Is Obedience Necessary for Salvation?

[Jackson123]

I am not the one who saved Noah, God is. Do you think God knew if his faith was real or not?

Why wont you eat go of your legalism my friend. Why do you think you can save yourself and reject the cross

No one able to save of it self only Jesus does but with condition the condition is believe or obey
I say or because when you believe the teacher you follow His command or obey
God save Noah with one condition obey His command and build an arch

Do you think Noah have faith if he refuse to obey build an arch?

 

[Yahshua]

actually yeah they did. [...] According to the law they were the most righteous people on earth (according to the law)

^^^Prove this. Show a passage or verse saying this anywhere. ANYWHERE, sir. I challenge you. Else you're bearing false witness [breaking the law] just to support your position.

[...]Jesus even said our righteousness must exceed there’s.[...]
Thats why Jesus said Our righteousness must exceed theirs if we want to be good enough.

But hey. Continue to think you will save yourself. The Holy Spirit is the only one who can help you. We have tried. You refuse to listen

I'll continue to follow what the Messiah actually said, verbatim and in context.

Matthew 5:17-20
17 Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets. I have not come to abolish them, but to fulfill them. 18 For I tell you truly, until heaven and earth pass away, not a single jot, not a stroke of a pen, will disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.

19 So then, whoever breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do likewise will be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever practices and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you that unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.


The pharisees were hypocrites, boasting of their obedience to God all while breaking His commandments and espousing their own religious doctrine and traditions. History repeats itself. Our righteousness must exceed theirs, meaning we must not be hypocrites pretending to obey but actually obey.

 

[Jackson123]

the pharisee obayed, will they be in heaven?

If the Pharisees obey than he will believe Jesus as God
how you say Pharisees obey if he didn’t believe Jesus as God
Obey is do His command
The main command is to I believe Jesus as God

 

[Ogom]

Did you read Hebrew 5 again brother

8 Although yhe was a son, zhe learned obedience through what he suffered. 9 And abeing made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation to all who obey him,

He bocome es to all who obey

So obey than save

8Blessed are the pure in heart,
For they shall see God.


Jesus is truth... Jesus is at one with God.
therefore -- the pure in heart = (equals) those who really see God -- i.e. see truth. the purer our heart becomes -- the more we see God. the more one sees God, the more truth one comes to know.

 

[Jackson123]

8Blessed are the pure in heart,
For they shall see God.


Jesus is truth... Jesus is at one with God.
therefore -- the pure in heart = (equals) those who really see God -- i.e. see truth. the purer our heart becomes -- the more we see God. the more one sees God, the more truth one comes to know.

Amen

 

[Blik]

I don't get what that mean
Do you mean as long as we hate sin though we still sin ( do what we hate)
Some people don't care life from steal and think God die for our sin
I know a friend smoke dob and get money from stealing for living and think God die for His sin so he keep do what he do

The problem that Chris took care of was the din in our lives that would have resulted in our death. Christ said to turn from our sin, give it to Him so he can forgive us. You friend wants to keep his sin instead of giving it to Christ.

 

[Ogom]

Well show me my faults. I am listening

not sure about faults, but Christians in general can experience a great lack. the Bible tells us clearly that we know in part ........ and darkly.

many are seemingly unaware or unconcerned about this great possible lack of knowledge, real knowledge -- not supposed - taught doctrines.


consider the verse:


King James Bible

And if any man think that he knoweth any thing, he knoweth nothing yet as he ought to know.


and also:


26How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying.


for now we know in part. which part/s do we each know? which part/s do others here or elsewhere know -- that we (any of us) don't yet? how much we can learn -- from an other, any other out there -- what is missing from our own.

 

[JerryInBoston]

If you say you are saved, you will be obedient. If you are not obedient, how can it be you are saved? We are given the gift of salvation and persevering faith so that we are created able to be obedient, and therefore we must be obedient.

Matthew 28:18 "Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to Me. 19Therefore go and make disciplesd of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, 20and teaching them to obey all that I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, even to the end of the age.”

1 John 2:3 "By this we can be sure that we have come to know Him: if we keep His commandments. 4If anyone says, “I know Him,” but does not keep His commandments, he is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 5But if anyone keeps His word, the love of God has been truly perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him: 6Whoever claims to abide in Him must walk as Jesus walked."

