For the Men: Would You Choose Single Fatherhood Over Abortion if Given the Choice?

[seoulsearch]

Hey Everyone,

Someone brought up an important point in the "Why Are Women Expected to be the Gatekeepers of Virginity?" thread.

This poster pointed out that many women are choosing to commit the sin of abortion after fornication, creating, as the poster said, "about as bad a combo as you can get."

For whatever reason, I have known a few women (through work settings) who have had abortions and have heard their reasons for doing so, and have seen the sorrow for doing so. As an adopted child myself, I listen to them because I always wonder if many years ago, my own birth mother might have considered doing the same thing while carrying me.

I am curious as to how the men here on CC feel about this issue.

* If you were in a situation in which the woman you were involved with became pregnant (whether married or single, as married people get abortions, too,) and for whatever reason, she did not want to carry the baby to term, would you fight for the right to have that baby born, then take the child and raise him or her completely by yourself? Why or why not

* Would you just step back and allow the mother to make the decision? Why or why not?

* If you were granted custody of the child, would you grant the mother partial custody or visitation rights? Why or why not?

* Would you take the mother to court for her part of the financial support of the child?

I have known one man whose girlfriend aborted their child without telling him, and another man who took the mother of his child to court for visitation rights because she didn't want anything to do with him (he also pays for his child's financial needs voluntarily), so I've had a glimpse into how these things have affected the men involved very deeply.

I fully support a father's right and decision to save the life of his child, but am wondering how men feel about taking on the task of becoming a single father.

What would you choose to do in that situation?

All are welcome to post -- although this is a question specifically for the men, the ladies are most welcome to answer with their observations and viewpoints, too.

Because this is a very sensitive subject, I'm going to also post a poll as a way of allowing those who might not want to answer publicly to still have a voice in this conversation. It will be anonymous and multiple choice in case you identify with more than one answer.

HOWEVER, please do not let the poll be a substitution for a discussion. If you are willing, please share your reasons as to why you chose the answer(s) you did here. It will be impossible for me to include every answer someone might give (and the polling function only allows a certain number of answers anyway), so if you don't see your answer in the poll, please be sure to post it here as well.

I'm looking forward to seeing the discussion this will bring about.

 

[JustJames]

This is pretty heavy. I count my lucky stars that I'm not in that position but I would have to say ultimately it's the woman's choice.

 

[seoulsearch]

This is pretty heavy. I count my lucky stars that I'm not in that position but I would have to say ultimately it's the woman's choice.

The thing for me is, I hear a lot of people (both men and women) talking about the evils of abortion, and of course I agree.

I always throw in that I'm adopted to point out that I am very aware that an abortion could have ended my life and made me just another statistic.

What I DON'T hear about are people (both men and women,) who are saying, "I am completely against abortion -- therefore, I will step up and raise one of the many children who have nearly fallen victim to it, even if it means I have to take on all the emotional, spiritual, and financial responsibilities that go along with it."

Speaking against something is a great starting point. But how do people feel about the follow-through?

So let's say we do save every child from abortion.

One of the questions I'm asking in this thread is, who is volunteering to then take them in and raise them in loving, Christian homes?

Insisting that a woman carry a child to term does not automatically mean that the child should stay either the birth mother or even father, depending upon the circumstances.

So what do we do then?

The disaster of the foster care system is a just a glimpse into what happens when talk is not followed through with action.

 

[seoulsearch]

This is pretty heavy. I count my lucky stars that I'm not in that position but I would have to say ultimately it's the woman's choice.

James, I just want to say, thank you for having the courage to answer so honestly.

I hope others will as well.

 

[JustJames]

Personally I would not raise someone else's child. That's just my honest answer. If I'm the father though I'd do my duty and raise the child even if it was unplanned. If my girlfriend/wife decided to abort, I can disagree with it but I can't really stop her. See what I mean?

 

[mindfulzen]

The option of agreeing to put the child up for adoption is missing.

 

[seoulsearch]

Personally I would not raise someone else's child. That's just my honest answer. If I'm the father though I'd do my duty and raise the child even if it was unplanned. If my girlfriend/wife decided to abort, I can disagree with it but I can't really stop her. See what I mean?

You are certainly not alone in your opinion.

I am adopted by parents who are not even my own race. All my life, people have asked me, "But what about your 'real' parents?"

I have real parents, and they are the parents I'm talking about that I proudly claim now.

