Obedient Woman

[Webers.Home]

.

What makes you think that the people commenting on this thread are
anything other than “committed Christians”?

It's been my experience-- during the 24 years I've been active on above forty
internet forums and message boards --that members are sometimes so self
absorbed that they forget viewers from all over the world, and every walk of
life, religion, and ideology, are eavesdropping.

Take for example this very thread. Thus far it has attracted 400+ views. I
seriously doubt that all 400+ views reflect the little handful of members
contributing comments.
_

 

[JaumeJ]

What makes you think people outside of your nation are eavesdropping? They are mostly member in good standing, and fellows in the Body of Jesus Yeshua. Please, your pigeon holing non citizens of your country as spies.

 

[Webers.Home]

.
Eavesdrop is an ambiguous word, viz; it isn't limited to cloak and dagger
covert operations.
_

 

[Lizzy]

.
• 1Pet 3:7b . . Give honor unto the wife, as unto the weaker vessel,

The Greek word for "honor" is time (tee-may') which means: a value, i.e.
money paid.

The word for "weaker" is asthenes (as-then-ace') which means: having no
strength, i.e. fragile.

And the word for "vessel" is skeuos (skyoo'-os) which can indicate anything
from a soup bowl to a cardboard box; in other words: a container.

Peter isn't saying women are physically weaker than men; but that Christian
husbands should exercise the same care with their wives as they would a
fragile antique worth thousands of dollars like, say, a Ming vase. Nobody in
their right mind handles a Ming vase like a farmer handles a 5-gallon bucket.
Not that some women couldn't take that kind of handling; it's just that its
unbecoming for a Christian man to lack sensitivity for his wife's feelings.

This particular assessed value isn't an intrinsic value, nor is it a deserved
value either; but rather, it's a gratuitous value. In other words: Christ
commands Christian husbands to categorize their wives up there with
Dresden china even if she's as tough as a female cop and/or a UFC mixed
martial artist the likes of Rhonda Rousey-- and this is not a choice; no, it's
not a choice; it's an order.

Christian husbands who treat their Skil saws and their tomato plants with
more care and concern than they treat their wives can just forget about
associating with God on any meaningful level.
_

I appreciate what you wrote. I agree that 'weaker" doesn't mean less strong or of less value, but that it implies a man to be more sensitive to his wife emotionally. That should be easy if they honestly love each other and value them. You would never want to hurt the other person, or make them feel not valued.

 

[Webers.Home]

.
• 1Pet 3:6 . . Sarah obeyed Abraham, calling him lord; and you have
become her daughters if you do what is right without being frightened by
any fear.

According to that, Sarah's submission to Abraham was voluntary, i.e. she
was neither coerced nor intimidated. Abraham didn't have to break Sarah's
spirit by violence, neglect, or abuse. In other words: Sarah wasn't a well
trained wife as if she'd been to obedience school like a pet dog; or roped,
corralled, saddled, ridden down, and taught to respond to reins like a wild
mustang.

That's very interesting because Sarah's original name was Sarai (Gen 17:15)
which in Hebrew means dominative, i.e. domineering. I can't imagine any
parent tagging their little girl with a bossy name like that, but apparently it
was appropriate, viz; baby Sarai must've been a crabby little tyke right from
the get-go.

I don't know how or why it came about, but somewhere along the line in
their relationship; Sarah decided within herself that it was far better for the
home to negotiate with her husband rather than destroying his peace of
mind with ultimatums, walk-outs, foot stomping, looking at him with
daggers, silent treatments, withholding conjugal rights, serving cold food,
grumpiness, assertiveness, stone walling, brow beating, chafing, nagging,
slamming doors, throwing hissy fits, and likely a number of other methods
that toxic wives employ to manipulate their men.

In other words: Sarah decided to exercise diplomacy in her relationship with
Abraham; and the important point to note is that she chose that route
voluntarily, i.e. by simply making up her own mind about it.
_

 

[Dino246]

.
• 1Pet 3:6 . . Sarah obeyed Abraham, calling him lord; and you have
become her daughters if you do what is right without being frightened by
any fear.

According to that, Sarah's submission to Abraham was voluntary, i.e. she
was neither coerced nor intimidated. Abraham didn't have to break Sarah's
spirit by violence, neglect, or abuse. In other words: Sarah wasn't a well
trained wife as if she'd been to obedience school like a pet dog; or roped,
corralled, saddled, ridden down, and taught to respond to reins like a wild
mustang.

That's very interesting because Sarah's original name was Sarai (Gen 17:15)
which in Hebrew means dominative, i.e. domineering. I can't imagine any
parent tagging their little girl with a bossy name like that, but apparently it
was appropriate, viz; baby Sarai must've been a crabby little tyke right from
the get-go.

