Biblical Eternal Security vs 'Calvinistic Eternal Security' -by Gregg Jackson

[FreeGrace2]

God knows who will accept HIS grace offer, and those that accept are the presdeistinated elect, and those are they to whom God gives the gift of salvation and faith.

In your theory,the ONLY REASON God "knows who will accept His grace offer" is because He chooses who will believe.

In the biblical theology, God knows who will accept His grace offer and everyone is able to accept it. Those who do are saved (1 Cor 1:21) and those who don't receive the lake of fire. Rev 20:15.

What is unbiblical is your synergistic view of salvation, which says When I do this, God has to do that",

You still don't grasp my view, which is the Bible's doctrine. My belief doesn't force God to do anything, but this is the false idea you think is my theology. It isn't, so please pay attention.

Do you understand that God is more than able to obligate Himself? Do you even understand what that means?

It means God has PROMISED (obligated Himself) to save those who believe. 1 Cor 1:21

when in fact the Bible teaches, as I have shown, that it is God alone by HIS grace alone that we are gifted salvation and faith.

You have NOT shown from the Bible that faith is a gift. Yes, salvation is a gift. And it is given to those who believe.

You basically are saying that spiritually dead hedonistic sinners can come to faith whenever they want

No, it's NOT 'whenever they want'. It is when they hear the Word and believe it. Rom 10-
13 for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”
14 How, then, can they call on the one they have not believed in? And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone preaching to them?

and say something like this to God: "God, I've read your word and heard your gospel message, and I know you require me to have faith in order to be saved. I want to, God, but I'm just not ready to have faith yet because I love my life and all the worldly sinful pleasure I derive from it, and having faith in YOU would mean giving up all these sinful pleasures that I'm enjoying. God, I've heard about this thing called 'deathbed confession of faith', so I'm just going to wait until I know I'm close to death to claim I have faith. I trust you will save me on the condition that I'm going to wait until I'm good and ready to be saved, and when I tell you I'm good and ready to be saved, then and only then will I have faith. So, when I'm sure I'm good and ready to have faith, you, God, will be sure to give me the eternal life you promised."

That is your view in a nutshell.

You have no idea what you are saying. Your mind is closed very tight. That is not my view. There are surely those who would believe what you say above, but so what? They may just well die before they ever get to some "deathbed".

So your 'example' again fails to be relevant. And such a claim only reveals that the person failed to get the REAL gospel. The one you propose insinuates that to be a Christian one MUST give up certain lifestyles. Where is that found in the Bible for getting saved?

So again, you just demonstrate a woefully inadequate understanding of God's Word.

 

[JerryInBoston]

In the biblical theology, God knows who will accept His grace offer and everyone is able to accept it.

Yes. That's right: In the biblical theology, God knows who will accept His grace offer

No. This is wrong: everyone is able to accept it.

Only the pedestinated elect are able to accept God's grace offer.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Yes. That's right: In the biblical theology, God knows who will accept His grace offer

That is my theology; what the Bible teaches.

Only the pedestinated elect are able to accept God's grace offer.

If you can prove this from Scripture, I'll believe it.

Can you?

 

[JerryInBoston]

Do you understand that God is more than able to obligate Himself? Do you even understand what that means?

It means God has PROMISED (obligated Himself) to save those who believe. 1 Cor 1:21

God makes unmitigated promises. Regarding the promised gift of salvation and faith, those are made to the presdestinated elect.

 

[JerryInBoston]

That is my theology; what the Bible teaches.


If you can prove this from Scripture, I'll believe it.

Can you?

To you, who are the predestinated elect?

 

[JerryInBoston]

You have NOT shown from the Bible that faith is a gift.

Yes, I have, but you reject the truth of the Word of God.

 

[FreeGrace2]

God makes unmitigated promises. Regarding the promised gift of salvation and faith, those are made to the presdestinated elect.

Is "unmitigated promises" kinda like unmitigated gall? lol

Prove your claim about who the promised gift of salvation is made to from Scripture. The promise of salvation is OFFERED to everyone. Titus 2:11

Boom!