My birth parents, for whatever reason, made the decision to abandon their me as their child. I don't know their circumstances and have learned over the years to try not to hold it against them, as God tells us to let go and forgive.

I have heard many, many people say that they could never raise a child who was "not their own," that adoption is "unnatural," and that the only true children that count are biological ones.

I understand this.

But every now and then, God does a miracle. (After all, Moses was also adopted, and Jesus was adopted by Joseph.)

I told God once, if my birth mother and father ever came looking for me, I would have to call them some kind of respectful title from their own language and culture, but I could never call them "Mom and Dad."

The ironic thing to me is that I could never see my biological parents as my "Mom and Dad," because my REAL parents were a young white couple who started out in a $5000 trailer who cried out to God for a child.

And as far as I'm concerned, they are the only "Mom and Dad" that I have.

BUT, I do understand that people think differently and that biological ties are very important to most people.

It's just that I don't have them and never will, and yet I know I couldn't love these two people any more than I do, even if we had the same genes.

 

[seoulsearch]

The option of agreeing to put the child up for adoption is missing.

Excellent point, and I'm glad you brought this up.

Or, the father could fight for the right for the child to live, then put the child up for adoption.

Good to see you Mindful.

But I thought you had said you were putting me on Ignore?

 

[seoulsearch]

The option of agreeing to put the child up for adoption is missing.

I used up all the possible options allowed for the poll (so I would have had to subtract one answer to include this one,) so I'm glad people are posting and bringing up answers that there wasn't any room for.

 

[Lynx]

This is a heavy topic to get smacked with on my lunch break...

I have no idea in the world what I would choose to do.

This is exactly why I have never messed around with sex outside of marriage. Too much drama for me to comprehend, let alone deal with.

If somehow I did get involved in this situation, like if we divorced or something, I would probably want to fight for the child's right to live. I'm not sure how I would put my belief into action though. I hope I never have to decide.

 

[JustJames]

You are certainly not alone in your opinion.

I am adopted by parents who are not even my own race. All my life, people have asked me, "But what about your 'real' parents?"

I have real parents, and they are the parents I'm talking about that I proudly claim now.

My birth parents, for whatever reason, made the decision to abandon their me as their child. I don't know their circumstances and have learned over the years to try not to hold it against them, as God tells us to let go and forgive.

I have heard many, many people say that they could never raise a child who was "not their own," that adoption is "unnatural," and that the only true children that count are biological ones.

I understand this.

But every now and then, God does a miracle. (After all, Moses was also adopted, and Jesus was adopted by Joseph.)

I told God once, if my birth mother and father ever came looking for me, I would have to call them some kind of respectful title from their own language and culture, but I could never call them "Mom and Dad."

The ironic thing to me is that I could never see my biological parents as my "Mom and Dad," because my REAL parents were a young white couple who started out in a $5000 trailer who cried out to God for a child.

And as far as I'm concerned, they are the only "Mom and Dad" that I have.

BUT, I do understand that people think differently and that biological ties are very important to most people.

It's just that I don't have them and never will, and yet I know I couldn't love these two people any more than I do, even if we had the same genes.

I'm not in the camp to say it is unnatural or anything like that. I won't take it to that extreme. Just my personal choice. Certainly there are better men out there than me. Yes I agree, that couple that adopted you will be more Mom and Dad than your birth parents. Kudos to them!

 

[seoulsearch]

Personally I would not raise someone else's child. That's just my honest answer. If I'm the father though I'd do my duty and raise the child even if it was unplanned. If my girlfriend/wife decided to abort, I can disagree with it but I can't really stop her. See what I mean?

I often wonder if the principle of Cause and Effect is why we Christians might not see a lot of change or reform in some of the areas that people are passionate about.

I have talked to a lot of people who are very zealous in fighting against abortion, which is certainly noble.

But I also wonder about the flip side of the issue, and wonder if God is asking us, "Ok, but who is going to take in and raise all the children we save from being aborted?" Because it can't be assumed that the biological parents should be always be the ones who are left to raise these children.

I am certainly not saying that abortion should be allowed because we don't have enough people to take in unwanted children.

But I do wonder if the fact that we don't have a proportionate amount of people fighting from both sides of the coin (fighting to end abortion AND fighting to adopt children who fall through the cracks) could be a key part as to what's holding us back.

 

[mindfulzen]

Excellent point, and I'm glad you brought this up.

Or, the father could fight for the right for the child to live, then put the child up for adoption.

Good to see you Mindful.

