Biblical Eternal Security vs 'Calvinistic Eternal Security' -by Gregg Jackson

[eternally-gratefull]

FreeGrace2 said:
Let's just cut to the chase.

Do you think the ones who left lost salvation or never had salvation?

You complain about having a discussion with me yet you won't even answer a rather simple and straightforward question.

Did the leavers lose salvation or never had it? This is not a difficult question. Or do you just not know?

dude. I do not know what your problem is. But if you can not READ what other write and continue with this nonsense as if you do not know. I can not help you

lets go back and take a history of my posts to you

post # 32. they were never saved!

You failed to read what was posted.

John stated clearly. they LEFT. if they LEFT. it means at one time they were part of the church.

John is stating a fact. Although they claimed to be part of the church. THEY were never truly part of the church. In other words. Their faith was not salvic. They most likely believed at one time. Otherwise they would not consider themselves part of us.

They left to PROVE they were never of us, means they proved they never had saving faith. they were never saved.

A person can come to church for years. If they change their mind and become an athiest. John applies to them. they were never of us.. They were never saved. You do not go from being a true believer to an unbeliever unless you never truly believed in the first place.

post 36. John said they were never saved, they were never of us. Never truly believed, whihc means I believe they were never saved!

True. So if they HAD true faith. then they lost salvation. Now don;t you teach we can not lose salvation? You need to make up your mind. where these people truly saved by faith and now are athiest, or were they not truly saved. as John said?
Yep. And this is what John is telling us on 1 John, THEY WERE NEVER OF US. this means they never were part of the church. which means they NEVER TRULY BELIEVED
Yep. so these people could never have been part of the church as a true believer.
They were never given eternal life. Which is why they were never of us

the very post you are responding too

According to john, they WERE NEVER OF US. He did not say they were of us, and now are not a part part us.

He also did not say they left God. or they depasrted from God

I have told you like how many times now they never had salvation. so why are you continually asking the question you already know

I mean come on. Stop trying to attack me, I am not the one with the comprehension issue here!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Yes, because The Father doesn't force himself on anyone.

I agree, he will not.

But that does not mean he will not do what he sent out to do.

Why did Jonah relent and do what God wanted him to?

 

[Edify]

I agree, he will not.

But that does not mean he will not do what he sent out to do.

Why did Jonah relent and do what God wanted him to?

God continued to deal with Jonah because Jonah allowed it.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

God continued to deal with Jonah because Jonah allowed it.

So you think God would fail and Jonah would not have done what God wanted?

and if he died in that fish. Would Jonah be lost?

 

[Edify]

Beware, brethen, some people will steer their posts simply to win or to look like they're winning. That's their agenda. BMOC never loses.

 

[FreeGrace2]

I do not know what your problem is. But if you can not READ what other write and continue with this nonsense as if you do not know. I can not help you

I think the problem is yours. I acknowledged your answer in post #99. Don't you read posts?

 

[FreeGrace2]

Edify said:
God continued to deal with Jonah because Jonah allowed it.

So you think God would fail and Jonah would not have done what God wanted?

and if he died in that fish. Would Jonah be lost?

Wow. Apparently some believers seem unaware that God is omniscient. Such questions indicate that.

Calvinists seem over occupied with God's sovereignty to the exclusion of His omniscience. Both are equal in characteristics.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I think the problem is yours. I acknowledged your answer in post #99. Don't you read posts?

whatever dude.

Good day. I am wasting my time trying to discuss anything with you.

You should have never asked me that question to begin with. as I proved. I started showing you in post 32 what I believe. Yet you kept asking.

Its on you man.

Good luck!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Beware, brethen, some people will steer their posts simply to win or to look like they're winning. That's their agenda. BMOC never loses.

I am not steering anything my friend.

I am trying to get you to see what I am saying. You are not understanding my point.

the author stated plainly

by one offering he has PERFECTED FOREVER. those who are BEING SANCTIFIED.

I am being sanctified by God. I will be perfect when God is done with me. no matter what I do.

If not. I have not been perfected forever.

Again I ask you. If jonah died in that fish, would he have still been saved? or did God, who perfected him forever while he hung on the cross. fail?

