1 Thessalonians 4:13-17 Vs. Matthew 24:29-31

[rayzor]

And what are that's for what kind of peoples

give me time i will get back 2 u Jackson123

 

[Jackson123]

give me time i will get back 2 u Jackson123

Take your time brother I am not in hurry

 

[rayzor]

Like the tail of two citys: It was the best of times it was the worst of times it was the epoch of hope it was the epoch of despair.Matthew 24:9 then they shall deliver up 2 the tribulation & will kill u.You shall b hated of all nations 4 my name sake.We will call that trib 1...Second trib...Jezeble trib warn her and those thar sleep with her 2 repent or they will suffer great tribulation.3rd Trib Thoses that came out of worst trib white with the blood of the lamb.4 th Those really good people that r spared from the trib.

 

[Jackson123]

Like the tail of two citys: It was the best of times it was the worst of times it was the epoch of hope it was the epoch of despair.Matthew 24:9 then they shall deliver up 2 the tribulation & will kill u.You shall b hated of all nations 4 my name sake.We will call that trib 1...Second trib...Jezeble trib warn her and those thar sleep with her 2 repent or they will suffer great tribulation.3rd Trib Thoses that came out of worst trib white with the blood of the lamb.4 th Those really good people that r spared from the trib.

when ever there is massive trouble we cal it tribulation and Jesus say it will be great tribulation that never before
Christian always being hate by the world but 7 year before his coming will be high level tribulation or persecution for Christian

 

[rayzor]

when ever there is massive trouble we cal it tribulation and Jesus say it will be great tribulation that never before
Christian always being hate by the world but 7 year before his coming will be high level tribulation or persecution for Christian[/QUOTE
Galatians 4:10
b not a keeper of time.

 

[DavidTree]

The Fifth Seal martyrs are those killed in the FIRST half of the "7 years"... More saints are killed during the second half, as well



____________

@DavidTree , let me ask you... do you believe there will be an earthly Millennial Kingdom that takes place following Jesus' return in Rev19?

The Revelation of our Lord Jesus Christ

I testify to everyone who hears the words of prophecy in this book:
If anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book.
And if anyone takes away from the words of this book of prophecy, God will take away his share in the tree of life and the holy city, which are described in this book.

Revelation 22: 18-19

 

[rayzor]

The Revelation of our Lord Jesus Christ

I testify to everyone who hears the words of prophecy in this book:
If anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book.
And if anyone takes away from the words of this book of prophecy, God will take away his share in the tree of life and the holy city, which are described in this book.

Revelation 22: 18-19

Me Ramon can neither add or take away from the book..we have the right kind of fear..That is to hate evil.It is written the lying pen of the scribe has handle it falsely.either way thank u 4 warning me

 

[DavidTree]

Different Tribs 4 different people..That a 101

Only One Gospel - the SAME Gospel for the Jew and also for the Gentile - One SAME Gospel Salvation.

One same Gospel Salvation = One same Second Coming = One FIRST Resurrection for all the Saints (Jew & Gentile) His Body

 

[rayzor]

Only One Gospel - the SAME Gospel for the Jew and also for the Gentile - One SAME Gospel Salvation.

One same Gospel Salvation = One same Second Coming = One FIRST Resurrection for all the Saints (Jew & Gentile) His Body

yes u mean the great trib like no other ever...many don't seem 2 understand.some have to go thought that trib some don't.

 

[rayzor]

Look at Revelation 7:14 & Isaiah 1:16 = Same or close 2 same

 

[DavidTree]

yes u mean the great trib like no other ever...many don't seem 2 understand.some have to go thought that trib some don't.

All will go through it - some will overcome the beast and "love not their lives unto death".
Others will be "kept" by the Lord through it and preserved unto His Second Coming.

The First Resurrection takes place in Revelation - go find it........

Clue :
And when the Lamb opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the testimony they had upheld. And they cried out in a loud voice,
“How long, O Lord, holy and true, until You avenge our blood and judge those who dwell upon the earth?”

Then each of them was given a white robe and told to rest a little while longer, until the full number of their fellow servants, their brothers, were killed, just as they had been killed.
Revelation 6: 9-11

 

[rayzor]

All will go through it - some will overcome the beast and "love not their lives unto death".
Others will be "kept" by the Lord through it and preserved unto His Second Coming.

The First Resurrection takes place in Revelation - go find it........

Clue :
And when the Lamb opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the testimony they had upheld. And they cried out in a loud voice,
“How long, O Lord, holy and true, until You avenge our blood and judge those who dwell upon the earth?”

