Why do Christians believe in a place of torment called Hell?
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Yes he's a human as far as I can tell.
Revelation 19:20
20And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
That's where we disagree. I've also explained why it is not active punishment without end. Scriptures must remain consistent. You can't have people with eternal life in hell while also being destroyed or perished.
Jesus teaches this repeatedly:
John 3:16
16For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
People perish if they do not believe in Jesus. This is talking about spiritual death.
Revelation 19:20
20And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
That's where we disagree. I've also explained why it is not active punishment without end. Scriptures must remain consistent. You can't have people with eternal life in hell while also being destroyed or perished.
Jesus teaches this repeatedly:
John 3:16
16For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
People perish if they do not believe in Jesus. This is talking about spiritual death.
There is no life outside of Christ. One must be born again (Jesus said so!). The physical comes
first, and then? The Spiritual. If one has not been born again of the Holy Spirit of God, they pass
into the second death at the end of this age following the resurrection and judgment of all,
because they have willingly, knowingly, and persistently denied knowledge of God, Who ALONE
is immortal. These things are all quite explicitly stated in Scripture. Many teach contrarily to these things.
You use the word annihilation, but generally speaking, I do not. I prefer to
use Biblical words, such as those given in the multitude of verses I provided.
As a Christian, I have never denied the Deity of Christ.
first, and then? The Spiritual. If one has not been born again of the Holy Spirit of God, they pass
into the second death at the end of this age following the resurrection and judgment of all,
because they have willingly, knowingly, and persistently denied knowledge of God, Who ALONE
is immortal. These things are all quite explicitly stated in Scripture. Many teach contrarily to these things.
You use the word annihilation, but generally speaking, I do not. I prefer to
use Biblical words, such as those given in the multitude of verses I provided.
As a Christian, I have never denied the Deity of Christ.
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Christianity was born from Judaism. Though you'll encounter Antisemitism in some churches that deny this. Those are not actual churches of Christ and his word.
Jesus, Emmanuel, Yeshua (Joshua), was a Jew. He was born into an observant family, he taught from the scrolls, bible, in the Temple, and many of his parables were a reflection of those in the Torah.
There is no Hell as Christians know it in Judaism.
Hell was invented by the cult of Zoroastrianism first. Then it was tweaked by the pagan organized sect claiming the teachings of Christ as their own, Roman Catholicism. Also, called the Roman Rite.
Fear is a great persuader.
Which is why the church burned their enemies alive before those gathered in the villages where the church ruled.
A sort of example if you will, of the torture and suffering Hell will bring them for eternity and without ceasing. Unlike that poor screaming one lashed to the pyre.
If they really wanted to terrorize their victim and the witnesses they used green wood. This burns slower and it takes longer for their victim to be consumed.
If it is true God predetermined whom he would save, then he also predetermined whom he would not save. There exist confessions that proclaim that as well.
If Hell is believed to exist then God's trait as Omni-benevolence cannot.
There is an old truth that warns, if you believe in a god that thinks like you do and hates all the same people, you've made a god into your image and likeness.
I've known many a Christian like that.
Trust God is better than what many people need to believe is their god.
Otherwise, who will save you from that one but coming to realize him to be false.
Stay happy and in peace.
Jesus, Emmanuel, Yeshua (Joshua), was a Jew. He was born into an observant family, he taught from the scrolls, bible, in the Temple, and many of his parables were a reflection of those in the Torah.
There is no Hell as Christians know it in Judaism.
Hell was invented by the cult of Zoroastrianism first. Then it was tweaked by the pagan organized sect claiming the teachings of Christ as their own, Roman Catholicism. Also, called the Roman Rite.
Fear is a great persuader.
Which is why the church burned their enemies alive before those gathered in the villages where the church ruled.
A sort of example if you will, of the torture and suffering Hell will bring them for eternity and without ceasing. Unlike that poor screaming one lashed to the pyre.
If they really wanted to terrorize their victim and the witnesses they used green wood. This burns slower and it takes longer for their victim to be consumed.
If it is true God predetermined whom he would save, then he also predetermined whom he would not save. There exist confessions that proclaim that as well.
If Hell is believed to exist then God's trait as Omni-benevolence cannot.
There is an old truth that warns, if you believe in a god that thinks like you do and hates all the same people, you've made a god into your image and likeness.
I've known many a Christian like that.
Trust God is better than what many people need to believe is their god.
Otherwise, who will save you from that one but coming to realize him to be false.
Stay happy and in peace.