Please answer the question!

 

[SophieT]

There it is again. The old fall-back. Lets see what the verse really says...

1 John 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would [no doubt] have continued with us: but [they went out], that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

They neglected to abide in the vine. They were not predestined for Heaven after all. This verse does not state that they were never born again. It does state that they went out out. Yes, I will agree that God knew that they would not end up in Heaven, but it is not our job to separate the wheat from the tares. It is our job to warn our membership to...

Hebrews 12:14 Follow peace with all [men], and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:

that's a post from Got Questions and I don't agree with everything they say about everything. they don't believe in all the gifts for example and I think they lean towards Calvinism? not sure about the last one

I am in-between if a person can loose their salvation or not. said that in another thread actually...or was it this one

 

[Galatians220]

From everything that I've been able to gather from scripture, while the concept of eternal security is indeed Biblical, I have yet to find a passage that states it is unconditional. Rather, scripture does indeed list a condition, one that many today are conditioned by their pet doctrines to overlook. That condition being that one can only be secure who is IN CHRIST.

It is my belief that a believer is made secure in their salvation is the exact same fashion as they are saved:

"...by grace, through faith, IN CHRIST & not of human works lest any man boast."

A person can not be saved through their own human ability to agree with certain bibical truths or religious doctrine. If our salvation is based soley on our ability to believe then our faith rests squarely on the shoulders of one's own self & human ability. That, my friends, is a prime example of a works based salvation.

Rather, our salvation is secure in the exact same manner in which we are saved; through total reliance (trust/faith) IN CHRIST ALONE.

Do you actually know him well enough to place every aspect of your entire life into His hands? Or do you place your trust in the doctrines of hopeful assumptions of religious yet sinful men?

 

[SophieT]

Forgive me, someone mentioned Hitler and his sins so he was on my mind

my point was to agree with you and show We need to see us as God sees us, not as we see ourselves.

i just used Hitler as an example I am sorry my point was lost.

got it. I was a little puzzled. thanks

 

[SophieT]

God continued to deal with Jonah because Jonah allowed it.

post giant fish swallowing him though. right?

LOL! God does not deal with all of us in this manner. but when He does, you get the point

 

[JerryInBoston]

Good post by Brother Gregg Jackson on the subject of Biblical Eternal Security vs 'Calvinistic Eternal Security'

"Calvinists all claim to believe in eternal security (OSAS) & teach you can't lose your salvation IF you "truly believed" which of course is (according to them) determined by your fruit, works, how much you sin, habitual sins etc...

CALVINIST Eternal Security is FAR different from BIBLICAL Eternal Security which GUARANTEES every born again believer is Eternally Saved, Sealed, Sanctified & Secure the INSTANT they trust in Christ alone as savior (by believing The Gospel) regardless of how they may live SUBSEQUENT to being born again.

A born again believer SHOULD live lives (as empowered by The Holy Spirit) that are holy, righteous and set apart unto The Lord.
But it is neither a REQUIREMENT for salvation nor EVIDENCE of "genuine salvation."
Many works salvationists (Calvinist/Lordshippers & Arminians) call this (as a pejorative) "easy believism," "greasy grace" and "giving people a license to sin."

But it's what The Bible says is true...
Salvation is either a FREE GIFT procured and realized by faith ALONE in Jesus Christ ALONE the very NANOSECOND a person believes or it's not.
Period..."

We are not bound by the letter of the law, but the Spitit of God's moral law guides us in our daily lives.

Yes, indeed, salvation is freely given by God's grace alone and received through faith alone in Christ alone. We are in Christ and Christ is in us. Because Christ lives in us, we follow His example as best we can and live as God has commanded, as sinless as possible, loving God first and foremost and loving others as God loves us. Therefore, because we are saved, our faith and sanctification lead us to live holy lives, remembering always what Jesus said to His disciples and to some He encountered during His ministry: "observe all that I have commanded" ... and ... "go and sin no more."