Then each of them was given a white robe and told to rest a little while longer, until the full number of their fellow servants, their brothers, were killed, just as they had been killed.
Revelation 6: 9-11

Well DavidTree Revelation 3:10 Because u have kept the word of my patience, I also will keep you from the hour of temptation that shall happen to the world.To try them that dwell upon the earth

 

[DavidTree]

Well DavidTree Revelation 3:10 Because u have kept the word of my patience, I also will keep you from the hour of temptation that shall happen to the world.To try them that dwell upon the earth

Amen - Many will overcome through the Blood, the word of their testimony and they loved not their lives unto death.

Others will be 'kept' and preserved on the earth and hidden by the Lord = 'kept' for His Coming.

Have you forgotten this Saint?

And he said, “I have been very zealous for the LORD God of hosts; because the children of Israel have forsaken Your covenant, torn down Your altars, and killed Your prophets with the sword. I alone am left; and they seek to take my life.”

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

To me this verse sound like rapture

Matt 24
31 And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.

You are assuming that anyone is being "CAUGHT UP [/SNATCHed / harpazo'd G726]... TO the meeting of the Lord IN THE AIR" in this text. That idea simply is not found in this context (you are imposing that idea upon the text here)... and though the word "heavens [plural]" is indeed used in v.31, this is not saying that is the DESTINATION location. No.


Compare the phrases found in Matt24:31 to the following passages:

Jeremiah 49:36 -
"And upon Elam will I bring the four winds from the four quarters of heaven [/heavens-PLURAL], and will scatter them toward all those winds; and there shall be no nation whither the outcasts of Elam shall not come."


Daniel 8:8 -
"Therefore the he goat waxed very great: and when he was strong, the great horn was broken; and for it came up four notable ones toward the four winds of heaven [/heavens-PLURAL]."

[speaking of nations/kingdoms located on the earth, not up in "Heaven"]


Daniel 11:4 -
"And when he shall stand up, his kingdom shall be broken, and shall be divided toward the four winds of heaven [/heavens-PLURAL]; and not to his posterity, nor according to his dominion which he ruled: for his kingdom shall be plucked up, even for others beside those."


Zechariah 2:6 -
"Ho, ho, come forth, and flee from the land of the north, saith the Lord: for I have spread you abroad as the four winds of the heaven [/heavens-PLURAL], saith the Lord."


Matthew 24:31 -
"And he shall send his angels with a great [see Isa27:12-13] sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven [/heavens-PLURAL] to the other [/as far as the ends of them-PLURAL; i.e. from the extremities-PLURAL]."

____________

Again, Matt24:29-31 is parallel with Isaiah 27:[9 (re: who?)],12-13 (as well as Isa11:11-12 and others).

In these passages (including Matthew 24:29-31) NO ONE is being "SNATCHed [/harpazo'd G726]" UP/AWAY to Heaven (nor even "TO the meeting of the Lord IN THE AIR")--these are not "Rapture [IN THE AIR]" passages (compare again Isa27:9 with Rom11:27[15,25])--rather, Matt24:29-31 & Isa27:9,12-13 is speaking of the elect of Israel (the believing remnant of Israel), who've been "SCATTERED," being gathered "ONE BY ONE" [note: not "AS ONE," as WE will be!] ...by angels HE SHALL SEND to do so... "TO worship the Lord in the holy mount AT JERUSALEM" (comp. Isa24:[21-22]23). In every way DISTINCT from that of our Rapture!

 

[DavidTree]

To me this verse sound like rapture

Matt 24
31 And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.

You are on the path of TRUTH when you, like a Child of God, accept His word without 'adding or taking away' from what He says.

Compare 'apples to apples' meaning Truth to Truth

"James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting." James 1:1

The Lord Jesus Christ will do as He promised and send His angels for their assignment, just as His Word declares.

God knows His stuff Brother, do not let the craftiness of men, who loves the Religion Blender, to justify their religion.