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A common misconception. Modern Talmudic Judaism and Christianity are actually cousin religions that forked from a common religious ancestor (the Biblical Abrahamic faith / Biblical Judaism). Talmudic Judaism would like to have you believe that they are the orthodoxy and that they precede Christianity: neither case is true. Christianity is the true Judaism, the true Hebrew religion, the true inheritor of the Abrahamic promise.
Some of the most antisemitic individuals call themselves Jewish and spread much hatred for anyone outside of their Rabbinic order, including towards Jewish Christians.
In the Talmud, individuals can be punished eternally in boiling excrement (Gittin 57a:4).
No.
An interpretation of the RCC culture is that different traditions of cultures were assimilated into the church in order to help conversion. Examples like Dagon, Bridget, or Helenist precepts reflect honouring of father and mother but through assimilation their idolatrous nature of the symbols was removed. An idol is nothing in itself. Despite the imagery or origin, the symbols were repurposed to honour God. In some cases this presents the opportunity for idolatry to fester and grow, but that is not the function or intention of those symbols within the RCC. We can call it baggage, but in the right circumstances there is nothing bad about them. Paul warns against partaking of things that might tempt people to idolatry, so if anything RCC is well deserving of that criticism.
Witch trials and the death penalty for those accused of blood sacrifices of humans happened. There is a lot of depth to the ethical conversation of Law and Order and how it applies to Christianity. Generally we frown upon that kind of behaviour but burning people alive still happens in parts of the world. Look up Nelson Mendella's wife and the meaning of "Necklacing".
If a church of the past was evil, it certainly wasn't the only evil in the world.
Wheat and tares. Sheep and goats. Those that are incapable of having the love of God in their heart are the ones that are not saved. But one has to wonder, if God can raise stones into heirs of Abraham, can God turn tares into wheat? Or goats into sheep?
That depends on the nature of hell and what is meant by omnibenevolence, but what you say is a good conversation piece. The Euthyphro dilemma is relevant to this. Answers may vary.
I agree with that! Peace and happiness.
Some of the most antisemitic individuals call themselves Jewish and spread much hatred for anyone outside of their Rabbinic order, including towards Jewish Christians.
In the Talmud, individuals can be punished eternally in boiling excrement (Gittin 57a:4).
No.
An interpretation of the RCC culture is that different traditions of cultures were assimilated into the church in order to help conversion. Examples like Dagon, Bridget, or Helenist precepts reflect honouring of father and mother but through assimilation their idolatrous nature of the symbols was removed. An idol is nothing in itself. Despite the imagery or origin, the symbols were repurposed to honour God. In some cases this presents the opportunity for idolatry to fester and grow, but that is not the function or intention of those symbols within the RCC. We can call it baggage, but in the right circumstances there is nothing bad about them. Paul warns against partaking of things that might tempt people to idolatry, so if anything RCC is well deserving of that criticism.
Witch trials and the death penalty for those accused of blood sacrifices of humans happened. There is a lot of depth to the ethical conversation of Law and Order and how it applies to Christianity. Generally we frown upon that kind of behaviour but burning people alive still happens in parts of the world. Look up Nelson Mendella's wife and the meaning of "Necklacing".
If a church of the past was evil, it certainly wasn't the only evil in the world.
Wheat and tares. Sheep and goats. Those that are incapable of having the love of God in their heart are the ones that are not saved. But one has to wonder, if God can raise stones into heirs of Abraham, can God turn tares into wheat? Or goats into sheep?
That depends on the nature of hell and what is meant by omnibenevolence, but what you say is a good conversation piece. The Euthyphro dilemma is relevant to this. Answers may vary.
Stay happy and in peace.
1 + 1 = 3?
The biggest lie of the devil is still believed to this day:
New International Version
“You will not certainly die,” the serpent said to the woman.
New Living Translation
“You won’t die!” the serpent replied to the woman.
English Standard Version
But the serpent said to the woman, “You will not surely die."
Berean Study Bible
“You will not surely die,” the serpent told her.
King James Bible
And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
New King James Version
Then the serpent said to the woman, “You will not surely die.
New American Standard Bible
The serpent said to the woman, “You certainly will not die!
NASB 1995
The serpent said to the woman, “You surely will not die!
NASB 1977
And the serpent said to the woman, “You surely shall not die!
Amplified Bible
But the serpent said to the woman, “You certainly will not die!
Christian Standard Bible
“No! You will certainly not die,” the serpent said to the woman.