I don't know how or why it came about, but somewhere along the line in
their relationship; Sarah decided within herself that it was far better for the
home to negotiate with her husband rather than destroying his peace of
mind with ultimatums, walk-outs, foot stomping, looking at him with
daggers, silent treatments, withholding conjugal rights, serving cold food,
grumpiness, assertiveness, stone walling, brow beating, chafing, nagging,
slamming doors, throwing hissy fits, and likely a number of other methods
that toxic wives employ to manipulate their men.

In other words: Sarah decided to exercise diplomacy in her relationship with
Abraham; and the important point to note is that she chose that route
voluntarily, i.e. by simply making up her own mind about it.
_

Provocative, but you nailed it.

 

[Gideon300]

Sadly, from my own experience, men see that as a reason to see women as inferior and to be abused.

All men? All the men you know? All the men you've ever met? How about the men who risk their lives rescuing people from fires, who confront terrorists, who go to war to defend nations? How about the men who have died shielding their wives and children from rampaging shooters? How about the men who work themselves to exhaustion to keep their family fed and clothed?

Men and women are different, but there are women who are wicked and men who are just as bad. Every adulterous relationship has both a man and a woman involved. Every failed relationship has fault on both sides. I know a woman who married someone for his money, with the express intent of divorcing him as soon as she could. How many women lie about who is the real father of their child? More than enough. You think women have little power? Go to the department store. Check out the area devoted to women's clothing compared to men's. Retail knows where the real power lies.

 

[Webers.Home]

.
• Eph 5:23-24 . . For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the
head of the church, his body, of which he is the savior. Now as the church
submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in
everything.

Christians, no less, have tried to circumvent that requirement by quoting
Paul to refute Paul; for example Gal 3:26-28

But if we were to make Gal 3:26-28 a rule in family affairs; then Christian
marriages would be same-sex unions; and that, to say the least, is quite
unacceptable.

Though both husband and wife are equals as believers, and equally Christ's
subjects, they are definitely not equals in marriage though they be one
flesh; just as Christ and his Father are not equals in the Godhead though
they be one deity.
_

 

[Gideon300]

I see obedience demanded in a woman throughout the Bible. It is in the Qur'an Surah 4:34. Do these works call for absolute obedience, or is there a burden on the male also to not be overbearing and mean?

A good relationship will be harmonious. However, the man is ultimately responsible. So if he decides to buy a new car, for example, then the wife may object, but to harp on about it is wrong. Let him make a mistake. He answers to God. The woman does not. He will learn something.

I would recommend anyone in a relationship or contemplating marriage look up Mark Gungor. He's brilliant and extremely funny as well, a rare combination. One of his series is entitled "How to stay married and not kill anyone". Another is "Laugh your way to a better marriage". There are many on youtube or you can buy DVD's.

 

[rayzor]

men and woman yeah it's a different kind of strength like a butterfly to an elephant

 

[Gideon300]

A man must respect his wife, according to the Word, and things may be discussed in the home. All of this is clear in the Word when people do not distort the teachigs.

The buck for decision making stops with the husband. He is responsible before God.

 

[rayzor]

The buck for decision making stops with the husband. He is responsible before God.

not all man are strong that way. sometimes it has o be the woman.

 

[NotmebutHim]

A few thoughts:

I tend to think that "submit" has a broader definition than "obey".

As mentioned above, Peter stated that Sarah obeyed Abraham, calling him "lord". The context is that she did so VOLUNTARILY and that Godly women should do the same.

Paul said that wives are to "submit" to their own husbands. He didn't use the word "obey" in that passage (at least not based on how the Scriptures were translated into English). When it comes to family relationships, the only time that Paul used the word for "obey" was in reference to children and their parents. Speaking of which, by virtue of obeying their parents, children are in effect submitting also. So, obedience and submission CAN go together, but they're not necessarily synonymous.

 

[Katia]

not all man are strong that way. sometimes it has o be the woman.

It is too bad that Belief and Psychology are often at odds. I have to carefully choose where to talk about things like the Myers-Briggs personality type, yet for me it often explains things where religion fails.

 

[rayzor]

It is too bad that Belief and Psychology are often at odds. I have to carefully choose where to talk about things like the Myers-Briggs personality type, yet for me it often explains things where religion fails.

All truth is from god.

 

[Katia]

All truth is from god.

Agreed. I do not understand the sad handling of Schizophrenics', Bipolar and others.

 

[Dino246]

Agreed. I do not understand the sad handling of Schizophrenics', Bipolar and others.

Are you referring to the misguided practice of treating them as demonized?

 

[Katia]

Are you referring to the misguided practice of treating them as demonized?

Or excluding them entirely. There are drugs that help but they are not fool proof.

 

[rayzor]

Agreed. I do not understand the sad handling of Schizophrenics', Bipolar and others.

mental illness always has Fallen Angels involved, in at various levels

 

[Katia]

mental illness always has Fallen Angels involved, in at various levels

So you don't respect the practice of Medicine? Were you vaccinated? Would you rather die of Covid?