1 John 3:2 "Beloved, we are now children of God, and what we will be has not yet been revealed. We know that when Christ appears,a we will be like Him, for we will see Him as He is. 3And everyone who has this hope in Him purifies himself, just as Christ is pure.b 4Everyone who practices sin practices lawlessness as well. Indeed, sin is lawlessness.c 5But you know that Christ appeared to take away sins, and in Him there is no sin. 6No one who remains in Him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has seen Him or known Him."

 

[eternally-gratefull]

No one able to save of it self only Jesus does but with condition the condition is believe or obey
I say or because when you believe the teacher you follow His command or obey
God save Noah with one condition obey His command and build an arch

Do you think Noah have faith if he refuse to obey build an arch?

Once again, Noah was saved the MOMENT he had faith. Just like Abraham believed and God credited him with righteousness.

Your not God. God knows who has faith and who does not.

those who have true faith WILL obey..But that obedience will nto save them.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

^^^Prove this. Show a passage or verse saying this anywhere. ANYWHERE, sir. I challenge you. Else you're bearing false witness [breaking the law] just to support your position.



I'll continue to follow what the Messiah actually said, verbatim and in context.

Matthew 5:17-20
17 Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets. I have not come to abolish them, but to fulfill them. 18 For I tell you truly, until heaven and earth pass away, not a single jot, not a stroke of a pen, will disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.

19 So then, whoever breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do likewise will be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever practices and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you that unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.


The pharisees were hypocrites, boasting of their obedience to God all while breaking His commandments and espousing their own religious doctrine and traditions. History repeats itself. Our righteousness must exceed theirs, meaning we must not be hypocrites pretending to obey but actually obey.

Dude, The pharisee was the most righteous people living in Christs day, They obeyed the law. They taught the law. They even went above the law (by adding all those other commands) thats why they had the power they did. No one could live up to their standard of righteousness.

Yet your also right. They did SIN. They were hypocrites. Because although they obeyed Moses. They rejected Christ.

He who believes is not condemned. For god so loved the world he gave his son, that WHOEVER BELIEVES shoudl NEVER PERIS but HAS ETERNAL LIFE.. NOT by works of righteousness which we have done but BY HIS MERCY he saved us

focus on these scriptures my friend. You CANT earn Gods mercy, It is freely Given bu his GRACE

For by GRACE WE HAVE BEEN SAVED THROUGH FAITH not of works.

Keep trying to earn salvation. You have already failed. And will continue to fail

 

[eternally-gratefull]

If the Pharisees obey than he will believe Jesus as God
how you say Pharisees obey if he didn’t believe Jesus as God
Obey is do His command
The main command is to I believe Jesus as God

Wow. So now you pick and chose which sins are ok and which are not.

Again, Your heart is blinded to anything which may show you the way.

I have to stop this conversation my friend. It pains me watching you throw your eternity away like that

 

[eternally-gratefull]

8Blessed are the pure in heart,
For they shall see God.


Jesus is truth... Jesus is at one with God.
therefore -- the pure in heart = (equals) those who really see God -- i.e. see truth. the purer our heart becomes -- the more we see God. the more one sees God, the more truth one comes to know.

How do we see God

By Works. or by Faith?

What is our hope in? Our works or our faith in Gods promise

 

[eternally-gratefull]

not sure about faults, but Christians in general can experience a great lack. the Bible tells us clearly that we know in part ........ and darkly.

many are seemingly unaware or unconcerned about this great possible lack of knowledge, real knowledge -- not supposed - taught doctrines.


consider the verse:


King James Bible

And if any man think that he knoweth any thing, he knoweth nothing yet as he ought to know.


and also:


26How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying.


for now we know in part. which part/s do we each know? which part/s do others here or elsewhere know -- that we (any of us) don't yet? how much we can learn -- from an other, any other out there -- what is missing from our own.

Ok. So you ASUME I do not know the word. I guess you think YOU DO?

Maybe you should read those passages to yourself my friend.

ALL SCRIPTURE IS GOD BREATHED and get what that scripture can do? MAKE A MAN COMPLETE IN GOD

If God, through his inspired word. Says the word can make us complete in him. Then I believe it.

While your right, there are many things we do not know and will never know until we see God face to face. What we NEED to know here on earth can be found in scripture Including how to be saved. By Gods mercy and Grace, Not of works Lest any one be puffed up in provide.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

If you say you are saved, you will be obedient. If you are not obedient, how can it be you are saved? We are given the gift of salvation and persevering faith so that we are created able to be obedient, and therefore we must be obedient.

