (breaking) of the law (commandments.) It doesn’t matter what you or I think sin is, it’s what God says sin is that counts.

Also Paul says in Romans 7 Now, Paul said in (Rom. 7:7, 12) (v.7) What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, THOU SHALT NOT COVET. Paul asked a question, is the law sin? He said God forbid, he said the only way that he knew what sin was, was by the law. (v.12) Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good. Why in the world would a Christian want to do away with something that God said is holy?

Paul said in (Rom. 4:15) Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression. If there is no law there is no sin.
 

BroTan

Active member
Sep 16, 2021
898
161
43
Of course, David did not die for his sin with Uriah and Bathsheba.
That's true David did not die, but understand the point of the story. David was not perfect, but he kept the law, statues and Judgement.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
I could say the same, but instead I'm going to go to 1 Timothy 1: 1:8 But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully; 1:9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, 1:10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;

Yeah ...so Paul is saying a whole lot here people. How can a person be disobedient in God's eyes. How can a person be unholy or a sinner, because sin is transgression of the law. Lets read it in (1John 3:4) Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. Now we have just read the biblical definition of sin, the transgression (breaking) of the law (commandments.) It doesn’t matter what you or I think sin is, it’s what God says sin is that counts.

Also Paul says in Romans 7 Now, Paul said in (Rom. 7:7, 12) (v.7) What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, THOU SHALT NOT COVET. Paul asked a question, is the law sin? He said God forbid, he said the only way that he knew what sin was, was by the law. (v.12) Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good. Why in the world would a Christian want to do away with something that God said is holy?

Paul said in (Rom. 4:15) Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression. If there is no law there is no sin.
Yep

The law was not made for me, I have the righteousness of Christ in me.

Maybe it was made for you?

Again. Good luck trying to save yourself.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
That's true David did not die, but understand the point of the story. David was not perfect, but he kept the law, statues and Judgement.
According to the requirement of the law given by Moses.

David did not keep the law.
 

BroTan

Active member
Sep 16, 2021
898
161
43
Jhn 1:17, For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

When :the law" is spoken of in holy scripture, it is not only speaking of the animal sacrifices that were instituted; but also of the ten commandments (also given by Moses) and extends to moral tenets also given in the New Testament. For it is written, that by the law is the knowledge of sin (Romans 3:20)
That's true, and that grace Jesus brought forth, took away the animal sacrificial law. Paul explained this in; (Heb.10:1, 9-10,18,26-27) (v.1) For the law (what law, the law of animal sacrifice?) having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect. (v.9) Then said he, (Jesus) Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first that he may establish the second. (v.10) By which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. 11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins: 12 but this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God; 13 from henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool. 14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

When Jesus died on the cross that was the end of the first covenant, which consisted of the blood of animals and the keeping of God’s commandments. And his death also brought in the second covenant, which consist of the blood of Jesus and the keeping of God’s commandments. (v.18) Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin. In other words, no more animals are going to die for your sins. (v.26) For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins.

Now do we understand what’s being said here? If you sin willfully after you have knowledge of what the truth is, no more animals are going to die for you. (v.27) But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. Now if you are being deceived into believing that once you are under God’s grace you no longer have to keep his commandments, all you have to look forward to is the day of judgement and the lake of fire (fiery indignation).
 

justbyfaith

Well-known member
Sep 16, 2021
4,707
462
83
Yep

The law was not made for me, I have the righteousness of Christ in me.

Maybe it was made for you?

Again. Good luck trying to save yourself.
Would you consider yourself to be a sinner?

If you do, then the law was made for you.
 

justbyfaith

Well-known member
Sep 16, 2021
4,707
462
83
That's true, and that grace Jesus brought forth, took away the animal sacrificial law. Paul explained this in; (Heb.10:1, 9-10,18,26-27) (v.1) For the law (what law, the law of animal sacrifice?) having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect. (v.9) Then said he, (Jesus) Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first that he may establish the second. (v.10) By which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. 11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins: 12 but this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God; 13 from henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool. 14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

When Jesus died on the cross that was the end of the first covenant, which consisted of the blood of animals and the keeping of God’s commandments. And his death also brought in the second covenant, which consist of the blood of Jesus and the keeping of God’s commandments. (v.18) Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin. In other words, no more animals are going to die for your sins. (v.26) For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins.

