Once saved always saved (OSAS) debunked

[Pilgrimshope]

[

The Holy Spirit convicts the world of sin and righteousness and judgment.

The bolded words above from Ephesians 5 is ‘descriptive’ of unbelievers and does not negate Ephesians 1:13-14.

That’s exactly what you are doing.

Again, ‘descriptive’ of unbelievers. Galatians 5:21 ..those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. (NASB)

1 John 3:9 - No one who has been born of God practices sin, because His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin continually, because he has been born of God. - *Hermeneutics.*

In 1 Corinthians 6:9-11 we see a similar list of sins and Paul explains that don’t you know that the unrighteous (did you see that?) will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.

Ephesians 1:13-14 along with the rest of Paul’s letters are perfectly acceptable when properly interpreted. You seem to have a difficult time properly harmonizing scripture with scripture before reaching your conclusion on doctrine.

I definately have a difficult time following you in circles for sure I’m not sure that means I don’t get what the Bible says though it means I have trouble following the circles your going in to explain statements of scripture away by the time your explanations come back around I’m lost and don’t even know what it is your saying honestly but I have the same problem with jp also It’s not surprising

“In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭1:13-14‬ ‭KJV‬‬

that word of truth is found here

“Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.”
‭‭John‬ ‭18:37‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Sure if we abide here

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

accepting the promises of the spirit

“It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭6:63‬ ‭KJV‬‬

we can be confident but that’s a condition based upon our abiding in the gospel of we abide in him we’re safe if we go elsewhere and deny his word we don’t have anything but judgement ahead

 

[posthuman]

i know Whom i have believed and am persuaded that He is able to keep that which i have committed unto Him against that day

 

[Pilgrimshope]

i know Whom i have believed and am persuaded that He is able to keep that which i have committed unto Him against that day

and you should because you don’t reject his word and create a different path

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

You received the promise of his word of life and so when you read Paul you hear him

“There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭8:1-2‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭6:63‬ ‭KJV‬‬

If we don’t reject the gospel we have security in Christ

 

[posthuman]

lol yeah you know how you explain everything away forminstance you went on a long explaination of this and explained it right away ? That’s not how to understand anything this actually is

For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame. For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God: But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.”

‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭6:4-8‬

THIS IS ACTUALLY HOW TO UNDERSTAND IT

Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.

Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you. Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.

I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.”

‭‭John‬ ‭15:2-6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

So we can either hear Christs word which is the truth or reject it and explain Our own delusions coming from a grace book That’s lead us far astray

It is only possible for me to fall away if He fails to keep me.
All my hope is in Him.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

It is only possible for me to fall away if He fails to keep me.
All my hope is in Him.

correct but I bet you’ll never be willing to deny what he said huh ? Even when you come up short there’s no sword on earth that would turn you from his word that’s where that assurance lives and breathes big brother

 

[Icedaisey]

What about if we continue in sin ?

“For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭10:26-27, 29‬ ‭KJV‬‬

I think I’m hearing you say those in Christ are secure and I agree but what about those who part from Christ and his word are they secure and saved ?

Yes.
Those who are called by God can never be lost. God knew who would heed his call to Salvation before the foundation of the world.

If Christ's sacrifice didn't insure our eternal security in him, where would we be?

God forgave our sins and shall remember them no more.


Those who are in Christ don't make a habit of sinning. If we do slip, we have a mediator between us and God. The spirit that knows our heart because we are sealed unto the last day.

If we backslide, if we stop believing, we are still sealed. God doesn't make mistakes. He is the Alpha and Omega. He knows everything eternally.

If we could overcome God's authority, Jesus would have never promised those whom the father gives him he will never lose. And no one can take us from his hand.

Who could even try? If no one can, that means not even we can overcome God's will for us.

If we could abrogate God's plans by our choices, he wouldn't be God. We would.

 

[Icedaisey]

It is only possible for me to fall away if He fails to keep me.
All my hope is in Him.

And he promised he would never lose you or fail to keep you.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Yes.
Those who are called by God can never be lost. God knew who would heed his call to Salvation before the foundation of the world.

If Christ's sacrifice didn't insure our eternal security in him, where would we be?

God forgave our sins and shall remember them no more.