As Paul, who was personally taught by the glorified Lord Jesus, writes in 1 Corinthians 6:9-20: "Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

“All things are lawful for me,” but not all things are helpful. “All things are lawful for me,” but I will not be dominated by anything. “Food is meant for the stomach and the stomach for food”—and God will destroy both one and the other. The body is not meant for sexual immorality, but for the Lord, and the Lord for the body. And God raised the Lord and will also raise us up by his power. Do you not know that your bodies are members of Christ? Shall I then take the members of Christ and make them members of a prostitute? Never! Or do you not know that he who is joinedd to a prostitute becomes one body with her? For, as it is written, “The two will become one flesh.” But he who is joined to the Lord becomes one spirit with him. Flee from sexual immorality. Every other sin a person commits is outside the body, but the sexually immoral person sins against his own body. Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit within you, whom you have from God? You are not your own, for you were bought with a price. So glorify God in your body."

Also, as Paul writes in Galatians 5:16-24: "But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh. For the desires of the flesh are against the Spirit, and the desires of the Spirit are against the flesh, for these are opposed to each other, to keep you from doing the things you want to do. But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law. Now the works of the flesh are evident: sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality, idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions, envy, drunkenness, orgies, and things like these. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law. And those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires."

The devil and his demons believe in the risen Christ, and they know Christ is Lord, but they refuse to revere Him as lord. They are not saved by their belief but are condemned to the lake of fire because of their diobedience, they are without faith, without hope, and practice lawlessness day in and day out 24/7.

Belief that saves is belief that says I have surrendered to the Lord's command to repent and trust in, have faith in, abide in, follow and love God with all my heart, soul, mind, and strength, love my neighbor as God loves me, and observe all that Jesus has commanded, because Jesus received the death penalty that I deserved for my sins.

Hallelujah, maranatha Lord Jesus. ❤

 

[JerryInBoston]

As I understand Calvinism—and I'll admit I don't understand it that well—for the elect, salvation is irresistible and therefore they have no choice in the matter; it's going to happen. Likewise, since it's not up to them, they can't do anything to mess it up (lose their salvation).

But the New Testament teaches all who call on the Lord will be saved.

So we have a dilemma: How can both be correct? Some have suggested there are two groups—the elect who have everything already done for them; and the rest who have to actively seek and find God for themselves. Since everything's not preordained for the second group it's possible they can forsake the way by their own choice.

The jury's still out for me.

To put it simply: Calvin taught that ALL that come to a saving faith ARE the elect, and ALL the elect ARE those predestinated by God to come to a saving faith. Seems circular, but, in a way, all so sensible, too.

 

[FreeGrace2]

whatever dude.

Good day. I am wasting my time trying to discuss anything with you.

You should have never asked me that question to begin with. as I proved. I started showing you in post 32 what I believe. Yet you kept asking.

Its on you man.

Good luck!

It's ok. Everything will be fine. Don't worry about me. I'm not going to bother you again.

 

[Jimbone]

Good post by Brother Gregg Jackson on the subject of Biblical Eternal Security vs 'Calvinistic Eternal Security'

"Calvinists all claim to believe in eternal security (OSAS) & teach you can't lose your salvation IF you "truly believed" which of course is (according to them) determined by your fruit, works, how much you sin, habitual sins etc...

CALVINIST Eternal Security is FAR different from BIBLICAL Eternal Security which GUARANTEES every born again believer is Eternally Saved, Sealed, Sanctified & Secure the INSTANT they trust in Christ alone as savior (by believing The Gospel) regardless of how they may live SUBSEQUENT to being born again.

A born again believer SHOULD live lives (as empowered by The Holy Spirit) that are holy, righteous and set apart unto The Lord.
But it is neither a REQUIREMENT for salvation nor EVIDENCE of "genuine salvation."
Many works salvationists (Calvinist/Lordshippers & Arminians) call this (as a pejorative) "easy believism," "greasy grace" and "giving people a license to sin."

But it's what The Bible says is true...
Salvation is either a FREE GIFT procured and realized by faith ALONE in Jesus Christ ALONE the very NANOSECOND a person believes or it's not.
Period..."