Now do we understand what’s being said here? If you sin willfully after you have knowledge of what the truth is, no more animals are going to die for you. (v.27) But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. Now if you are being deceived into believing that once you are under God’s grace you no longer have to keep his commandments, all you have to look forward to is the day of judgement and the lake of fire (fiery indignation).
No, we are no longer bound by the letter so that we have to keep His commandments but are obedient to the spirit of what is written (Romans 7:6).

For there is therefore now no condemnation for them who are in Christ Jesus; who walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit (Romans 8:1).

The New Covenant contains within it the keeping of God's commandments (Hebrews 8:8-10, Hebrews 10:16, Romans 8:7, Romans 8:4, 1 John 5:3, 2 John 1:6, Romans 13:8-10; Romans 5:5; 1 John 2:3-6) as concerning obedience.

As concerning condemnation, as believers we are now not under the law (Romans 6:14) are now dead to the law (Romans 7:4, Galatians 2:19), and are now delivered from the law (Romans 7:6).

For our sins are covered by the blood of Jesus (Romans 4:7) and therefore the Father looks down on us and sees the blood and righteousness of His Son; when He looks at us. So our relationship to the law has changed. It doesn't any longer point the finger at the believer, calling him a sinner (Romans 4:8). He is forgiven of past, present, and future sin.
 

justbyfaith

Well-known member
Sep 16, 2021
4,707
462
83
Above I have related how the Father sees our sins.

The Holy Ghost, on the other hand, His job is to sanctify us and to convict the world of sin and righteousness and of judgment.

So, the Holy Ghost deals with us according to our sins; He pinpoints our sins and reveals them to us so that we can confess them and be cleansed from all unrighteousness (1 John 1:7-9). And He utilizes the law to perform this work (Romans 3:20).
 

Blade

Well-known member
Nov 19, 2019
1,772
623
113
What is righteousness? Right standing with God. How do you get righteousness? By believing in Jesus. God can only declare man righteous "dikaioo".. from what it indicates. Calvinists and Arminians now dived. Calvinists state that in justification the righteousness of Christ is imputed to the sinner. The Arminians teach that God in one act of justification makes man righteous and then pronounces him righteous. Their reasoning is that God will not declare righteous what is not righteous. We know the Law was given through Moses(Moshe) to give us the "knowledge of sin". God knew that the Law could never saver us because of the weakness of our flesh. It could only give us the knowledge of sin's awful character. "Before God" and "in his sight" are significant in verse 19/20 of Chapt 3. All the world is guilty "before God" and no flesh is justified "in his sight". The Law has done its work. It could not justify it only condemned.

We know the old covenant brought death but the new covenant brings LIFE! One said the law may be compared to a scale which tells us how much we weigh. It will not add to or subtract from our weight. The Law discovers the fact of sin, exposing its presence and revealing its nature in order that God might prescribe the remedy.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
Would you consider yourself to be a sinner?

If you do, then the law was made for you.
Yep. And thats why I came to christ

Now I no longer need the schoolmaster

Why do you still need to be told your a sinner. Unless your still trying to earn your salvation?
 

justbyfaith

Well-known member
Sep 16, 2021
4,707
462
83
Yep. And thats why I came to christ

Now I no longer need the schoolmaster

Why do you still need to be told your a sinner. Unless your still trying to earn your salvation?
Here's the thing...

If anyone is born of God, they aren't a sinner any longer (1 John 3:9) in the sense of being one who commits sin.

While in the sense of being one who has indwelling sin (1 John 1:8), all of us continue to be sinners even after we have been born of God (1 Timothy 1:15).

If you are a sinner in the first sense, then the law still applies to you...

1Ti 1:9, Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
Here's the thing...

If anyone is born of God, they aren't a sinner any longer (1 John 3:9) in the sense of being one who commits sin.

While in the sense of being one who has indwelling sin (1 John 1:8), all of us continue to be sinners even after we have been born of God (1 Timothy 1:15).

If you are a sinner in the first sense, then the law still applies to you...

1Ti 1:9, Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,
Well if the law is for you, then I guess you better find grace soon my friend
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
12,284
6,656
113
Well if the law is for you, then I guess you better find grace soon my friend

i guess what some do not know is the Hebrew Bible and the Gospels and the Epistles were not all combined together until around 400 a.d.

until then, jews read the Law and the Prophets and the Psalms , and gentiles had the Gospels and the Epistles.....
 

