Why do Christians believe in a place of torment called Hell?
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When your flesh dies what part of you goes to either paradise or hades? You quote Matt:10:28 “but rather fear Him that is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.” The word Body is Transliterated as “Soma” so still means Body or corpse, is it not true that our body remains in this dimension when we die? So the verse cannot be literal then, for when we die our body remains here and our soul goes where ? The verse also does not mention the Spirit at all, yet God is Spirit yes? And so is his realm, it’s not a 3 dimensional world it’s not physical it’s Spiritual, it therefore makes sense to conclude that it is our Spirit that ascends, if we’re heading off to a spiritual realm why would we take our physical self along? Of course this only holds value if you actually believe in the Trinity of man, that we are created with a Spirit Soul and body.
john 3:16 says Perish not destroy, when something perishes like a rubber tire for example it doesn’t disappear it’s still a tire it’s just perished it’s no longer fit for purpose so is discarded, as is someone who rejects Jesus they are thrown out,
john 3:16 says Perish not destroy, when something perishes like a rubber tire for example it doesn’t disappear it’s still a tire it’s just perished it’s no longer fit for purpose so is discarded, as is someone who rejects Jesus they are thrown out,
Yeah, I'm sure that is how an atheist would reply.
No, they'd probably say something like... no biggie... all we are is dust in the wind
No, they'd probably say something like... no biggie... all we are is dust in the wind
I agree that belief that there’s no punishment for the evil according to Gods own declaration after we die for what we have done while we lived on earth in the flesh denies really the core of the New Testament the wicked don’t escape Gods everlasting wrath . That’s assured throughout prophecy from the beginning he’s merciful to his own but to his enemies there is agony and wrath ahead like none other like nothing man can imagine
and in truth , everyone who didn’t make it the first round and spent time in the pit or the prison of Sheol or hell where the wicked reside in the end they will face the judgement like all
Living souls and their salvation will
Be in his hands who paid the price even for those sins and he will judge us all.
“For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad. Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.”
2 Corinthians 5:10-11 KJV
Paul understood it and preached it it’s terrifying and we don’t fully grasp it but it’s there
when we erase the terror parts we don’t want to hear we do a dis service to the truth and Gods design that saves us from the netherworlds and brings us into the kingdom
“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
Mark 16:15-16 KJV
I believe this quote from mark with all my heart and it’s really important to Me
Bbecause I believe it’s the way to escape the coming wrath of God the spiritual place of living death were speaking of
I think our way out is to believe the lord so we can receive remission of sins and then it changes everything
“Then said Jesus again unto them, I go my way, and ye shall seek me, and shall die in your sins: whither I go, ye cannot come.
And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world. I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.”
John 8:21, 23-24 KJV
that’s if we don’t believe him
but we can die in the lord and not our sins
“Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.”
Acts 2:38 KJV
“And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.”
Revelation 14:13 KJV
we should focus on avoiding the jidgement of the dead all together and just receive this now by faith and live after we part the flesh
“For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
John 5:22, 24 KJV
so to a Believer facing the death of his body Jesus can say with authority
“And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.”
Luke 23:43 KJV
Otherwise we’ll be stuck here
“Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.”
John 5:28-29 KJV
so we could be like these folks
“And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.”
Matthew 27:52
because they too heard and believed the lord preaching the gospel even long after death they heard it thousands of years later
“For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.”
1 Peter 3:18-20 KJV
Christ is amazing and even death isn’t the end and the gospel can overcome if of only we can become “foolish “enough to believe the lord
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so you have Satan , the beast ( a man ) and the false prophets ( men ) and all the people who serve Satan and follow his will and bear his mark that go into this place.
we can’t interpret it by what’s not there but what is there? Satan and the beast and false prophets will be tormented forever and ever in the presence of God[/QUOTE]
I can possibly agree that those three persons are tormented forever because the text literally says that. Or it could be figurative language.
I don't see that.
Doesn't mention eternal torment.
Doesn't mention eternal torment.
That's false.
Revelation 20:12-15(KJV)
11And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. 12And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. 13And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. 14And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
Death, hell, and everyone else in the lake of fire die again - it's a second death.
1 Corinthians 15:26 - death is destroyed
26The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
Doesn't mention eternal torment.[/QUOTE]
…God bless brother , I’m going to leave my view where it is I feel I’ve at the least made it clear why I believe what I do about it and others also have read those things is why they do also
we can’t interpret it by what’s not there but what is there? Satan and the beast and false prophets will be tormented forever and ever in the presence of God[/QUOTE]
I can possibly agree that those three persons are tormented forever because the text literally says that. Or it could be figurative language.
I don't see that.
Doesn't mention eternal torment.
Doesn't mention eternal torment.
That's false.