But I thought you had said you were putting me on Ignore?

I decided not to ignore you yet. And would not have mattered on a new thread. We all see the newly created threads. This one was about abortion, so I had to reply. I would not fight the woman in the courts or argue, so it would have to be agreement. So cannot vote.

 

[seoulsearch]

These are always the types of underlying questions about hot topics that interest me.

I hear a lot of people talking about how bad abortion is, and how evil it is that women are getting abortions.

I am certainly not disagreeing with this in any way. This is why I point out that I'm adopted -- I have the perspective that abortion could have very well ended my life.

But what I NEVER seem to hear are people saying, "YES!!! I WILL STAND UP AND BE A TRUE PARENT TO A CHILD WHO WOULD OTHERWISE FALL VICTIM TO ABORTION!!"

And so what I am asking the men here is, if you are against abortion, would you be one of the very few who would take on that responsibility with your own child?

I am NOT trying to turn this into a gender issue.

But the thing is, we see so many more women who have taken on the role of being the single mother.

So what I'm asking is, Gentlemen, would you be willing to change the societal norm and take on the role of a single father of your own children?

What would happen in society if we had just as many single fathers as there are single mothers because the men stepped in and fought to prevent the casting away of their own children?

 

[seoulsearch]

I decided not to ignore you yet. And would not have mattered on a new thread. We all see the newly created threads. This one was about abortion, so I had to reply. I would not fight the woman in the courts or argue, so it would have to be agreement. So cannot vote.

I had to laugh at this a little.

Yet another reason why I don't take it to heart when someone tells me they're putting me on Ignore.

Carry on!

 

[cinder]

I decided not to ignore you yet. And would not have mattered on a new thread. We all see the newly created threads. This one was about abortion, so I had to reply. I would not fight the woman in the courts or argue, so it would have to be agreement. So cannot vote.

Actually when you ignore someone it also hides all the threads they start. Kind of a nice feature. The ignore button really does a good job of hiding the people that you don't want to see.

 

[seoulsearch]

Actually when you ignore someone it also hides all the threads they start. Kind of a nice feature. The ignore button really does a good job of hiding the people that you don't want to see.

I had thought this too, and wanted to check since Mindfulzen had said he was putting me on Ignore.

I wanted to make sure I wasn't misunderstanding exactly how the Ignore function works.

 

[CS1]

Hey Everyone,

Someone brought up an important point in the "Why Are Women Expected to be the Gatekeepers of Virginity?" thread.

This poster pointed out that many women are choosing to commit the sin of abortion after fornication, creating, as the poster said, "about as bad a combo as you can get."

For whatever reason, I have known a few women (through work settings) who have had abortions and have heard their reasons for doing so, and have seen the sorrow for doing so. As an adopted child myself, I listen to them because I always wonder if many years ago, my own birth mother might have considered doing the same thing while carrying me.

I am curious as to how the men here on CC feel about this issue.

* If you were in a situation in which the woman you were involved with became pregnant (whether married or single, as married people get abortions, too,) and for whatever reason, she did not want to carry the baby to term, would you fight for the right to have that baby born, then take the child and raise him or her completely by yourself? Why or why not

* Would you just step back and allow the mother to make the decision? Why or why not?

* If you were granted custody of the child, would you grant the mother partial custody or visitation rights? Why or why not?

* Would you take the mother to court for her part of the financial support of the child?

I have known one man whose girlfriend aborted their child without telling him, and another man who took the mother of his child to court for visitation rights because she didn't want anything to do with him (he also pays for his child's financial needs voluntarily), so I've had a glimpse into how these things have affected the men involved very deeply.

I fully support a father's right and decision to save the life of his child, but am wondering how men feel about taking on the task of becoming a single father.

What would you choose to do in that situation?

All are welcome to post -- although this is a question specifically for the men, the ladies are most welcome to answer with their observations and viewpoints, too.

Because this is a very sensitive subject, I'm going to also post a poll as a way of allowing those who might not want to answer publicly to still have a voice in this conversation. It will be anonymous and multiple choice in case you identify with more than one answer.

HOWEVER, please do not let the poll be a substitution for a discussion. If you are willing, please share your reasons as to why you chose the answer(s) you did here. It will be impossible for me to include every answer someone might give (and the polling function only allows a certain number of answers anyway), so if you don't see your answer in the poll, please be sure to post it here as well.

I'm looking forward to seeing the discussion this will bring about.

