Only The Cross

Kidron · Aug 22, 2021

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Lets take a close look at what saves you, vs, what does not.

Now, there are all sorts of specific types of spiritual blindness.
There is the unbeliever, who has been blinded by the devil, """IN Whom.... the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.""

Notice carefully the verse says, "IN Whom".
See that?
That is Inside, the person, In their MIND.
Its the mind of a person the devil blinds.

How does this happen to a born again Christian?
It happens for 2 reasons.

1.) a deceiver deceives them

2.) they fall victim of their own flesh.

The term for a believer becoming deceived is to have a : mental "stronghold".

Reader, the most vulnerable time in a Christian's life is the first Year, subsequent to salvation.
As it is in that year that you are going to form your initial theology, and if you are being fed lies from the pulpit or from your best friend or from your dad or mother or grandma, or from a Christian forum... then your faith gets destroyed and you end up a casualty of deception.
You end up, born again, but deceived.

The reason this happens to new believers so easily, is because Salvation creates you to want to believe anyone who sounds like they know something about the bible.
The new believer knows that they are non-informed, and so, when someone starts talking christianese in your ear.... then you listen, and you want to believe. ....And so, you get trapped into a really bad belief system if this person is a deceiver..

In '1990, i was trying to understand perfectly how to not become a casualty of a deceived faith.
So, i asked God. And i received an answer.
I came to understand that if you want to know the truth, when there are many truths being taught that all seem true, then you have to find out how to KNOW what isn't true, and this KEY causes THE Truth to stand alone for you to SEE.
I learned that what Satan does is mix a little truth in with some error, and then his people present it as truth..... So, in this way, its very deceptive, and deceives many.....
-------------------------------------------------------------------

So, lets understand the CROSS, which is the only means of gaining Eternal Salvation, by seeing what isn't on it.

Now.
Imagine the Cross.....
See Jesus on it?
He's BLEEDING !!, He's exhausted, He is about to die for sin of the world.
Now SEE THAT?
Do you SEE THAT?

That is YOUR SALVATION. Your salvation is everything that is ON THE CROSS, about to die for you.

Now what isn't on it?
What isn't on the Cross.?
What isn't on the Cross is everything that can't save you or keep you saved.

1. Water Baptism
2. Commandments
3. Law
4. Self effort
5. Sacraments - Eucharist
6. Mary
7. Enduring to the end
8. Everything else that is on your list of "Do's and Dont do's.
9. Your Church
10. Pre-destination

So, do you see any of that list hanging on the Cross for your sin????
Look carefully.
Do you see any on that list hanging on the Cross for your sin??
So, never trust in or try to do those things, thinking they are going to get you into heaven.
As the only Who will, is the Holy One you see dying for you up on The Cross. John 14:6
Believe it.

Pilgrimshope · Aug 22, 2021

is it the cross we worship ? Or the Lord indies upon it for us ? Let’s see the Old Testament roots of what happened when they worshipped the figure of the cross given them

“And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭3:14-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

here’s the image of the cross the sinners of Israel received

“And the Lord said unto Moses, Make thee a fiery serpent, and set it upon a pole: and it shall come to pass, that every one that is bitten, when he looketh upon it, shall live.

And Moses made a serpent of brass, and put it upon a pole, and it came to pass, that if a serpent had bitten any man, when he beheld the serpent of brass, he lived.”
‭‭Numbers‬ ‭21:8-9‬ ‭KJV‬‬

now , let’s see what became of the worshipping of the symbol of Gods forgiveness terrier than God rejecting his word .

“He removed the high places, and brake the images, and cut down the groves, and brake in pieces the brasen serpent that Moses had made: for unto those days the children of Israel did burn incense to it: and he called it Nehushtan.”
‭‭2 Kings‬ ‭18:4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Jesus death and precious blood is holy , as is the pain he endured , the mocking and shame he took upon his glorious self for us who couldn’t bear it .

but there comes a time when you stop looking at the serpent and worshipping it and turn to worshipping the living God who left the cross behind him in victory and rose up from its death leaving also an empty tomb that is a far better symbol to look and see Christ the risen lord who hung up high for our sin but rose up higher than the heaven formoir redemption

look at where the man on the cross is now

“But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God, And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭7:55-56‬ ‭

he didn’t see him still dead on the cross for sin but saw him exalted for righteousness sake . How far can we worship wood and nails ? But how far we can worship the everlasting God by his word of truth

Kidron · Aug 23, 2021

Pilgrimshope said:

Paul said that Jesus sent Him to "preach the Cross".
He didnt tell Him to worship the wood.

