Biblical Eternal Security vs 'Calvinistic Eternal Security' -by Gregg Jackson

ChosenbyHim · Jul 27, 2021

Good post by Brother Gregg Jackson on the subject of Biblical Eternal Security vs 'Calvinistic Eternal Security'

"Calvinists all claim to believe in eternal security (OSAS) & teach you can't lose your salvation IF you "truly believed" which of course is (according to them) determined by your fruit, works, how much you sin, habitual sins etc...

CALVINIST Eternal Security is FAR different from BIBLICAL Eternal Security which GUARANTEES every born again believer is Eternally Saved, Sealed, Sanctified & Secure the INSTANT they trust in Christ alone as savior (by believing The Gospel) regardless of how they may live SUBSEQUENT to being born again.

A born again believer SHOULD live lives (as empowered by The Holy Spirit) that are holy, righteous and set apart unto The Lord.
But it is neither a REQUIREMENT for salvation nor EVIDENCE of "genuine salvation."
Many works salvationists (Calvinist/Lordshippers & Arminians) call this (as a pejorative) "easy believism," "greasy grace" and "giving people a license to sin."

But it's what The Bible says is true...
Salvation is either a FREE GIFT procured and realized by faith ALONE in Jesus Christ ALONE the very NANOSECOND a person believes or it's not.
Period..."

2ndTimothyGroup · Jul 27, 2021

ChosenbyHim said:

I like the body of what you've written. Just food for thought below (regarding what I've copied and pasted above):

1 Corinthians 3:2-3 NLT - "I had to feed you with milk, not with solid food, because you weren't ready for anything stronger. And you still aren't ready, for you are still controlled by your sinful nature. You are jealous of one another and quarrel with each other. Doesn't that prove you are controlled by your sinful nature? Aren't you living like people of the world?"

I realize you may not approve of the NLT translation, but the above phraseology does specifically say that poor behavior proves that a person is still controlled by the Sinful Nature, the Mind of the Devil.

Gideon300 · Jul 27, 2021

ChosenbyHim said:

The problem I see is that many so-called Christians are not born again to start with. Paul Washer is somewhat extreme, but he has a point. Surveys reveal that the great majority of church attenders are Christian in name only. This clouds the issue. If pastors would preach the real gospel and ensure that their congregation consisted of born again believers, we would be having much different conversations. It varies, but something like 3-4% of church attenders are in reality born again.

I agree absolutely that once a person is born again, he cannot be "unborn" again. Eternal life is just that - eternal. What confuses people is that there are two salvations, or three really. The first is to be born again, as you say it is instant. Then there is the salvation of the soul. Some call this progressive sanctification. I don't know why. The Bible states "the salvation of the soul". The third is that our physical bodies will be replaced. That also will be instantaneous.

If we replace "salvation" with "deliverance" it makes things a little clearer. Lord Jesus preached and ministered deliverance. Our ministry should be His, as stated Luke 4:18. The born again should be changing over the years. I knew nothing of any of this when I was born again. 50 years down the track, I am a different person. It's not my doing. All I've done is sin and fail and stumble and fall. "By grace are you saved" is a moment by moment experience, not a one off the time that you are born again.

To hell with "isms". They just divide and detract from the true gospel. Jesus came to give us new life, not a new theology to argue about. Can we not just focus on Lord Jesus, who He is, what He has done for us, who He is in us and who we are in Him? We argue about non-issues while the world drifts along the road to destruction. We don't have time for this.

eternally-gratefull · Jul 28, 2021

The op does not understand the calvinist view at all

a calvinist believe a person did not save himself, he was chosen, hence his eternal destiny was already predetermined before the world began

hence, they agree with the ops view of biblical eternal security

Chester · Jul 28, 2021

ChosenbyHim said:

While I do not agree with either of the two views you give at least the view you promote is consistent.

If I understand what you are promoting it is this:

If a person puts their faith in Jesus Christ at a point in time: that is all that matters: they are then guaranteed heaven.

If after that they kill 100 people: strangling them, torturing them, abusing them, and eating them: it does not matter - they will go to heaven! If they curse and swear at God and tell Him they do not want to go to heaven: it does not matter - they now have no choice in the matter - they are going to go to heaven even if they don't want to go there.

Am I understanding what you believe?

eternally-gratefull · Jul 28, 2021

Chester said:

I have a question.

We have a person who was brought to their knees with the knowledge of their sin and desperation based on the fact they know they are guilty and deserving of death. They come to the knowledge that God himself gave his son and his son paid their sin debt, and based on this fact alone, they call out on the name of Jesus in living saving faith. having fully repented and come to an agreement with what God says about them, about sin, and about their eternal issue.

How then could they do what you have stated this person who claimed to have faith did. by rejecting the faith they had to begin with? and what causes a person to do this?

Chester · Jul 28, 2021

eternally-gratefull said:

Ha! I could answer you, but I am going to wait to hear what what the OP says: I want to know if I am understanding him and what he believes and teaches.

I know very well that you believe and do not promote that a person can go out and sin like a Hitler. I respect you for that view, though of course we disagree on other grounds. The question you ask above is a very valid and important issue.