Gideon300

Well-known member
Mar 18, 2021
5,296
3,125
113
The Holy Ghost utilizes the law to do the work of conviction in our hearts (Romans 3:20).
Only to a point. The Law is for unbelievers -1 Timothy 1:7-11

"Now we know that the law is good, if one uses it legitimately. We realize that law is not enacted for the righteous, but for the lawless and rebellious, for the ungodly and sinful, for the unholy and profane, for killers of father or mother, for murderers, or the sexually immoral, for homosexuals, for slave traders and liars and perjurers, and for anyone else who is averse to sound teaching that agrees with the glorious gospel of the blessed God, with which I have been entrusted."
 

Gideon300

Well-known member
Mar 18, 2021
5,296
3,125
113
Well if the law is for you, then I guess you better find grace soon my friend
i guess what some do not know is the Hebrew Bible and the Gospels and the Epistles were not all combined together until around 400 a.d.

until then, jews read the Law and the Prophets and the Psalms , and gentiles had the Gospels and the Epistles.....
How is that relevant?
 

Gideon300

Well-known member
Mar 18, 2021
5,296
3,125
113
Yes. As James tells us in James 1:21 Therefore, get rid of all moral filth and the evil that is so prevalent and humbly accept the word planted in you, which can save you. 22 Do not merely listen to the word, and so deceive yourselves. Do what it says.

James 1:25 But whoever looks intently into the perfect law that gives freedom, and continues in it—not forgetting what they have heard, but doing it—they will be blessed in what they do.

The law does many, many things for us, if you read of only one or two things about the law it is simple to misunderstand something so very important as the guidance the Lord gives us for living for Him. Then, by misunderstanding Paul and not reading all Paul says about law, then Paul becomes a path to blindness and death instead of the wonderful guide God gave us.

1 John 2:4 Whoever says “I know him” but does not keep his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him,
1 Timothy 1:

"8Now we know that the law is good, if one uses it legitimately. 9We realize that law is not enacted for the righteous, but for the lawless and rebellious, for the ungodly and sinful, for the unholy and profane, for killers of father or mother, for murderers, 10for the sexually immoral, for homosexuals, for slave traders and liars and perjurers, and for anyone else who is averse to sound teaching 11that agrees with the glorious gospel of the blessed God, with which I have been entrusted."

My Bible tells me that God deems me righteous in Christ. My behaviour is a result of who I am in Christ, not the way I become or remain a good Christian.
 

BroTan

Active member
Sep 16, 2021
898
161
43
No, we are no longer bound by the letter so that we have to keep His commandments but are obedient to the spirit of what is written (Romans 7:6).

For there is therefore now no condemnation for them who are in Christ Jesus; who walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit (Romans 8:1).

The New Covenant contains within it the keeping of God's commandments (Hebrews 8:8-10, Hebrews 10:16, Romans 8:7, Romans 8:4, 1 John 5:3, 2 John 1:6, Romans 13:8-10; Romans 5:5; 1 John 2:3-6) as concerning obedience.

As concerning condemnation, as believers we are now not under the law (Romans 6:14) are now dead to the law (Romans 7:4, Galatians 2:19), and are now delivered from the law (Romans 7:6).

For our sins are covered by the blood of Jesus (Romans 4:7) and therefore the Father looks down on us and sees the blood and righteousness of His Son; when He looks at us. So our relationship to the law has changed. It doesn't any longer point the finger at the believer, calling him a sinner (Romans 4:8). He is forgiven of past, present, and future sin.

Please copy and paste the scripture as I do. I agree we cover by the blood of Jesus and that's only if one get baptize. "Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ. Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, men and brethren, what shall we do? Then Peter said unto them, "repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost." (Acts 2:38).

But notice the first thing a person have to do...repent. If we truly love God, then we will obey "Every word" that proceeds out of his mouth (Matthew 4:4). Baptism is one of those words. In order to be baptized, certain events must take place: You must give up a lifestyle where sin has dominion, (ruler ship) over you. Sin according to 1 John 3:4, Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression (breaking) of the law. You must be taught "The Word", before you can adhere to God's commandments (judgments\statues). These laws are found in the Holy Bible; beginning with Genesis and ending with Revelation. You must believe what the bible says and finally, you must confess that Jesus is Lord. Once this has been accomplished, you are qualified to be baptized in the name of Jesus.


There's a process in how the Lord deal with us.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.