"Preaching the Cross" is to explain the finished work of Jesus on the Cross, or to explain what Jesus meant when He said...>"it is Finished"
Im not surprised you didn't know this...
But, you can go and wikipedia it, and then cut and paste, and pretend you knew it all along.

Also.....My Thread talks about who hung on it, and what didnt, that is used by heretics to try to replace Jesus's sacrifice.

polgrimshipe, .... Your reading/comprehension skills are actually worse then your theology, and thats not a compliment.
The only thing that gives you more issues is your dishonesty.
Eventually thats going to cause you some harm that you didn't expect.

wattie · Aug 23, 2021

Me thinks a misunderstanding here.. I think you guys both a talking of believing on Jesus Christ. Just different terms

Kidron · Aug 23, 2021

wattie said:

My Thread is pretty simple...

= Here is what saves you.....>"Jesus".

Here is what does not...""

1. Water Baptism
2. Commandments
3. Law
4. Self effort
5. Sacraments - Eucharist
6. Mary
7. Enduring to the end
8. Everything else that is on your list of "Do's and Dont do's.
9. Your Church
10. Pre-destination

--------

So, pilgrimshope then states on my Thread......>"you are worshiping wood and nails"...

So, that's kinda crazy as well as not being true..., but, that is not anything new with this person who chases me around on this forum.

wattie · Aug 23, 2021

Kidron said:

Okay.. yea I didn't know the context.

It is one thing I see a lot is people using 'he who endures to the end will be saved' to be about eternal salvation..

But the context is deliverance from trials and troubles... not eternal death

Kidron · Aug 24, 2021

wattie said:

This word "enduring"........this is talking about something the person does.
Its a SELF effort.......
So, can you by self effort save yourself?
If you can, then why did Christ have to die for you?

See, Salvation ISN'T what we do.......its what God did 2000 yrs ago, as Christ on the Cross.

So, we RECEIVE THIS.....>"GIFT of salvation".

A person who is trying to "endure to the end" is trying to be their own savior, and that is LEGALISM
I define it as "self saving" as this clarifies it.

mindfulzen · Aug 24, 2021

I cannot agree to this at all. Jesus points to God, and salvation is not a freebie kind of a thing. I have to suffer some, I have to sacrifice some, it is not convenient in all aspects. But that is the narrow path. Cannot stray of the path, and do everything I used to do as an atheist. For instance, weed, is that allowed? I am not sure. I talked some about this with a former relative yesterday, we seemed to agree that it was OOK since it is natural. But is it allowed in scripture? I do not think I can smoke weed again, because we are also told to be of clear mind. Have that now, but I used to have some concentrationissues in the past, and weed did actually help me focus better. So I do not know, the verdict is not in. I also slipped a bit back and did use cusswords a few times, and that is not allowed of course. You must not break the commandments, how can you say that we can just violate them? If I violate them, I invalidate my faith.

Kidron · Aug 24, 2021

mindfulzen said:

When you deny that the offer of Christ's blood, for the sin of the world.....John 3:16, is not this ..>"the gift of salvation", and "the gift of righteousness"......then you are teaching that you save yourself, and that is heresy.

So, you have to decide if you believe that Jesus, alone, is Salvation, of if you do it as commandment keeping, enduring, water baptism, or any type of SELF EFFORT.

It's really important that you decide who is the Savior, before this happens to you.......Hebrews 9:27
Now, according to your post, you believe that you keep yourself saved.
And if that is true, then you died on the Cross.
Check those nail prints, as dont think you have them, except in your imagination, mindfulzen.

mindfulzen · Aug 24, 2021

Kidron said:

I have not denied, you just create a strawman, an obstacle to block conversation. I clearly state that it is not a free gift, you have a lifetime to prove you are worthy of the gift. Faith is not just a word, it is a conviction that demands much of us. I cannot go against God for selfish reasons, otherwise I do not have faith. This is why there are different denominations. Why christians cannot have one church. For those of us who are outside of the protestand and catholic ones, it is not so convenient as for you. I must strive to be better, and grow closer to God, neverending word through the rest of my life. I cannot just pause it because I want to have fun as I did as an atheist. As I explained with the weed. Was an opening for it yesterday among old atheist friends. I could not go for that without thinking about it and make an informed choice, so I went home to think it over and read some. I should probably make a thread about it. One of many tests in life, where I must not act rash and impulsive. Christians are also individuals, and we have to agree to disagree. Please stop telling people they deny christ, when they have not done it. This is faith, not politics, conversation, not debate, no wins, just different views. Don't go all Rachel Maddow on me.

Kidron · Aug 24, 2021

[QUOTE="mindfulzen, post: 4632387, member: 309543" I clearly state that it is not a free gift,.[/QUOTE]

"The Gift of salvation"....>"the Gift of Righteousness"..

