Neither James (the Lord’s brother), Barnabas, Timothy or Silvanus were counted among The Twelve...

[presidente]

The 12 did not testify until they were baptized with the Holy Spirit.

Without Matthias, there could not have been a legally binding testimony under the current Jewish Law.

What about by two or three witnesses let every word be established?

 

[Aidan1]

Of course. But he was not one of The Twelve.

I would say that he replaced Judas iskarioth.
Matthias election was based on the will of the Eleven, but not from God so far.
While Pauls call was from the Lord itself.

 

[Aidan1]

He told them to not leave Jerusalem, "but wait for the gift the Father promised, which you have heard Me discuss"

The Lord also picked Barnabas at the time Paul was chosen.

But this you cant compare. Paul is the only one who was electet from God, as the other 11.

 

[John146]

Paul was an apostle. He was taught personally for three years in Egypt, and that was not with flesh and blood. If he had been taught my men he would not be considered an apostle.

Galatians 1:15 But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother’s womb, and called me by his grace, 16 To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood: 17 Neither went I up to Jerusalem to them which were apostles before me; but I went into Arabia, and returned again unto Damascus. 18 Then after three years I went up to Jerusalem to see Peter, and abode with him fifteen days.

Galatains 1:1 Paul, an apostle—not from men nor through man, but through Jesus Christ

Paul went to Egypt?

 

[AandW]

Paul implied he was not one of the 12 in I Corinthians 15 when he wrote that Jesus appeared to the 12 before appearing to Him.

5 And that he was seen of Cephas, then of the twelve:

 

[AandW]

5 And that he was seen of Cephas, then of the twelve:

Have you ever wondered if Christ spoke to Judas after His own death after Judas died?

 

[Blik]

Scripture is truth and scripture says Paul is an apostle. Scripture explains why it tells us Paul is. To me that is the same as God making a statement to me of a fact.

 

[Aidan1]

..although they were clearly apostles…

(Optional title: "Let's stop picking on Matthias")

Gal 1:19 “But I saw none of the other apostles except James, the Lord's brother.”
Acts 15: He presides over the apostolic and elder council in Jerusalem

Acts 14:11-15a “When the crowd saw what Paul had done, they shouted in the Lycaonian language, “The gods have come down to us in human form!” Barnabas they called Zeus, and Paul they called Hermes because he was the chief speaker. The priest of Zeus, whose temple was just outside the city, brought bulls and wreaths to the city gates because he and the crowd wanted to offer sacrifices to them.
But when the apostles Barnabas and Paul heard of this, they tore their clothes and rushed out into the crowd, shouting: “Friends, why are you doing this?

1 Thessalonians (My footnotes are inserted within () where you see them.)
1:1 “Paul, Silvanus, and Timothy, (This denotes who is writing the letter)
To the church of the Thessalonians in God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ…”
1:2 “We (Paul, Silvanus, and Timothy) give thanks to God always for you all, making mention of you in our prayers…”
1:5 “For our (Paul, Silvanus, and Timothy) gospel did not come to you in word only, but also in power, and in the Holy Spirit and in much assurance, as you know what kind of men we were among you for your sake."
2:4 “But as we (Paul, Silvanus, and Timothy) have been approved by God to be entrusted with the gospel, even so we speak, not as pleasing men, but God who tests our hearts."
2:6 “Nor did we (Paul, Silvanus, and Timothy) seek glory from men, either from you or from others, we (Paul, Silvanus, and Timothy) might have made demands as apostles of Christ."

The scriptures are clear: James, Silvanus Timothy, and Barnabas were apostles.

The qualifications to be numbered among The Twelve were clearly laid out by Peter in Acts.
Acts 1:21-22 “Therefore, of these men who have accompanied us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us, beginning from the baptism of John to that day when He was taken up from us, one of these must become a witness with us of His resurrection.”

1st qualification: “men who have accompanied us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us, beginning with the baptism of John”
2nd qualification; “..to that day when He was taken up from us…” So, he also had to witness Jesus’ ascension.

Now, the last line is key “..one of these must become a witness with us of His resurrection.”

The person chosen must become a witness, with the other eleven, of His resurrection. And, just to be clear, Peter declares the type of ministry the twelfth one will undertake with the other eleven: "And they prayed and said, “You, O Lord, who know the hearts of all, show which of these two You have chosen to take part in this ministry and apostleship from which Judas by transgression fell, that he might go to his own place.”

There are a couple questions that arise out of this: Why must there be twelve? I mean, apostles seemed to be in short supply back then. Why not stack the deck with as many as you could? Why not allow Justus/Barsabas AND Mathias into the ranks? If apostles were so important, the more you have the better off you are, or so it would seem.

Additionally, why was 11 not sufficient? Does God not like prime numbers? Why go through all the trouble choosing another if you already have 11? Did Peter read Revelation 21:14 and realize they were one short? (Pro-tip: “No”) These are the obvious questions for anyone who reads the scriptures. I think, as much as we are encouraged to study the scriptures, we take a lot of teachings at face value. We agree and move on without asking important questions like “Why?” or finding out how certain ideas became part of our doctrine. This, of course, is another discussion altogether.

Obviously, the number “12” was the issue of importance. So, it’s important to know why.