Those who are in Christ don't make a habit of sinning. If we do slip, we have a mediator between us and God. The spirit that knows our heart because we are sealed unto the last day.

If we backslide, if we stop believing, we are still sealed. God doesn't make mistakes. He is the Alpha and Omega. He knows everything eternally.

If we could overcome God's authority, Jesus would have never promised those whom the father gives him he will never lose. And no one can take us from his hand.

Who could even try? If no one can, that means not even we can overcome God's will for us.

If we could abrogate God's plans by our choices, he wouldn't be God. We would.

so this doesn’t apply ?

“But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God; Who will render to every man according to his deeds:

To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;

But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:

For there is no respect of persons with God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭2:5-11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

I’m not sure that Jesus dying and raising up is going to save us if we reject his word I’d rather know this and repent

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

do you see how he gave us a promise there ? It’s based on accepting his word just as all of creation came from his word the new creation does also . I’m pretty sure that Satan knows Jesus does and rose and even his angels know he died and rose but they won’t repent and be saved they reject his word like many do and it leaves them here the only condemnation available

“He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.”
‭‭John‬ ‭12:48-50‬ ‭KJV‬‬


If we want assurance we have to believe the gospel Jesus taught and said “ this is eternal life “ his death covers the worlds sin completely but not everyone is saved only those who repent and believe the gospel

assurance is found in his words it’s there but not if we make it what it isn’t

 

[Icedaisey]

so this doesn’t apply ?

“But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God; Who will render to every man according to his deeds:

To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;

But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:

For there is no respect of persons with God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭2:5-11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

I’m not sure that Jesus dying and raising up is going to save us if we reject his word I’d rather know this and repent

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

do you see how he gave us a promise there ? It’s based on accepting his word just as all of creation came from his word the new creation does also . I’m pretty sure that Satan knows Jesus does and rose and even his angels know he died and rose but they won’t repent and be saved they reject his word like many do and it leaves them here the only condemnation available

“He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.”
‭‭John‬ ‭12:48-50‬ ‭KJV‬‬


If we want assurance we have to believe the gospel Jesus taught and said “ this is eternal life “ his death covers the worlds sin completely but not everyone is saved only those who repent and believe the gospel

assurance is found in his words it’s there but not if we make it what it isn’t

Those scriptures were differentiations between those who are his, and those who are not.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Those scriptures were differentiations between those who are his, and those who are not.

that’s one way to interpret it I suppose

“For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭5:10-11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

why was paul so concerned with persuading us of these things ? Maybe because so many distort and reject it and spread things in the church that part from the truth ?

“For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.”
‭‭2 Timothy‬ ‭4:3-4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

 

[rayzor]

Those scriptures were differentiations between those who are his, and those who are not.

no all are his. good guys bad guys,, spaggheti o's 4 he said the earth is mine and fullness therefore.

 

[peldom10]

Some better study scripture in more depth...Matt. 24;13....he who endures until the end ...shall be saved.

Many more scripture which refutes OSAS.

 

[Icedaisey]

that’s one way to interpret it I suppose

“For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭5:10-11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

why was paul so concerned with persuading us of these things ? Maybe because so many distort and reject it and spread things in the church that part from the truth ?

“For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.”
‭‭2 Timothy‬ ‭4:3-4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Paul proselytized the Gospel as he was led to do.
Jesus tells us, no one comes to him unless the Father calls them.

Neither Paul, nor any of the Apostles, nor anyone today for that matter, can lead people to Christ.
Only God calls people to come unto Salvation.

 

[rayzor]

Some better study scripture in more depth...Matt. 24;13....he who endures until the end ...shall be saved.

Many more scripture which refutes OSAS.

did god fail! to design some that could withstand sin.or did he make some that would chose sin over grace?God knows all.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Paul proselytized the Gospel as he was led to do.
Jesus tells us, no one comes to him unless the Father calls them.