Matthew 28:18 "Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to Me. 19Therefore go and make disciplesd of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, 20and teaching them to obey all that I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, even to the end of the age.”

1 John 2:3 "By this we can be sure that we have come to know Him: if we keep His commandments. 4If anyone says, “I know Him,” but does not keep His commandments, he is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 5But if anyone keeps His word, the love of God has been truly perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him: 6Whoever claims to abide in Him must walk as Jesus walked."

1 John 3:2 "Beloved, we are now children of God, and what we will be has not yet been revealed. We know that when Christ appears,a we will be like Him, for we will see Him as He is. 3And everyone who has this hope in Him purifies himself, just as Christ is pure.b 4Everyone who practices sin practices lawlessness as well. Indeed, sin is lawlessness.c 5But you know that Christ appeared to take away sins, and in Him there is no sin. 6No one who remains in Him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has seen Him or known Him."

Here you go with your works based save yourself nonsense again.

There is no MUST About it.

A child of God WILL obey. They are made new creatures. The old things have passed away all things have become new.

One day you workers for will place your faith in God to complete what he started. Which paul said he will. And Allow God to work in you and stop trying to do it yourself so you can be saved.

You WILL FAIL

 

[Kidron]

John 3:16
You believe go to heaven mean stop believe lose heaven
Now your turn to answer my question

You go to heaven because you are "born again".

Once born again, always born again.

 

[JerryInBoston]

Here you go with your works based save yourself nonsense again.

There is no MUST About it.

A child of God WILL obey. They are made new creatures. The old things have passed away all things have become new.

One day you workers for will place your faith in God to complete what he started. Which paul said he will. And Allow God to work in you and stop trying to do it yourself so you can be saved.

You WILL FAIL

You don't seem to get it. The Bible says what it says. If you are saved, you will be obedient. If you're disobedient, you're not of Christ. You won't be saved by simply doing good works, but if you are saved you will be aided by the Holy Spirit and do good works. Big difference, sunshine.

 

[Evmur]

Hebrews 10:26 For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,

1 John 3:4-10 Everyone who makes a practice of sinning also practices lawlessness; sin is lawlessness. You know that he appeared to take away sins, and in him there is no sin. No one who abides in him keeps on sinning; no one who keeps on sinning has either seen him or known him. Little children, let no one deceive you. Whoever practices righteousness is righteous, as he is righteous. Whoever makes a practice of sinning is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the works of the devil. ...

Hebrews 10-26
If we sin wilfully after receiving knowledge of the truth there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins.

The message is addressed to those who were considering abandoning the cross in favour of going back to the old way of obeying the law and animal sacrifice. But the temple [by then] was gone, the priesthood gone, animal sacrifice gone.

God's only solution for sin is the cross, if we abandon the cross then indeed there remaineth no further sacrifice for sin.

So the answer is to cling to cross, and if we have fallen away from the cross whereby we were saved let us run back to Him there.

Folks who go back to the law are holding the cross up to contempt "look" they are saying "I went to the cross but it didn't work"

 

[JerryInBoston]

Question to the OP: Obedience toward what or toward whom?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You don't seem to get it. The Bible says what it says. If you are saved, you will be obedient. If you're disobedient, you're not of Christ. You won't be saved by simply doing good works, but if you are saved you will be aided by the Holy Spirit and do good works. Big difference, sunshine.

If this was all you believe I would agree.

But you admitted if one stops being obedient they will lose salvation (as if either was possible)

so please remember what you have stated in the past.

Again, Obedience is not REQUIRED, it is a BYPRODUCT of being saved.

Being confident of this one thing, that he who BEGAN a good work WILL COMPLETE IT.

Let’s trust God to finish his work and stop trusting in self.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Hebrews 10-26
If we sin wilfully after receiving knowledge of the truth there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins.

The message is addressed to those who were considering abandoning the cross in favour of going back to the old way of obeying the law and animal sacrifice. But the temple [by then] was gone, the priesthood gone, animal sacrifice gone.

God's only solution for sin is the cross, if we abandon the cross then indeed there remaineth no further sacrifice for sin.

So the answer is to cling to cross, and if we have fallen away from the cross whereby we were saved let us run back to Him there.

Folks who go back to the law are holding the cross up to contempt "look" they are saying "I went to the cross but it didn't work"

Amen, They had no real faith. Thus did not experience the cross. And went back to what they truly trusted. In this case. The law