Order of Scripture
woven throughout His Word
Clear to See if you bend the knee
not to me or to other men
but to God who holds the Eternal Pen

 

[DavidTree]

According this verse that events not start with resurrection this verse alone tell that before second cominng will be distress or great tribulation gathering the elect or rapture happen in verse 31 it is after tribulation on verse 29

Matt 24
29 “Immediately after the distress of those days
“‘the sun will be darkened,
and the moon will not give its light;
the stars will fall from the sky,
and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.’[b]

Yes, i said; "starting with the Resurrection" which takes place after Matt 24: 29 - agree

Matt 24:31 agrees with James 1:1

 

[Mindwrencher]

1 Thessalonians 4:15-18

By the word of the Lord, we declare to you that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who have fallen asleep. 16For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a loud command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will be the first to rise. 17After that, we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will always be with the Lord.
=====================================================

Matthew 24:29-31

29Immediately after the tribulation of those days:

‘The sun will be darkened,

and the moon will not give its light;

the stars will fall from the sky,

and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.’

30At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and all the tribes of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory. 31And He will send out His angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather His elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.

==========================================================================================

Hello all! I decided to post this because I keep seeing people posting these two events as being the same and taking place at the same time, which they are not.

First of all, in comparing the two scriptures, at the time of the resurrection and the living being changed and caught up as described in 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17, angels DO NOT gather those being resurrected, nor the living being changed and caught up. The scripture states that we are raised in power, not gathered by angels. The Lord with a voice like a trumpet, will resurrect and call up the dead in Christ and then immediately after that the living in Christ will be transformed immortal and glorified and will be caught up with those who will have just resurrected. At this point the entire church will be gathered to meet the Lord in the air. To reiterate, no angels gather the church at this event.

1 Thessalonians 4:16 mentions that there will be a "load command, with the voice of an archangel" to announce the Lord's appearing, i.e. the Bridegrooms arrival for His bride. The mention of the voice of the loud command from the archangel is in the 'genitive, masculine, singular,' i.e. one archangel. In opposition, Matthew 24:31 has the Lord sending out many angels who will go throughout the four corners of the earth to gather the living survivors of the great tribulation saints. To be clear, Matthew 24:31 is not the gathering of the church, but the gathering of those great tribulation saints who will have survived the great tribulation period.

In addition, the "Trumpet of God" and the "last trumpet" of 1 Thessalonians 4:16 and 1 Corinthians 15:52, respectively, is not the same as the "Loud Trumpet call" referred to in Matthew 24:31 which is used to send out the angels to gather the living elect. They are different trumpets. The trumpet of God in 1 Thessalonians 4:16 is to gather the dead and the living in Christ from off the earth. Where the "loud trumpet call" in Matthew 24:31 is to send the angels out to gather the living survivors of the great tribulation saints. What is not mentioned in Matthew 24:31 but is mentioned in Matthew 13, is that when the Lord returns to the earth to end the age, the angels first gather the weeds/wicked, then they bring the wheat/righteous into the Lord's barn.

And second of all, when we received Christ, we were credited with His righteousness and reconciled to God. As Isaiah 53 says, the punishment that brought us peace was upon Christ, meaning that God's wrath was already satisfied through Christ on behalf of every believer. Either Christ's punishment brought us peace with God or it didn't! For those who continue to have the living church gathered after God's wrath, they cannot truly believe that Jesus satisfied God's wrath. They're speaking out of both sides of their mouths.

Since believers within the church are not appointed to suffer God's wrath, then the Lord's promise in John 14:1-3 and 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 to come back to get His church and to take us back to the Father's house to those places that He went to prepare for us, must take place prior to the on-set of God's wrath.

And thirdly, in opposition to Matthew 24:31 which states that "all the tribes of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory." In opposition, nothing is mentioned of the people of the earth seeing the Lord arriving nor His gathering of the church as described in John 14:1-3, 1Thessalonians 4:15-17. In the event when the Lord comes to gather His church, it is to take them back to the Father's house. Where in opposition, Matthew 24:29-31 is the Lord's return to the earth to end the age and establish His millennial kingdom. So, one is coming to gather His church to take them back to heaven and the other is to return to the earth to end the age and establish His millennial kingdom.

I would also mention after the detailed account of the church being gathered in 1 Thessalonians 4:18, Paul says "Therefore encourage one another with these words. If the church were to first go through God's wrath and then be gathered, then we could not encourage each other with those words, because we be suffering the same wrath as the wicked. It is the same thing found in John 14:1, for Jesus says "let not your hearts be troubled." If believers within the church were to go through God's wrath and gathered afterwards, then we would certainly have reason to be troubled.