Off the bat you have mischaracterized "Calvinist beliefs" in the first sentence. You say that "they say" salvation is, "determined by your fruit, works, how much you sin, habitual sins etc..". Off the bat you misunderstand. They do NOT believe anything is "determined" by your deeds. This is dead wrong and so off it makes me wonder how solid your case can be when your understanding of even their most basic belief is this wrong. What one does after being born again, (the works) after Jesus saves us, and BTW He gets ALL the glory for drawing me in and picking me up, is only the evidence that a true conversion has taken place, being saved determine the works not the other way around, get it? Also this isn't for everyone else to judge you, it just means if Jesus truly transformed you it will be evident in the way you act everyday and if YOU know there has been no change then you can seek harder, or know there is more to the TRUTH. This idea that they believe anything like what you're presenting here is false. You're arguing with a straw man for no reason. How about we speak to each other to learn about each other from our own mouths instead of telling each other not only what they believe, but also how they're wrong and should change it. Where do you get the idea that Calvinist are in any way works based, as in the works have anything to do with "determining" anything? I said ask question, so I will. Who told you they believe this DEAD WRONG assertion you made?

BTW for the record I am not in any way a "Calvinist" nor do I speak for them in any way, we do tend to agree on a great many things but I've never read anything by Calvin.

 

[FreeGrace2]

I am in-between if a person can loose their salvation or not. said that in another thread actually...or was it this one

Not sure?

Let's see what Jesus said.

In John 5:24 Jesus said those who believe have (as in possess) eternal life. That means the MOMENT one believes they have eternal life.

In John 10:28 Jesus said recipients of eternal life shall never perish.

Are you sure now?

 

[FreeGrace2]

To put it simply: Calvin taught that ALL that come to a saving faith ARE the elect, and ALL the elect ARE those predestinated by God to come to a saving faith. Seems circular, but, in a way, all so sensible, too.

Don't mean to rock your boat, but election isn't about salvation. Election is about service.

Eph 1:4 says God chooses believers. To be holy and blameless. That's service. The "us" in v.4 is clearly defined in v.19, "us who believe".

Now, God does choose unbelievers for service as well. John 6;70,71

 

[Jimbone]

The problem I see is that many so-called Christians are not born again to start with. Paul Washer is somewhat extreme, but he has a point. Surveys reveal that the great majority of church attenders are Christian in name only. This clouds the issue. If pastors would preach the real gospel and ensure that their congregation consisted of born again believers, we would be having much different conversations. It varies, but something like 3-4% of church attenders are in reality born again.

I agree absolutely that once a person is born again, he cannot be "unborn" again. Eternal life is just that - eternal. What confuses people is that there are two salvations, or three really. The first is to be born again, as you say it is instant. Then there is the salvation of the soul. Some call this progressive sanctification. I don't know why. The Bible states "the salvation of the soul". The third is that our physical bodies will be replaced. That also will be instantaneous.

If we replace "salvation" with "deliverance" it makes things a little clearer. Lord Jesus preached and ministered deliverance. Our ministry should be His, as stated Luke 4:18. The born again should be changing over the years. I knew nothing of any of this when I was born again. 50 years down the track, I am a different person. It's not my doing. All I've done is sin and fail and stumble and fall. "By grace are you saved" is a moment by moment experience, not a one off the time that you are born again.

To hell with "isms". They just divide and detract from the true gospel. Jesus came to give us new life, not a new theology to argue about. Can we not just focus on Lord Jesus, who He is, what He has done for us, who He is in us and who we are in Him? We argue about non-issues while the world drifts along the road to destruction. We don't have time for this.

I agree very much with you here, the only thing I want to testify is when you say "
I knew nothing of any of this when I was born again. 50 years down the track, I am a different person. It's not my doing. All I've done is sin and fail and stumble and fall. "By grace are you saved" is a moment by moment experience, not a one off the time that you are born again."

Awesome, that was how He worked in you and how you were saved. I was not saved like that. I was saved radically in an overnight, road to Damascus, was like this when I went to sleep and that the next day way. From this point was the start of sanctification for me now I desire to do His will, I want to please Him. It's been 8 years since Sept. 29 2013 and I'm still burning for Him as hot as ever. No matter how He draws us in personally, He will always be called great on the lips of anyone that truly KNOWS Him.