Neither Paul, nor any of the Apostles, nor anyone today for that matter, can lead people to Christ.
Only God calls people to come unto Salvation.

indeed it’s to hear and believe the gospel , that’s my point the gospel Jesus preached is Gods call to eternal
Life and then after he called us he died and rose to remit our sins so we can believe him and be saved into his kingdom this is the call and he made us free so it’s our choice

“And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭24:14‬ ‭KJV‬‬

otherwise if we don’t have a choice God is condemning people by his Will and arbitrarily sending people into death but his Will is that we repent hearing him and be saved

“The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭3:9‬ ‭KJV‬‬
are we to believe everyone’s saved because he is longsuffering towards us wanting that we should repent and be saved ? And if someone serves sin instead that’s Gods fault also ?

Or has he sent his word into a lost world and said to us believe and be saved ? I’d say he’s called everyone by this

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;

but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

now we have the choice before us of life and death blessing and curse it seems like the gospel is his call and if we refuse it we’re going to inherit what he says I don’t believe he chooses our sin and obedience he actually earns us over and over about our actions so those who hear and believe can change before it’s too late

his call to eternal life is what he said it is

 

[Icedaisey]

Some better study scripture in more depth...Matt. 24;13....he who endures until the end ...shall be saved.

Many more scripture which refutes OSAS.

No, that passage doesn't refute OSAS.
That scripture in total tells us we are saved eternally.

The verse is a verse of assurance. No matter what comes, no matter what we have to endure, rest assured in an everlasting salvation, which is the case of all that persevere to the end, as all true believers in Christ will, we shall overcome.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

did god fail! to design some that could withstand sin.or did he make some that would chose sin over grace?God knows all.

did god fail! to design some that could withstand sin.or did he make some that would chose sin over grace?God knows all.

Yes that’s why he warns us ahead of time because he knows things that would come like this

“But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction. And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭2:1-2‬ ‭KJV‬‬

if the truth does this

“In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.”
‭‭2 Timothy‬ ‭2:25-26‬ ‭KJV‬‬

He warns us ahead of time again and again so we can prepare and not be led astray

“For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience. Be not ye therefore partakers with them.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭5:5-7‬ ‭KJV‬‬

because he knows those teachings would come to deceive people

“Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭3:7‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you. For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭24:4-5‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.

For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.

And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭6:7-9‬ ‭KJV‬‬

We’re supposed to stick to the truth and be saved false doctrines deceive and lead astray there are a thousand things he’s warned us of and one truth that saves

 

[Pilgrimshope]

No, that passage doesn't refute OSAS.
That scripture in total tells us we are saved eternally.

The verse is a verse of assurance. No matter what comes, no matter what we have to endure, rest assured in an everlasting salvation, which is the case of all that persevere to the end, as all true believers in Christ will, we shall overcome.

What is a true believer in Christ in your view ?

 

[Icedaisey]

indeed it’s to hear and believe the gospel , that’s my point the gospel Jesus preached is Gods call to eternal
Life and then after he called us he died and rose to remit our sins so we can believe him and be saved into his kingdom this is the call and he made us free so it’s our choice

“And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭24:14‬ ‭KJV‬‬

otherwise if we don’t have a choice God is condemning people by his Will and arbitrarily sending people into death but his Will is that we repent hearing him and be saved

“The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭3:9‬ ‭KJV‬‬
are we to believe everyone’s saved because he is longsuffering towards us wanting that we should repent and be saved ? And if someone serves sin instead that’s Gods fault also ?

Or has he sent his word into a lost world and said to us believe and be saved ? I’d say he’s called everyone by this

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;

but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

now we have the choice before us of life and death blessing and curse it seems like the gospel is his call and if we refuse it we’re going to inherit what he says I don’t believe he chooses our sin and obedience he actually earns us over and over about our actions so those who hear and believe can change before it’s too late

his call to eternal life is what he said it is

“Mine elect, I have even called thee by thy name” (Isaiah 45:4)

Agreed.
eklektos

bachiyr

Acts 2:23
“Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain.”


1 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, To God's elect, exiles scattered throughout the provinces of Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia and Bithynia, 2 who have been chosen according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through the sanctifying work of the Spirit, to be obedient to Jesus Christ and sprinkled with his blood: Grace and peace be yours in abundance.

 

[Icedaisey]

What is a true believer in Christ in your view ?

First thought? Those who know their Salvation is irrevocable because it was a free gift through God's grace. Because we are called by God into the Salvation of Christ Jesus.