* The gathering of the church takes place prior to God's wrath (John 14:1-3, 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18, 1 Corinthians 15:51-53)

* The Lord's return to the earth to end the age takes place after God's wrath (Matthew 24:29-31, Revelation 1:7, 19:11-21)

“28 Do not be amazed at this; for an hour is coming when all who are in the tombs will hear His voice, 29 and will come out: those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the bad deeds to a resurrection of judgment.”
Exactly when/where does this particular “hour” occur in your knowledge of “tribulation” doctrine?

 

[Jackson123]

You are assuming that anyone is being "CAUGHT UP [/SNATCHed / harpazo'd G726]... TO the meeting of the Lord IN THE AIR" in this text. That idea simply is not found in this context (you are imposing that idea upon the text here)... and though the word "heavens [plural]" is indeed used in v.31, this is not saying that is the DESTINATION location. No.


Compare the phrases found in Matt24:31 to the following passages:

Jeremiah 49:36 -
"And upon Elam will I bring the four winds from the four quarters of heaven [/heavens-PLURAL], and will scatter them toward all those winds; and there shall be no nation whither the outcasts of Elam shall not come."


Daniel 8:8 -
"Therefore the he goat waxed very great: and when he was strong, the great horn was broken; and for it came up four notable ones toward the four winds of heaven [/heavens-PLURAL]."

[speaking of nations/kingdoms located on the earth, not up in "Heaven"]


Daniel 11:4 -
"And when he shall stand up, his kingdom shall be broken, and shall be divided toward the four winds of heaven [/heavens-PLURAL]; and not to his posterity, nor according to his dominion which he ruled: for his kingdom shall be plucked up, even for others beside those."


Zechariah 2:6 -
"Ho, ho, come forth, and flee from the land of the north, saith the Lord: for I have spread you abroad as the four winds of the heaven [/heavens-PLURAL], saith the Lord."


Matthew 24:31 -
"And he shall send his angels with a great [see Isa27:12-13] sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven [/heavens-PLURAL] to the other [/as far as the ends of them-PLURAL; i.e. from the extremities-PLURAL]."

____________

Again, Matt24:29-31 is parallel with Isaiah 27:[9 (re: who?)],12-13 (as well as Isa11:11-12 and others).

In these passages (including Matthew 24:29-31) NO ONE is being "SNATCHed [/harpazo'd G726]" UP/AWAY to Heaven (nor even "TO the meeting of the Lord IN THE AIR")--these are not "Rapture [IN THE AIR]" passages (compare again Isa27:9 with Rom11:27[15,25])--rather, Matt24:29-31 & Isa27:9,12-13 is speaking of the elect of Israel (the believing remnant of Israel), who've been "SCATTERED," being gathered "ONE BY ONE" [note: not "AS ONE," as WE will be!] ...by angels HE SHALL SEND to do so... "TO worship the Lord in the holy mount AT JERUSALEM" (comp. Isa24:[21-22]23). In every way DISTINCT from that of our Rapture!

Heavens plural? Do you believe there are more than one heavens?

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Heavens plural? Do you believe there are more than one heavens?

I'm pointing out that this is what the text states in Matthew 24:31 -

"...from the four winds, from [the] ends [plural] of the heavens [plural] to the ends [plural] of them [plural]."

https://biblehub.com/interlinear/matthew/24-31.htm




And I stated that "heavens [plural]" is what is also used in the other verses I listed (for comparison with Matt24:31):

--Jeremiah 49:36
--Daniel 8:8
--Daniel 11:14
--Zechariah 2:6


[note: it does not always refer to "UP THERE"... check out the passages I just listed ^ ; note ALSO that Matt24:31 is not saying this is its "destination location" being referenced there]




____________

Then there are also the verses saying the following (and which distinguishes between them, in these verses):

--"heavens [plural] and the heavens of heavens [plural / plural]" 2Chron6:18 - https://biblehub.com/interlinear/2_chronicles/6-18.htm

--"heavens [plural] and the heavens of heavens [plural / plural]" 1King8:27 - https://biblehub.com/interlinear/1_kings/8-27.htm



Hope that helps.

 

[GRACE_ambassador]

When you truly understand the Blessed Day of Daniel happening on the 1335th day of the Tribulation and the Day of the Lord then you know most of the story

IF I don't know "most of the story" Of The Revelation Of The MYSTERY (Romans - Philemon), Which IS FOR us Today {And "Most are Still Confused" about!}...

...How am I/we going to "know most of the Confusing story" about "Prophecy FOR ISRAEL" THAT doesn't Even Pertain to me/us???:

God's Approval/TWO Different Gospels
Distinctions In God's Two Different Programs: Prophecy vs Mystery!