Has Your Pastor Emailed You Lately?
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I remember visiting a large Baptist church around 2004 (so it's been a while, not a new phenomenon). After the service I made my way to the front to ask the Pastor something and he brushed me off and tried to get away. He must've been late for lunch or something.
Okay, maybe he was late for something important. But he could've at least said that rather than dismissing me and running away.
Okay, maybe he was late for something important. But he could've at least said that rather than dismissing me and running away.
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Good point.
Jesus preached to the multitudes, also. However, he only discipled 12. And that's where pastors miss it the most.
They want to stand behind the pulpit and preach to thousands of people. Yet, they don't want to get their hands dirty with just a few.
If every pastor in every church would mentor at least two people— and then show those two people how to disciple two more people—
we would no longer have a problem with numbers dwindling in the church.
Jesus preached to the multitudes, also. However, he only discipled 12. And that's where pastors miss it the most.
They want to stand behind the pulpit and preach to thousands of people. Yet, they don't want to get their hands dirty with just a few.
If every pastor in every church would mentor at least two people— and then show those two people how to disciple two more people—
we would no longer have a problem with numbers dwindling in the church.
The senior pastor (SP) of the church I attend (400+ people) sends out a personal message to each of the people who provide their email addresses; personal from him, not personal to the recipients. I wouldn't expect anyone to be able to provide a personal message to that many unique people. Further, he is one of ten or so people on staff, five of whom have the word, "pastor" in their title. I relate much more closely to some of the other staff members, and though it's nice to chat with the SP occasionally, I have no needs that require his "personal" attention.
Even if I had pressing needs, I'd probably go to a Christian friend first, or one of the other pastors whom I know better. I don't see the SP's job as a personal spiritual overseer to me (or to anyone other than the staff and his own family).
I see the OP's comments as symptomatic of a flaw in modern church culture: the idea that the pastor is supposed to be personally connected with every individual and provide all of the spiritual input. That isn't what the Bible teaches; rather, it's a corruption of good leadership practice and stems from both the bleating of immature sheep and the willingness of leaders to exercise power they are given.
Even if I had pressing needs, I'd probably go to a Christian friend first, or one of the other pastors whom I know better. I don't see the SP's job as a personal spiritual overseer to me (or to anyone other than the staff and his own family).
I see the OP's comments as symptomatic of a flaw in modern church culture: the idea that the pastor is supposed to be personally connected with every individual and provide all of the spiritual input. That isn't what the Bible teaches; rather, it's a corruption of good leadership practice and stems from both the bleating of immature sheep and the willingness of leaders to exercise power they are given.
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Pastor literally means shepherd. And the shepherd knows the sheep. If your pastor isn’t shepherding you then he is not your pastor.
The excuse that he has other ministries to attend falls flat when you know that the sheep ARE his ministry. Children’s programs do not need pastors. “Visiting the sick” does not need pastors. Pastors are necessarily pastors of people.
This is Biblically speaking, of course.
The excuse that he has other ministries to attend falls flat when you know that the sheep ARE his ministry. Children’s programs do not need pastors. “Visiting the sick” does not need pastors. Pastors are necessarily pastors of people.
This is Biblically speaking, of course.
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My "pastors" E-mail my copy of the Berean Searchlight 11 times a year!
Have been throughly encouraged, exhorted, enriched, And enlightened,
for 30 years! Praise God!!
Have been throughly encouraged, exhorted, enriched, And enlightened,
for 30 years! Praise God!!
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Notice that doesn't mean 'preacher'
God also gave "teachers" and we are all supposed to be exhorting one another and spurring one another to good works, not sitting in a pew being entertained once a week.
We are meant to be a body, not an audience
So for me the elder I correspond with is more of a 'pastor' while the one who is kind of called 'pastor' ((we prefer HTRP = highly trained religious professional)) is my teacher. We have lectures, not sermons.