"being made FREE from SIN, """""

See all that?
God does that for every believer.......>Its all a Gift.

mindfulzen · Aug 24, 2021

Kidron said:

"The Gift of salvation"....>"the Gift of Righteousness"..

"being made FREE from SIN, """""

See all that?
God does that for every believer.......>Its all a Gift.[/QUOTE]
You cannot cherrypick a few sentences from a collection of books, that are 1400 pages. It is just convenient, to fit into this world, live this life with few obstacles and avoid tests of faith. This is not my faith. I must make myself worthy of salvation. I am not worthy yet, much work to do. Many a trial, and persecution of the faith, hardly any tribulations. Encountered blasphemy yesterday, did not call it out, but did not get anger. Pass or fail, I do not know. I cussed, fail. Not worthy yet. We do not have to agree. You do not have to respect others faith, but telling other christians they deny Christ, that is a bit much. I do not think we are supposed to treat our familymembers in faith that way. Regardless of denomination. Not very christlike if you know what I mean, since it is all about Jesus for you it seems to me. Jesus pointed me to God, so I must go where he points me. So how can I deny christ by that simple statement? Do not get totally hung up on the metaphysical manifestation of God, it is not the end, it is guidence to more wisdom and knowledge, that will solidify faith in our hearts. And hopefully we become worthy of salvation along the way. We learn from eachother also, share interpretations. This is for me, not saying you must agree, faith is personal. We must find it individually. A wise man once said, "there is only one ism people, individualism", this is very true. We should let fellow christians seek faith and find it for themselves, and only offer guidence if asked for it. Faith cannot be forced upon others, or threatened onto people who submit in fear. That is not love, and I have found that in faith there is only room for love, no place for fear.

Do you believe there is a devil or not? Or has hell been erased in your church?

Kidron · Aug 24, 2021

mindfulzen said:

Those are "verses".

Notice :

The Grace of God is Christ, His blood, His death, His Resurrection.
The Salvation of God is Jesus
Eternal Life is JESUS.
The reason you dont go to heaven, is if He is not in you.
The only way He can be in you is if you do this.....>"Jesus said....."you must be born again"..

Let me show you what can't save you.

These..

1. Water Baptism
2. Commandments
3. Law
4. Self effort
5. Sacraments - Eucharist
6. Mary
7. Enduring to the end
8. Everything else that is on your list of "Do's and Dont do's.
9. Your Church
10. Pre-destination

mindfulzen · Aug 24, 2021

Kidron said:

What is this? Are you a missionary? Quite preachy. And what is the objective? To make start sinning again? I do not kknow about your do not list. How can self effort be a do not?We all try this regardless of faith or not, we strive to improve in our personal lives, be better at school, get better grades. Be better spouses, parents, good effort at work, hope for promotions, etc.I think that is fine, also in faith, as long as we do not have pride about it. I am not affiliated to any church, so we agree on that.I think Mary is important, but do not know much about her yet. I am not a biblethumper. There is much to learn, but I really think many people overcomplicate it or oversimplify it. It is just a personal relationship with God, I have faith, no doubt. Why must I do as that church says or that one? And God did not send his only son to die on the cross for our sins, so I could continue to sin. I have not covered much of the bible yet, but it is very clear to me, that I must emulate Jesus as best I can. I do not want to be greedy, have pride, anger, needs, etc. That stuff does not bring me closer to God, it removes me from God. You can have your view, I mine, and we agree to disagree. Is this a debate to you? Did you get a win from it? I am just conversating. Only one winner in conversations about scripture, namely faith. If our faith gets strengthened

Kidron · Aug 24, 2021

mindfulzen said:

My younger brother is the Missionary, .. He's in the Ukraine the last 25 yrs.
My older brother is the Pastor.
Im just the lowly evangelist, teacher, minstrel.

So, My Thread is very specific.
Its giving Credit, all credit due Christ alone, for saving you and keeping you saved.
When will you begin to give Christ this same Credit?

See.......This is very important to believe, as if you don't believe it, then you are trusting in what can't get you into heaven.

This..