Women are not God said both men and women are not to fornicate. The result of men and women having sexual relations is Children Duh!.

Abortion has been a remedy for many different reasons yet God sees it as only one way. Any man who forces women to have an abortion over them and threats to living her will answer to God and most likely will not stay with the very person they demanded this of. It is abuse and the women suffering from coe-dependency.

Fathers were given a pass via Welfare AND if they paid the child support meant that all they had to do. That is not being a father.

My parents were divorced and I saw FIRST HAND OUT THIS WAS A PLAN TO BREAK UP THE FAMILY UNIT.
The of the rebellious '60s and sexual revolution brought on pain and separation.

 

[cinder]

I often wonder if the principle of Cause and Effect is why we Christians might not see a lot of change or reform in some of the areas that people are passionate about.

I have talked to a lot of people who are very zealous in fighting against abortion, which is certainly noble.

But I also wonder about the flip side of the issue, and wonder if God is asking us, "Ok, but who is going to take in and raise all the children we save from being aborted?" Because it can't be assumed that the biological parents should be always be the ones who are left to raise these children.

I am certainly not saying that abortion should be allowed because we don't have enough people to take in unwanted children.

But I do wonder if the fact that we don't have a proportionate amount of people fighting from both sides of the coin (fighting to end abortion AND fighting to adopt children who fall through the cracks) could be a key part as to what's holding us back.

I've been thinking about this too as certain news sites have been going crazy over the Texas abortion law. If we ever do get to the point where we can ban abortion, what happens to the unwanted children and their mothers? Does it just move underground making abortions even less regulated and more risky for desperate young women ( the back-alley abortion)? Are there a bunch of kids growing up with parents who will tell them " You're not supposed to exist. I didn't want you but they wouldn't let me kill you before you were born." ? Or does the already overburndened social work system get a hugely increased load of children surrendered (or just abandonded at fire stations etc.) by their parents and what sorts of changes would that cause for society? I don't see any of those outcomes as being good.

But even worse would be the government deciding who was fit to be parents and who got which children for everyone before any problems could arise so .... I don't think there is a good solution beyond people need to learn to exercise a modicum of responsibility in their sexual behavior and remember that biologically one of the main purposes of sex is to make babies.

 

[seoulsearch]

I've been thinking about this too as certain news sites have been going crazy over the Texas abortion law. If we ever do get to the point where we can ban abortion, what happens to the unwanted children and their mothers? Does it just move underground making abortions even less regulated and more risky for desperate young women ( the back-alley abortion)? Are there a bunch of kids growing up with parents who will tell them " You're not supposed to exist. I didn't want you but they wouldn't let me kill you before you were born." ? Or does the already overburndened social work system get a hugely increased load of children surrendered (or just abandonded at fire stations etc.) by their parents and what sorts of changes would that cause for society? I don't see any of those outcomes as being good.

But even worse would be the government deciding who was fit to be parents and who got which children for everyone before any problems could arise so .... I don't think there is a good solution beyond people need to learn to exercise a modicum of responsibility in their sexual behavior and remember that biologically one of the main purposes of sex is to make babies.

I was raised in a family of "movers and shakers." Now I myself am not one of them (I work best as a worker drone FOR a respectable mover and shaker,) but what it taught me was that with every plan, issue, or intent, you have to think at least 8 steps ahead and do every thing you can to expect the unexpected, and be prepared for it. Yes, we rely on faith, but the practical issues can't be ignored.

I have seen plenty of plans with good intentions stopped dead in their tracks or have to take an entirely different course because the people pushing them either didn't think about the fallout, or came across something they didn't anticipate.

For example, I've heard many people say, "I'm going to start my own business, and it's going to be wonderful! I'm going to work my own hours and decide my own salary." It's certainly an admirable ambition. But the things I'm immediately thinking about are: Do you know how much money it's going to take to start one? If you don't have it, how will you raise it, and how will you survive if you have to put all your current resources into it? Do you realize most businesses fail, or take 3-5 years to turn a profit? What will you live on until then? What kinds of permits, licenses, and legal contracts are you going to need to start and maintain this?

I think social issues work in a very similar fashion, which you effectively illustrated in your post.

It's great to rally up around an important issue, but it has to be kept in mind that even if you see the change you'd like to see, there is a whole line of domino issues behind it and will have to be dealt with too.

I think a lot of people only prepare for what they can immediately see in front of them, and are either too tired or too unaware to address the fallout that will always come even from the best-intended policies.