 

[FreeGrace2]

To you, who are the predestinated elect?

Those who have believed in Christ for salvation.

Why do you think anyone was predestinated to salvation? Do you not understand Rom 8:29?

v.29 For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters.

The bolded words do NOT refer to savlation, but becoming Christ-like.

So, the "predestinated" are already believers.

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said:
You have NOT shown from the Bible that faith is a gift.

Yes, I have, but you reject the truth of the Word of God.

The problem, Jerry, is that your mind is closed to truth. You are full of opinions and talking points, and you haven't shown evidence for ANY of them in Scripture.

Eph 2:8 does not support your opinion. But you are free to cling to unbiblical opinions. You have free will to do that.

 

[JerryInBoston]

Is "unmitigated promises" kinda like unmitigated gall? lol

Prove your claim about who the promised gift of salvation is made to from Scripture. The promise of salvation is OFFERED to everyone. Titus 2:11

Boom!

Who are the elect?
KA BOOM 💥

 

[Kidron]

Yes. That's right: In the biblical theology, God knows who will accept His grace offerNo. This is wrong: everyone is able to accept it.
Only the pedestinated elect are able to accept God's grace offer.

There is no verse in the NT that says....>"only some can accept Christ".

But there are many verses that say..."all who will" and "everyone", and "whosoever"......and on and on.
Maybe John Calvin needs to take a time machine back to this verse that says..

Jesus speaking....>"If i be lifted up, i will draw ALL MEN to me"......

See that "ALL" ??????? < that means............."All"..........>Yet JC decided that in his opinion "all" meant some.

Here is the thing....... when you teach that The Cross is not offered to everyone, you are actually denying the Cross.
Its Cross REJECTION , its Cross denial to teach that God's offer of the blood of Jesus, is not for everyone..
------------------

The issue with the misunderstanding of God's '"Foreknowledge" is that Calvin could not understand something that is very obvious, which includes a lot of the New Testament.

Such as this..

That God knows everything, does not mean He causes everything.
So, the hyper-Calvinist........J. Calvin, confused >knowing< ...... with Causing.
BIG theological heresy.

Look at the word.....>"Fore- Knowledge"........this does not mean...>"to CAUSE".........It means to KNOW BEFORE, it happens.

"FORE".. nowledge.....>"before"...."it happens".....= God knew it would., and that is not causing it to happen, that is KNOWING It will BEFORE It happens.

The elect are "pre-destined, to be conformed".
That means that the born again are going to end up, finalized, (conformed into the image of Christ).... and God knew it, just as God knew who would believe on Jesus, yet, God does not cause this.... He only knows who will, BEFORE they.... you.... me. believe.

Faith Elects.
God forgives.

 

[JerryInBoston]

Those who have believed in Christ for salvation.

Why do you think anyone was predestinated to salvation? Do you not understand Rom 8:29?

v.29 For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters.

The bolded words do NOT refer to savlation, but becoming Christ-like.

So, the "predestinated" are already believers.

You mean to say there are two sets of believers: predestinated and all others? Where is that written in the Bible?

 

[JerryInBoston]

There is no verse in the NT that says....>"only some can accept Christ".

But there are many verses that say..."all who will" and "everyone", and "whosoever"......and on and on.
Maybe John Calvin needs to take a time machine back to this verse that says..

Jesus speaking....>"If i be lifted up, i will draw ALL MEN to me"......

See that "ALL" ??????? < that means............."All"..........>Yet JC decided that in his opinion "all" meant some.

Here is the thing....... when you teach that The Cross is not offered to everyone, you are actually denying the Cross.
Its Cross REJECTION , its Cross denial to teach that God's offer of the blood of Jesus, is not for everyone..
------------------

The issue with the misunderstanding of God's '"Foreknowledge" is that Calvin could not understand something that is very obvious, which includes a lot of the New Testament.

Such as this..

