like he can forgive but the father is not man nor the son of man that he can change his mind.
Saved by Water
- Thread starter Wansvic
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Yes, get real would be a help. I never ever said anything about "a certain number" regarding water baptism.
Paul's point was that he wasn't sent by God to baptize but to preach the gospel.
And this is what Paul thought about preaching the gospel-
Rom 1:16 - For I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God that brings salvation to everyone who believes: first to the Jew, then to the Gentile.
If water baptism was required in order to be saved, don't you think the greatest evangelist ever would have included "and be baptized" right after "believes"?
Of course he would have. But he didn't because water baptism is NOT required to be saved.
Ephesians says we are sealed with the Holy Ghost. That does not disprove that speaking in tongues does not take place when that occurs.
Paul's comment that not all speak in tongues pertains to the Spiritual gift. The Spiritual gift of tongues is used for the edification of the church body.
God is a Spirit, or God is Spirit mean the same thing. Check various bible translations.
The KJV records Jesus saying, "God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth." John 4:24
Your comments pertain to the Spiritual gift of tongues.
In the bible records of people actually receiving the Holy Ghost they all spoke in tongues. Peter made it clear that what the people heard was in fact the result of their receiving the Holy Ghost sent forth by Jesus.
Acts 2:4
And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance. Acts 2:4
Acts 2:32-33
32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.
33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.
@peldom10 was correct. See your own post 846. You responded to the statement that Paul clearly water baptized, by saying he baptized very few people. If it was not required why did he bother to baptize anyone?
The gospel message includes the command to be water baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. (Acts 2:38-41, 8:12-18, 10:44-48, 19:1-6, 22:16)
Keep in mind that as the "greatest evangelist" he would have preached to a multitude of people. It is easy to see the need for help in administering water baptism. Remember the body of Christ is made up of many parts that perform different functions.
Someone pointed out a condition Paul expressed in the scripture referenced below. It states that IF we have been planted together in the likeness of his (Jesus) death by being buried with Jesus in baptism (verse 3-4) we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection. This shows baptism is not optional.
Rom 6:3-6
3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
Rom 6:3-6
3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
you still down understand indwelt and come upon. Everyone who is saved has the Holy Spirit tongues is not need for that. Nowhere in the word of God will you find You must speak in tongues to be saved. Jesus said You must in John 3: 16 that whosoever Believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life. Jesus never said to Nicodemus "you must speak in tongues to be Born again".
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SophieT
Guest
EVERYONE WHO IS RECEIVED BY GOD THROUGH FAITH IN THE WORK OF CHRIST IS SEALED BY THE HOLY SPIRIT
EVERYONE
YOU DO NOT HAVE TO SPEAK IN TONGUES TO BE SAVED. THAT IS MANMADE NONSENSE
I KNOW WHAT THE GIFTS ARE FOR.
WE ARE BUSY TRYING TO EDIFY YOU ACTUALLY BUT YOU REFUSE THE TRUTH
THERE IS LITERALLY NOTHING YOU CAN POST THAT WOULD IN ANY WAY TELL ME SOMETHING I DO NOT KNOW.
THAT MIGHT SOUND LIKE BRAGGING, BUT IN THE CASE WITH THE WAY YOU TWIST THE BIBLE, THAT IS INSURANCE AGAINST YOUR HERESY
Paul made it quite clear that water baptism isn't required for salvation. It is a command to obey, for obedience.
To repeat, water baptism is required for obedience, not salvation.
I know your mind is made up, regardless of the facts. All these verses have been addressed.
The very many verses that mention no water baptism should be a clue to you.
Those who preach that water baptism is a requirement for salvation remind me of the believers who belonged to the Pharisee party and insisted that circumcision was required to be saved. Both ideas require human participation. Both are RITUALS ONLY.
Acts 15-
1 Certain people came down from Judea to Antioch and were teaching the believers: “Unless you are circumcised, according to the custom taught by Moses, you cannot be saved.”
2 This brought Paul and Barnabas into sharp dispute and debate with them. So Paul and Barnabas were appointed, along with some other believers, to go up to Jerusalem to see the apostles and elders about this question.
3 The church sent them on their way, and as they traveled through Phoenicia and Samaria, they told how the Gentiles had been converted. This news made all the believers very glad.
4 When they came to Jerusalem, they were welcomed by the church and the apostles and elders, to whom they reported everything God had done through them.