Revelation 20:12-15(KJV)
11And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. 12And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. 13And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. 14And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
Death, hell, and everyone else in the lake of fire die again - it's a second death.
1 Corinthians 15:26 - death is destroyed
26The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
Doesn't mention eternal torment.[/QUOTE]
…God bless brother , I’m going to leave my view where it is I feel I’ve at the least made it clear why I believe what I do about it and others also have read those things is why they do also
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[
“And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.”
Daniel 12:2 KJV
you have to exist to experience those things
“But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;”
Romans 2:8-9
you have to exist to experience those things
“And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.”
Revelation 14:9-11 KJV
you have to exist to experience those things
“And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.”
Daniel 12:2 KJV
you have to exist to experience those things
“But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;”
Romans 2:8-9
you have to exist to experience those things
“And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.”
Revelation 14:9-11 KJV
you have to exist to experience those things
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Doesn't contempt come from another person not the person feeling the contempt? Isn't it true that Hitler has a lot of contempt from Jews and the world yet he can't fell it since he is dead?
Yeah but you can also cease to exist a bit later.
You are wrong yet again. You do not have to exist for smoke of your burning to rise up. I'd say nice try but it wasn't.
Yeah but you can also cease to exist a bit later.
You are wrong yet again. You do not have to exist for smoke of your burning to rise up. I'd say nice try but it wasn't.
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Revelation 14:9-11 NKJV
[9] Then a third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, "If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives his mark on his forehead or on his hand, [10] he himself shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out full strength into the cup of His indignation. He shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. [11] And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name."
Yup, except I don’t see where it says it concludes.
[9] Then a third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, "If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives his mark on his forehead or on his hand, [10] he himself shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out full strength into the cup of His indignation. He shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. [11] And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name."
Yup, except I don’t see where it says it concludes.
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Are you a "no-heller"?
Jesus spoke more about hell than the he did about Heaven.
Being born again changes your eternal destination.
Life is eternal, as the spirit in your body, is never going to die.
Being born 2x, is why you have Eternal life.
Being born only once is why you have 2nd death.
IN both cases, the Spirit continues, but in only one case is the end result not a eternal torment.
Jesus spoke more about hell than the he did about Heaven.
Being born again changes your eternal destination.
Life is eternal, as the spirit in your body, is never going to die.
Being born 2x, is why you have Eternal life.
Being born only once is why you have 2nd death.
IN both cases, the Spirit continues, but in only one case is the end result not a eternal torment.
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The only Spirit that returns to God, is the born again Spirit.
Jesus said...>"you must be born again", and if you are not, your spirit will end up outside of Heaven, outside of God's family, of born again believers, and there is only one place that is reserved for unbelievers., and its not heaven, and its not the grave.
Jesus said...>"you must be born again", and if you are not, your spirit will end up outside of Heaven, outside of God's family, of born again believers, and there is only one place that is reserved for unbelievers., and its not heaven, and its not the grave.
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No, men's spirits belong to God.
Hebrews 12:9 "..shall we not much more obey the Father of spirits, and live?"
Ecclesiastes 12:6,7 "Remember Him before the silver cord is snapped and the golden bowl is crushed, before the pitcher is shattered at the spring and the wheel is broken at the well, before the dust returns to the ground from which it came and the spirit returns to God who gave it.
This transaction, from God to dust to make man a "living being", is first recorded in Genesis 2:7
Genesis 2:7 Then the LORD God formed man from the dust of the ground and breathed the breath of life into his nostrils, and the man became a living being.
Hebrews 12:9 "..shall we not much more obey the Father of spirits, and live?"
Ecclesiastes 12:6,7 "Remember Him before the silver cord is snapped and the golden bowl is crushed, before the pitcher is shattered at the spring and the wheel is broken at the well, before the dust returns to the ground from which it came and the spirit returns to God who gave it.
This transaction, from God to dust to make man a "living being", is first recorded in Genesis 2:7
Genesis 2:7 Then the LORD God formed man from the dust of the ground and breathed the breath of life into his nostrils, and the man became a living being.
This sounds odd.
What heaven did he reference? Didn't sound like the earthly heavens to me?
But now you say heaven is not eternal. What of New Jerusalem, then? It's going to end too. Is there any scripture that states this?
What is eternal life then?
In my Fathers' house are many mansions. If it were not so I would've told you. I go to prepare a place for you so that where I am you may be also.
Do you think that is going to end?
What heaven did he reference? Didn't sound like the earthly heavens to me?
But now you say heaven is not eternal. What of New Jerusalem, then? It's going to end too. Is there any scripture that states this?
What is eternal life then?
In my Fathers' house are many mansions. If it were not so I would've told you. I go to prepare a place for you so that where I am you may be also.
Do you think that is going to end?