God also gave "teachers" and we are all supposed to be exhorting one another and spurring one another to good works, not sitting in a pew being entertained once a week.
We are meant to be a body, not an audience
So for me the elder I correspond with is more of a 'pastor' while the one who is kind of called 'pastor' ((we prefer HTRP = highly trained religious professional)) is my teacher. We have lectures, not sermons.
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I remember visiting a large Baptist church around 2004 (so it's been a while, not a new phenomenon). After the service, I made my way to the front to ask the Pastor something, and he brushed me off and tried to get away. He must've been late for lunch or something.
Okay, maybe he was late for something important. But he could've at least said that rather than dismissing me and running away.
Okay, maybe he was late for something important. But he could've at least said that rather than dismissing me and running away.
Sorry I missed this earlier. But I'll respond now if that's okay.
I feel your pain. Since when did church leadership start to think they're so important? They can't even acknowledge one of their own members?
I have a theory if you have a few minutes to read further.
Do you remember that book by Stephen R. Covey entitled 7 Habits of Highly Effective People?
Well, I think the first edition came out in the early 1990s, or maybe even before that. But what I do know is that it was a best-seller.
My theory is that most pastors got ahold of it and read it repeatedly (for busy execs, it is a great book).
If you remember, it talks about time quadrants:
Quadrant 1= Urgent and important
Quadrant 2= Important, but not urgent
Quadrant 3= Urgent (to others), but not important to me
Quadrant 4= Not urgent, not important (i.e., watching TV)
So, I think the modern pastor bought into the notion that quadrant three and quadrant four should be avoided at all costs.
And naturally, pastors began to see church members as people dragging them into quadrant three with no way out.
To make matters worse, church leaders were also reading Dan Kennedy, another business guru. He postulated that all living, breathing human beings were mere "time vampires" who wanted to suck the life out of you. And, of course, you need several gatekeepers posted outside your door to keep these vultures at bay.
Adding to this, we now have every business book on the planet touting automation as being the holy grail. So, if you just cut out all human interaction, your business (yes, even a church) can survive amidst a whiney, entitled, litigious public.
And you don't even have to read the books I mentioned. It's part of our current culture. Look no further than our zero-service restaurants, retail stores, and banks. Human interaction is now considered taboo in the business world.
And since pastors read business books like the rest of us, they've fallen in line as well.
There's no easy answer but to go back to having time vampires like you and me disciple each other. If the pastors want to join us, great. If not, that's okay, too.
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Notice that doesn't mean 'preacher'
God also gave "teachers" and we are all supposed to be exhorting one another and spurring one another to good works, not sitting in a pew being entertained once a week.
We are meant to be a body, not an audience
So for me the elder I correspond with is more of a 'pastor' while the one who is kind of called 'pastor' ((we prefer HTRP = highly trained religious professional)) is my teacher. We have lectures, not sermons.
God also gave "teachers" and we are all supposed to be exhorting one another and spurring one another to good works, not sitting in a pew being entertained once a week.
We are meant to be a body, not an audience
So for me the elder I correspond with is more of a 'pastor' while the one who is kind of called 'pastor' ((we prefer HTRP = highly trained religious professional)) is my teacher. We have lectures, not sermons.
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Without anything else to go on, I would say it is likely that that particular elder is your pastor.
wow so i have a pastor and a teacher, so blessed!
i think i agree with you. and it's good, that they have each their own role, so my 'teacher' who gives sunday lectures ((it's pretty hard to describe them as sermons, honestly, whatever 'sermon' means)) has time to prepare and study instead of having to fill so many other roles.
this is something i think my small church does well, that many other churches utterly fail at.
Wow, I think that bolsters my point, spot on. Thank you for your input.
Now, I'm going to challenge you. How do we fix the problem with disengaged leaders of the church. Or is there no turning back?
Will we as sheep have to leave the human shepherds and fall under the direction of Christ for a change?