According to the Jewish Beth Din, their legal system in the days of Jesus, the days of the apostles; when twelve witnesses testified to a matter, it was conclusively presumed to be true. As an aside, it’s where, in American jurisprudence and in English common law, we get a jury of twelve. That is its history. Twelve witnesses testifying to a matter allowed for there to be a conclusive presumption that the issue in controversy was true. Now, we see the twelve on the day of Pentecost functioning as witnesses and that's what they said. They said (to paraphrase), "This Jesus you took, crucified Him with your wicked hands, and God raised Him from the dead whereof we, The Twelve,” (Peter stood up with the other eleven), “we are all witnesses."

The two criteria set forth by Peter were designed to select one more person to fill out the required quotient of twelve witnesses. That's why it was not eleven and that's why it wasn't thirteen, because the work was to bring the gospel, first, to the Jews on the day of Pentecost and that required twelve. Peter knew it and of course the Holy Spirit knew it. And when Judas fell, the Holy Spirit made provision, by Peter's lots, for Matthias to replace Judas.

Now what of Revelation 21:14? “Now the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and on them were the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.” Simple, there were only 12 Apostles of the Lamb: the witnesses, the apostles, who first preached the gospel in the earth. Matthias was one of them; James (the Lord’s brother), Barnabas, Timothy and Silvanus were not. And neither was Paul. None of the Gentile apostles met the criteria.

So, now that it is clear that there were other apostles other than the 12, other questions arise: What for? What is the purpose of the apostle, or, more precisely, why did God give the apostolic gift to men? What is its function in the Body of Christ? And are there apostles even today? I will continue this teaching and answer these questions another time.

Grace and Peace,
Aaron56

Apostles today you would call today missionary.

 

[Aaron56]

But this you cant compare. Paul is the only one who was electet from God, as the other 11.

Not so. Barnabas was chosen at the time of Paul. Timothy was spoken over by prophets and was confirmed by Paul to be an apostle.

 

[FreeGrace2]

..
Now what of Revelation 21:14? “Now the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and on them were the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.” Simple, there were only 12 Apostles of the Lamb: the witnesses, the apostles, who first preached the gospel in the earth. Matthias was one of them; James (the Lord’s brother), Barnabas, Timothy and Silvanus were not. And neither was Paul. None of the Gentile apostles met the criteria.

So, now that it is clear that there were other apostles other than the 12, other questions arise: What for? What is the purpose of the apostle, or, more precisely, why did God give the apostolic gift to men? What is its function in the Body of Christ? And are there apostles even today? I will continue this teaching and answer these questions another time.

Grace and Peace,
Aaron56

I've been curious about rev 21:14 for a while. I believe the 12th name will be Paul. The reason has to do with the Great Commission.
In all the passages that mentions the GC, there were only the 11 present. And Paul was given the same commission. Acts 9:15.

And Paul saw the Lord. Not only that, he was taken up to the 3rd heaven and taught directly by the Lord.

And Paul became the most prolific apostle (evangelist) in history.

If Mathias has his name of one of the foundations, I will give refunds.

 

[Aaron56]

Apostles today you would call today missionary.

Typically missionaries are sent to plant churches according to the denomination of their home church. Apostles are sent by the Lord to expand the kingdom of God, explain mysteries, and establish elders.

 

[Aaron56]

What about by two or three witnesses let every word be established?

The Jews did not recognize the authority of Christ. They first had to believe He was sent by God. After Peter stood with the 12 and gave an account, the Jews were convinced and many were added to the church.

 

[Aaron56]

I've been curious about rev 21:14 for a while. I believe the 12th name will be Paul. The reason has to do with the Great Commission.
In all the passages that mentions the GC, there were only the 11 present. And Paul was given the same commission. Acts 9:15.

And Paul saw the Lord. Not only that, he was taken up to the 3rd heaven and taught directly by the Lord.

And Paul became the most prolific apostle (evangelist) in history.

If Mathias has his name of one of the foundations, I will give refunds.

There is nothing to wonder about. The scriptures interpret the scriptures: Matthias was the 12th Apostle of the Lamb.

 

[Rolly]

Paul was hand picked by Jesus, just as were the other eleven.

Matthias? Chosen by the others against Jesus' instruction for them to wait...

Exactly they drew lots but failed to give God a choice, God was expected to choose one or the other the option for neither wasn’t on the table.

“And they prayed, and said, Thou, Lord, which knowest the hearts of all men, shew whether of these two thou hast chosen,”

 

[Rolly]

There is nothing to wonder about. The scriptures interpret the scriptures: Matthias was the 12th Apostle of the Lamb.

Still he didn’t leave much of a 🦶 print behind did he,

 

[Magenta]

Still he didn’t leave much of a 🦶 print behind did he,

2 mentions only of Matthias in the Bible, both in Acts 12, never to be heard of, about, or from again!

In fact, we heard nothing from him at all...

Pales terribly in comparison to Paul...

Oh! That any of us could be even 1/10th of what Paul was!

The greatest hero of our faith, post ascension

 

[Blik]

Paul went to Egypt?

Galations 1:17 I did not go up to Jerusalem to see those who were apostles before I was, but I went into Arabia. Later I returned to Damascus. 18 Then after three years, I went up to Jerusalem---

Sorry, it says Arabia, not Egypt.

 

[Aaron56]

Still he didn’t leave much of a 🦶 print behind did he,

Nor did most of the apostles. God had very little care for celebrity.

 

[Aaron56]

2 mentions only of Matthias in the Bible, both in Acts 12, never to be heard of, about, or from again!

In fact, we heard nothing from him at all...

Well, his name ends up on one of the foundations, so he’s got that going for him…

 

[Magenta]

Well, his name ends up on one of the foundations, so he’s got that going for him…

Do you have a verse for that? I did a search of his name and only two mentions came up...