That God knows everything, does not mean He causes everything.
So, the hyper-Calvinist........J. Calvin, confused >knowing< ...... with Causing.
BIG theological heresy.

Look at the word.....>"Fore- Knowledge"........this does not mean...>"to CAUSE".........It means to KNOW BEFORE, it happens.

"FORE".. nowledge.....>"before"...."it happens".....= God knew it would., and that is not causing it to happen, that is KNOWING It will BEFORE It happens.

The elect are "pre-destined, to be conformed".
That means that the born again are going to end up, finalized, (conformed into the image of Christ).... and God knew it, just as God knew who would believe on Jesus, yet, God does not cause this.... He only knows who will, BEFORE they.... you.... me. believe.

Faith Elects.
God forgives.

Who are saved? The elect.

Who are chosen? Only the called.

Who are all? The elect who are called.

 

[JerryInBoston]

FreeGrace2 said:
You have NOT shown from the Bible that faith is a gift.

The problem, Jerry, is that your mind is closed to truth. You are full of opinions and talking points, and you haven't shown evidence for ANY of them in Scripture.

Eph 2:8 does not support your opinion. But you are free to cling to unbiblical opinions. You have free will to do that.

Your reading of Ephesians 2:8 is wrong. Salvation and faith are gifts of God's grace.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Who are the elect?
KA BOOM 💥

Depends on the verse. Judas was elected, per John 6:70 but he was an unbeliever.

In Eph 1:4, the "us" are believers, who are already saved.

See? You just cannot find any verses that say that God elects to salvation.

 

[FreeGrace2]

You mean to say there are two sets of believers: predestinated and all others? Where is that written in the Bible?

Please re-read my post. I never said anything close to what you seem to think I said.

 

[VARob]

Your reading of Ephesians 2:8 is wrong. Salvation and faith are gifts of God's grace.

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

The gift is not faith, the gift is salvation BY faith. God wants everyone to be saved (1 Tim 2:4).

Anyone can choose to have faith. That’s why we are to share the Gospel, to give people the opportunity to hear it so they can make a decision.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Your reading of Ephesians 2:8 is wrong. Salvation and faith are gifts of God's grace.

You have a very big problem.

The definition of "gift" proves you are wrong. Gifts are offered and received.

Gifts cannot be forced. Your theory theology forces God's gifts on the reprobate, who otherwise, according to Calvinism, would NEVER take such gifts.

So, if faith and salvation are gifts, they MUST BE received by the recipient. Not FORCED into the hand of the recipient.

If someone shoved food into your mouth, would you call that a gift?

As a Calvinist, you are going to have to call it a gift. Even if you choked on it and died.

So, by definition, even if faith is a gift, it must be received and not forced onto recipients.

You have done nothing to defend your theology.

But the biggest problem for Calvinists is the grotesque idea that God saves those that He FORCES to believe but condemns others because He PREVENTS them from believing.

 

[JerryInBoston]

You have a very big problem.

The definition of "gift" proves you are wrong. Gifts are offered and received.

Gifts cannot be forced. Your theory theology forces God's gifts on the reprobate, who otherwise, according to Calvinism, would NEVER take such gifts.

So, if faith and salvation are gifts, they MUST BE received by the recipient. Not FORCED into the hand of the recipient.

If someone shoved food into your mouth, would you call that a gift?

As a Calvinist, you are going to have to call it a gift. Even if you choked on it and died.

So, by definition, even if faith is a gift, it must be received and not forced onto recipients.

You have done nothing to defend your theology.

But the biggest problem for Calvinists is the grotesque idea that God saves those that He FORCES to believe but condemns others because He PREVENTS them from believing.

God's sovereign grace is greater than man's will to resist, and when God overcomes the resistance of the elect, the elect receive God's gifts of salvation and faith.

 

[JerryInBoston]

But the biggest problem for Calvinists is the grotesque idea that God saves those that He FORCES to believe but condemns others because He PREVENTS them from believing.

The biggest problem with you is, you have a small view of Almighty God.