5 Then some of the believers who belonged to the party of the Pharisees stood up and said, “The Gentiles must be circumcised and required to keep the law of Moses.”
Peter's response:
8 God, who knows the heart, showed that he accepted them by giving the Holy Spirit to them, just as he did to us.
9 He did not discriminate between us and them, for he purified their hearts by faith.
10 Now then, why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of Gentiles a yoke that neither we nor our ancestors have been able to bear?
11 No! We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are.”
If you don't see a direct parallel between your claims and the "party of the Pharisees", you just aren't looking.
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SophieT
Guest
however the Bible does warn about people who do what you are doing here
where speaking in tongues does actually occur, the account lets us know that happened
you are making the case for deliberate lying here as far as your response goes
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SophieT
Guest
well it is not the same thing
but typical of you to refute the truth
we can count on you for that much
translations get things wrong and that is one of them...just like using the word possession for Christians...they cannot be possessed
AND, the actual meaning of the scripture would be that the person has the demon, not the demon has the person
I care about what others believe, those who actually want to know what is true...I do not believe for one moment that God is offended if someone who does not know better states God is 'a' spirit....
however, your deliberate twisting, subtracting and adding to the Bible is something I believe God takes great offense at
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SophieT
Guest
do you suppose He is reading this thread with the many egregious comments made by you and Wansivic?
as usual, no scripture posted by you, just mundane and predictable comments made in your little whining voice
You stated that being indwelt and coming upon mean different things concerning the Holy Ghost. As seen from scripture relevant to the rebirth experience this is not accurate. Notice Acts 10:44 says the Holy Ghost fell on the group. And in Acts 10:47 Peter clarifies that the group actually received the Holy Ghost.
Evidence that speaking in tongues accompanies the receiving of the Holy Ghost is provided in the following scriptures: Acts 2:2-4, 10:44-48, and 19:1-6.
I twisted nothing. Bible translations state the term the way I initially presented it. Anyone with any sense knows that God is the ultimate Spirit of which none else compares.
Taking a few verses out of context and turning into a statement of faith is wrong. The blood of Christ washes sin away. If a person repents and believes on death row, he may never get the opportunity to be baptised. You really believe that water has some kind of magical sin removing power? You add the works of man to the free gift of salvation. Baptism is important, but not for the reasons you give.
Baptism symbolises burial. What do you do when someone dies? You bury them. We die with Christ when we receive Him. (Colossians 3:3) We are buried through baptism. (Romans 6:4).
If we can see this, it overcomes a lot of problems that many Christians face. Often we remain condemned and struggle to live as we imagine that we should. Christians often think that they should change and wonder why they do not. God does not change us, He exchanges us. We need to accept that we are dead, and, when we are baptised, we are attending our own burial! Then we are raised again to new life. It is not that God helps us to be better people. He removes the old us that we were born with and puts new life within. We then have the choice to live out of the new or try to make the old live again.
My friend and mentor used to say that he would imagine himself looking at the headstone of his grave. (Not the physical grave, of course). He would then jump on the grave and say, "Good riddance to bad rubbish!" He was the most spiritual person I've ever met.
My advice? Throw away the shovel. Don't dig up the past. God has forgotten the past, why should you remember it? Live in the new and turn away from the old. You will never regret it.
Interesting.
I like a lot of what you post.
Concerning that above I have to say I'm not sure I agree with you on this.
The reason is that our past can and does define us and our walk with God.
If that is the case then I believe that God will reveal our past in order deal with it so we can live in the new and as a result we start to turn away from past.
Are you affiliated to the Gideon 300 ministry?
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SophieT
Guest
I agree
if we do not take note of history, we are going to repeat it
we might also throw out the Bible as well then, as it happened long before our present lives
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SophieT
Guest
you twisted much and continue to do so
you cannot escape the fact that we are told the Holy Spirit seals us when we believe
so what do you do? you imagination it also states people speak in tongues at the same time could be possible even though no such reference is made
HOWEVER....you have messed up your Oneness doctrine because it seems you forgot that you do not believe a person is saved until they are water baptized
in your haste to deny what one verse states, you add to it but then forget that you must include baptism if you are Oneness
literally, your beliefs are blown out of the water but you hopelessly continue to add to scripture, subtract from scripture and put together passages that are not related
if you would simply believe the Bible as it is written, you would not have to work so hard at remembering what you said, when you said it and where you got it from
clearly, you are in over your head