Now, I'm going to challenge you. How do we fix the problem with disengaged leaders of the church. Or is there no turning back?
Will we as sheep have to leave the human shepherds and fall under the direction of Christ for a change?
Good questions.
I started this journey 23 years ago:
For me, it was a matter of a lack of a standard. I looked for biblical elders for 8 years before the Lord instructed me to stand up as an elder myself. (Note: I believe all true elders have the grace of a pastor but not all pastors have the grave of an elder). Then, I looked for apostles. The Lord sent me one who confirmed me as an elder. In this time, we had bible studies and meetings at our home and occasionally rented space when we needed the room. There were some who wanted to start another church. They fell away when they realized that was not going to happen. Then, the first apostle introduced me to another apostle, a man I am close with today, he laid hands on me and confirmed my calling (a son of God will never have to make his own way). Today, I walk closely with that man like Timothy walked with Paul. In the Lord, I am his son and he is my father.
Today, I watch over 13 souls: my own house, 4 married couples and 2 widows.
This is how the Lord is building His house: fathers and sons. Naturally, the fathers of their own natural houses would be the priests and pastors of the family. But, because of the tradition of seminary and hiring people to fill those roles, the Lord has equipped fathers to be available for those in need. For example my own natural father, a very kind and humble man whom I love, did not raise me in the Lord. I needed some one to raise me in the way of the Lord. And the Lord was good to me by leading me to a spiritual father who was equipped to do so.
I hope this answered the question: “how do we change it?” In short: the Lord has not left us as orphans. He is meeting the sons where they are. But, He is not changing the boxed churches. Although there are many within the boxes who love the Lord, He will continue to call them out, the ways of the boxed churches are not His ways.
Grace and Peace,
Aaron56
I started this journey 23 years ago:
For me, it was a matter of a lack of a standard. I looked for biblical elders for 8 years before the Lord instructed me to stand up as an elder myself. (Note: I believe all true elders have the grace of a pastor but not all pastors have the grave of an elder). Then, I looked for apostles. The Lord sent me one who confirmed me as an elder. In this time, we had bible studies and meetings at our home and occasionally rented space when we needed the room. There were some who wanted to start another church. They fell away when they realized that was not going to happen. Then, the first apostle introduced me to another apostle, a man I am close with today, he laid hands on me and confirmed my calling (a son of God will never have to make his own way). Today, I walk closely with that man like Timothy walked with Paul. In the Lord, I am his son and he is my father.
Today, I watch over 13 souls: my own house, 4 married couples and 2 widows.
This is how the Lord is building His house: fathers and sons. Naturally, the fathers of their own natural houses would be the priests and pastors of the family. But, because of the tradition of seminary and hiring people to fill those roles, the Lord has equipped fathers to be available for those in need. For example my own natural father, a very kind and humble man whom I love, did not raise me in the Lord. I needed some one to raise me in the way of the Lord. And the Lord was good to me by leading me to a spiritual father who was equipped to do so.
I hope this answered the question: “how do we change it?” In short: the Lord has not left us as orphans. He is meeting the sons where they are. But, He is not changing the boxed churches. Although there are many within the boxes who love the Lord, He will continue to call them out, the ways of the boxed churches are not His ways.
Grace and Peace,
Aaron56
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That is incorrect, since the New Testament clearly presents the need for shepherds and shepherding over flocks. The real issue is that the New Testament pattern has been generally rejected and abandoned for a very long time, and even in churches with a plurality of elders, the elders generally do not do the work of shepherds (in caring for individual lambs and sheep). Here is what God demands from pastor/elder/bishops, and it is sorely absent:
EZEKIEL 34: NEGLIGENT PASTORS REBUKED BY GOD
1 And the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,
2 Son of man, prophesy against the shepherds of Israel, prophesy, and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD unto the shepherds; Woe be to the shepherds of Israel that do feed themselves! should not the shepherds feed the flocks?