1. Water Baptism
2. Commandments
3. Law
4. Self effort
5. Sacraments - Eucharist
6. Mary
7. Enduring to the end
8. Everything else that is on your list of "Do's and Dont do's.
9. Your Church
10. Pre-destination

mindfulzen · Aug 24, 2021

Kidron said:

I am orthodox of sorts, so we do not agree with you being an evangelist. I cannot agree with your list, 2, 3, 4, and 7 are important to me. Just the way it is, we have different paths. I will not judge you or your path. Hope it is enough. And remember, not all christians was born into it, some of us are new. I do not come from a christian home. Parents and all their kids were and are sefavowed atheists. 2 of them are even agnostics, as I thought I was once too. Six siblings on both my father and mothers side, only one of those families are christians. I do not know any christians in life. Never been a churchgoing family. Lived in sin for a long time, did some drugs, I must repent as far as I understand it. After that I must pray and ask to come along to heaven. It is not so complicated for me. I take it pretty literal, and learn more as I read the books. One day I will be wise enough. Going to do the book of joel or amos now. I think that is important, read a verse somewhere from one of them or a historymagazine. Was something about some sort of a kingdom or people, who lived around babylon, and being conquerred by another. And from that you herodes 1 and 2. And herodes 2 attacked Jesus and the apostles, and thought he ended christianity, when in fact he started it. And I have not read about the pentacostle thing, so I must put in that work at least. Does not interfere with your faith

wattie · Aug 24, 2021

The free gift of eternal life is in John 3:16, 3:36, 5:24
Ephesians 2:8-10
Roman's 10:9-10

Plus many many more verses.

The most common response to posts like Kidron has is to say 'you are saying a can do what ever I want' or 'preaching a license to sin'

So .. if you were given the greatest gift ever given.. from deepest kind of unconditional love, how would you respond?

The chances are, you would give love and service back to the grace giver.

Now, it isn't that this is guaranteed to happen because people are still sinful after being saved, but they do have the Holy Spirit to purge them and guide them.

Point being, works for Jesus after being saved aren't to keep eternal salvation but our loving response back to the freedom He gives.

In a biological family if we struggle with our parents.. if they are doing their job right do they leave us? No.

Gods commitment to us is greater than a biological bond, because it is spiritual rebirth.

SophieT · Aug 24, 2021

Pilgrimshope said:

is it the cross we worship ? Or the Lord indies upon it for us ? Let’s see the Old Testament roots of what happened when they worshipped the figure of the cross given them

“And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭3:14-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

here’s the image of the cross the sinners of Israel received

“And the Lord said unto Moses, Make thee a fiery serpent, and set it upon a pole: and it shall come to pass, that every one that is bitten, when he looketh upon it, shall live.

And Moses made a serpent of brass, and put it upon a pole, and it came to pass, that if a serpent had bitten any man, when he beheld the serpent of brass, he lived.”
‭‭Numbers‬ ‭21:8-9‬ ‭KJV‬‬

now , let’s see what became of the worshipping of the symbol of Gods forgiveness terrier than God rejecting his word .

“He removed the high places, and brake the images, and cut down the groves, and brake in pieces the brasen serpent that Moses had made: for unto those days the children of Israel did burn incense to it: and he called it Nehushtan.”
‭‭2 Kings‬ ‭18:4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Jesus death and precious blood is holy , as is the pain he endured , the mocking and shame he took upon his glorious self for us who couldn’t bear it .

but there comes a time when you stop looking at the serpent and worshipping it and turn to worshipping the living God who left the cross behind him in victory and rose up from its death leaving also an empty tomb that is a far better symbol to look and see Christ the risen lord who hung up high for our sin but rose up higher than the heaven formoir redemption

look at where the man on the cross is now

“But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God, And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭7:55-56‬ ‭

he didn’t see him still dead on the cross for sin but saw him exalted for righteousness sake . How far can we worship wood and nails ? But how far we can worship the everlasting God by his word of truth

this is ridiculous

I read the op and I applaud it

there is nothing in the op to suggest we worship the cross. you give a manufactured answer totally lacking in comprehension and go on and on about unrelated subject matter

you might as well have said 'bah bah black sheep'

Pilgrimshope · Aug 24, 2021

SophieT said:

it’s foolish to worship the risen lord and savior who said this ?

“And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭28:18-20‬ ‭KJV‬‬

And wise to worship a Roman device of execution which Jesus left behind when he walked out of the tomb alive ?

That’s probably the kind of wisdom that keeps a sinner in death , rather than raising them up to a new life in the risen lord over all and source of eternal salvation

Of course Gods word has always made the distinction between worshipping works and worshipping the living God who created all things but I agree foolishness is in the ear of the beholder 🙂

God bless and carry the cross when you wake up

mindfulzen · Aug 24, 2021

wattie said:

No, not saved yet, not sinful, you generalize. I took the lords name and used it in vain of sorts yesterday, used cusswords, and said dear lord when not calling God, apart from that, no sins. I will not be sinful after being saved. Do people who sin, have the holy spirit with them? Are you sure? Not how it is for me. And others tend to think of the freedom we were granted as a prison, as I did. We leave our parents when we create a new family, or join one, just a fact of life. And you decide if you want to join Gods family after that. Do not look for loopholes, instead sin while you can, be done with it, repent, then sin no more.

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