Holman Christian Standard Bible
No! You will not die,” the serpent said to the woman.”
American Standard Version
And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
Aramaic Bible in Plain English
And the Serpent said to the Woman, “You shall not really die:
Brenton Septuagint Translation
And the serpent said to the woman, Ye shall not surely die.
Douay-Rheims Bible
And the serpent said to the woman: No, you shall not die the death.
English Revised Version
And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
Good News Translation
The snake replied, "That's not true; you will not die.
GOD'S WORD® Translation
"You certainly won't die!" the snake told the woman.
International Standard Version
"You certainly will not die!" the Shining One told the woman.
JPS Tanakh 1917
And the serpent said unto the woman: 'Ye shall not surely die;
Literal Standard Version
And the serpent says to the woman, “Dying, you do not die,
NET Bible
The serpent said to the woman, "Surely you will not die,
New Heart English Bible
And the serpent said to the woman, "You won't surely die,
World English Bible
The serpent said to the woman, "You won't surely die,
Young's Literal Translation
And the serpent saith unto the woman, 'Dying, ye do not die,
The biggest lie of the devil is still believed to this day:
New International Version
“You will not certainly die,” the serpent said to the woman.
New Living Translation
“You won’t die!” the serpent replied to the woman.
English Standard Version
But the serpent said to the woman, “You will not surely die."
Berean Study Bible
“You will not surely die,” the serpent told her.
King James Bible
And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
New King James Version
Then the serpent said to the woman, “You will not surely die.
New American Standard Bible
The serpent said to the woman, “You certainly will not die!
NASB 1995
The serpent said to the woman, “You surely will not die!
NASB 1977
And the serpent said to the woman, “You surely shall not die!
Amplified Bible
But the serpent said to the woman, “You certainly will not die!
Christian Standard Bible
“No! You will certainly not die,” the serpent said to the woman.
Holman Christian Standard Bible
No! You will not die,” the serpent said to the woman.”
American Standard Version
And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
Aramaic Bible in Plain English
And the Serpent said to the Woman, “You shall not really die:
Brenton Septuagint Translation
And the serpent said to the woman, Ye shall not surely die.
Douay-Rheims Bible
And the serpent said to the woman: No, you shall not die the death.
English Revised Version
And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
Good News Translation
The snake replied, "That's not true; you will not die.
GOD'S WORD® Translation
"You certainly won't die!" the snake told the woman.
International Standard Version
"You certainly will not die!" the Shining One told the woman.
JPS Tanakh 1917
And the serpent said unto the woman: 'Ye shall not surely die;
Literal Standard Version
And the serpent says to the woman, “Dying, you do not die,
NET Bible
The serpent said to the woman, "Surely you will not die,
New Heart English Bible
And the serpent said to the woman, "You won't surely die,
World English Bible
The serpent said to the woman, "You won't surely die,
Young's Literal Translation
And the serpent saith unto the woman, 'Dying, ye do not die,
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They are resurrected so that God can put them in their proper place. God will create a new heaven and new earth where sinners don't belong. I don't believe sinners have no spirit. I believe that they don't have the Holy Spirit. What they have is the evil spirit of their father the devil.
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I believe this is when the wailing and gnashing of teeth happens among the unbelievers (who are called the dead even as resurrected beings), who will surely know what fate awaits them. As Paul said, It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God. How long judgment itself takes is anybody's guess. We are told that all is exposed and laid bare. Gosh, for how many people??? Millions? Billions? LOL. Not that this is a laughing matter, no. It could take as we say in our modern vernacular, "forever." Believers have nothing to fear in the judgment, for our sins have already been dealt with, and it is only our works for the Lord which are weighed. I found it odd (and illogical!) that non-believers would complain about being barred from "heaven," as if they thought God should allow them entry into His house when they deny His very existence!
Being baptised in water by immersion (if that is what you mean) is NOT a prerequisite for heaven. There is no one on this forum who comes remotely close to John and Charles Wesley spiritually. They were baby sprinklers. God used them mightily. We could do with many more with their zeal, holiness, diligence and willingness to devote all they were and had to the gospel.
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Death now is not the end of existence. So why should the second death be the end of existence? If God wanted to destroy all who reject Christ, why bring them to face judgement? The word makes it clear that there are degrees of punishment for unbelievers. There is little point if all who reject Christ are annihilated. It is a great mystery and no, I am not a universalist. However, God has a plan for the unsaved. They will have to exist for eternity knowing that they rejected Christ. That is punishment enough, I reckon.
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