3 Ye eat the fat, and ye clothe you with the wool, ye kill them that are fed: but ye feed not the flock.
4 The diseased have ye not strengthened, neither have ye healed that which was sick, neither have ye bound up that which was broken, neither have ye brought again that which was driven away, neither have ye sought that which was lost; but with force and with cruelty have ye ruled them.
5 And they were scattered, because there is no shepherd: and they became meat to all the beasts of the field, when they were scattered.
6 My sheep wandered through all the mountains, and upon every high hill: yea, my flock was scattered upon all the face of the earth, and none did search or seek after them.
7 Therefore, ye shepherds, hear the word of the LORD;
8 As I live, saith the Lord GOD, surely because my flock became a prey, and my flock became meat to every beast of the field, because there was no shepherd, neither did my shepherds search for my flock, but the shepherds fed themselves, and fed not my flock;
9 Therefore, O ye shepherds, hear the word of the LORD;
10 Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I am against the shepherds; and I will require my flock at their hand, and cause them to cease from feeding the flock; neither shall the shepherds feed themselves any more; for I will deliver my flock from their mouth, that they may not be meat for them.
EZEKIEL 34: NEGLIGENT PASTORS REBUKED BY GOD
1 And the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,
2 Son of man, prophesy against the shepherds of Israel, prophesy, and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD unto the shepherds; Woe be to the shepherds of Israel that do feed themselves! should not the shepherds feed the flocks?
3 Ye eat the fat, and ye clothe you with the wool, ye kill them that are fed: but ye feed not the flock.
4 The diseased have ye not strengthened, neither have ye healed that which was sick, neither have ye bound up that which was broken, neither have ye brought again that which was driven away, neither have ye sought that which was lost; but with force and with cruelty have ye ruled them.
5 And they were scattered, because there is no shepherd: and they became meat to all the beasts of the field, when they were scattered.
6 My sheep wandered through all the mountains, and upon every high hill: yea, my flock was scattered upon all the face of the earth, and none did search or seek after them.
7 Therefore, ye shepherds, hear the word of the LORD;
8 As I live, saith the Lord GOD, surely because my flock became a prey, and my flock became meat to every beast of the field, because there was no shepherd, neither did my shepherds search for my flock, but the shepherds fed themselves, and fed not my flock;
9 Therefore, O ye shepherds, hear the word of the LORD;
10 Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I am against the shepherds; and I will require my flock at their hand, and cause them to cease from feeding the flock; neither shall the shepherds feed themselves any more; for I will deliver my flock from their mouth, that they may not be meat for them.
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Okay, that's a good start, I would say.
Another great point. I would encourage our pastors to take the lead on that, however. I go back to the model of training two disciples to train two more disciples and thereby train two more, and two more and two more.
You get the idea.
Just turn us loose. We're not dumb, after all. Just because we don't have a theology degree doesn't mean we can't read our Bibles.
Okay, sermon over.
Another great point. I would encourage our pastors to take the lead on that, however. I go back to the model of training two disciples to train two more disciples and thereby train two more, and two more and two more.
You get the idea.
Just turn us loose. We're not dumb, after all. Just because we don't have a theology degree doesn't mean we can't read our Bibles.
Okay, sermon over.
No, it's not. The bible says nothing about erecting large buildings, having CEOs (i.e. pastors) in charge of corporations (which churches now are) complete with memberships and gatekeepers.
We need shepherds, not modern pastors whose only function is to give a sermon four times a month and organize shows to bring in more members.
We need shepherds, not modern pastors whose only function is to give a sermon four times a month and organize shows to bring in more members.
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And here is another biblical standard that goes unchecked:
“Now I plead with you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.”
If believers were raised within a multi-generational model of fathers and sons, divisions would be rare and not the norm.
“Now I plead with you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.”
If believers were raised within a multi-generational model of fathers and sons, divisions would be rare and not the norm.