As you probably noticed it seems that the OP is saying that though a person who believes SHOULD live a holy life, it really does not matter at all how he lives, and we dare not doubt his conversion experience because of how he lives (even if he is a Hitler!)

I get that from quotes like these (post #1):

BIBLICAL Eternal Security which GUARANTEES every born again believer is Eternally Saved, Sealed, Sanctified & Secure the INSTANT they trust in Christ alone as savior (by believing The Gospel) regardless of how they may live SUBSEQUENT to being born again.

But it is neither a REQUIREMENT for salvation nor EVIDENCE of "genuine salvation."

a FREE GIFT procured and realized by faith ALONE in Jesus Christ ALONE the very NANOSECOND a person believes

ResidentAlien · Jul 28, 2021

As I understand Calvinism—and I'll admit I don't understand it that well—for the elect, salvation is irresistible and therefore they have no choice in the matter; it's going to happen. Likewise, since it's not up to them, they can't do anything to mess it up (lose their salvation).

But the New Testament teaches all who call on the Lord will be saved.

So we have a dilemma: How can both be correct? Some have suggested there are two groups—the elect who have everything already done for them; and the rest who have to actively seek and find God for themselves. Since everything's not preordained for the second group it's possible they can forsake the way by their own choice.

The jury's still out for me.

eternally-gratefull · Jul 28, 2021

ResidentAlien said:

I think it is the result that is in question. No matter what view you take

Whether we are elect in the calvinist view (irresistible) or the other view (Seek, repent, ask) all recieve the following

1. Eternal life
2. The seal of the spirit (until the day of redemption)
3. Justified
4. Redeemed
5. Have passed from death to life
6. Given EVERY spiritual blessing in Christ
7. Saved
8. assured that he who began a good work in us WILL complete it
9. Assured that they are perfected forever. while God is active in sanctifying them (christian growth)
10. Promised they would never die
11. Promised they would be resurrected
12. Promised that as long as Christ lives. they will live also
13. Promised that they will never be lost, and God will never depart from them (where can we hide that god is not there?)
14. Promised that we HAVE eternal life. and its in this basic of fact, which our hope lies. that we continue to believe

I can go on and on and on.

eternal security is based on the promise of God, and his faithfulness. Not on the worthiness or faithfulness of the believer no matter which view you hold

oyster67 · Jul 28, 2021

eternally-gratefull said:

Yes. The Bible speaks of this very thing...

Hebrews
10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
10:28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

eternally-gratefull said:

God does not give a man a lobotomy at the moment he is born again. We are not glorified until after the Rapture.

Hebrews
12:14 Follow peace with all [men], and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:
12:15 Looking diligently lest any man fail of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble [you], and thereby many be defiled;
12:16 Lest there [be] any fornicator, or profane person, as Esau, who for one morsel of meat sold his birthright.
12:17 For ye know how that afterward, when he would have inherited the blessing, he was rejected: for he found no place of repentance, though he sought it carefully with tears.

oyster67 · Jul 28, 2021

Chester said:

My thought is that God does not seek perfection, but He does require a timely repentance from a humble and contrite heart. The permanent hardening of the heart is what constitutes loss of Salvation. The Bible says this can happen after coming under the Blood, and not just in Hebrews.

eternally-gratefull · Jul 28, 2021

oyster67 said:

Thats funny, The author said this in the very same chapter

11 And every priest stands ministering daily and offering repeatedly the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins. 12 But this Man, after He had offered one sacrifice for sins forever, sat down at the right hand of God, 13 from that time waiting till His enemies are made His footstool. 14 For by one offering He has perfected forever those who are being sanctified.

so either the author is confused. And we were not perfected forever. Or the author was correct. And the verses you quoted do not say what you think they do.

Yeah

But we HAVE ETERNAL (not conditional) LIFE

We were told we will NEVER DIE

All those things I posted are promises of God.

By rejecting what they say, you have God being a liar.

What you are teaching above is salvation by law. By obedience. By living up to some standard.

GRACE_ambassador · Jul 28, 2021

eternally-gratefull said:

Excellent! {added my own CHRIST's FINISHED Cross-Work EMPHASIS}

Chester said:

Precious friend, we, God's ETERNAL Life {osas} believers, BELIEVE, And
teach {works that SAVE us?} the EMPHASIS above, and Also BELIEVE Plain
And Clear Scripture, What God DID For us!:

Eph 2:10 "For we Are His Workmanship, Created in CHRIST JESUS Unto good
works, which God Hath before ordained that we SHOULD walk in them."

Does it "matter how a believer lives"? Of course! We Also teach This:

Gal_6:7 "Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man
soweth, that shall he also reap."

However, Neither do we "textually Criticize" God's HOLY Word, By
Changing IT! ie: "you MUST WALK IN GOOD WORKS, OR ELSE be
ETERNALLY CONDEMNED!" This is PURELY "man-Made doctrine" - ie:

Another Precious friend stated:
"Isolating salvation without the things that accompany it is according
to a DEAD faith without works accompanying." Biblical response?:

For The Body Of CHRIST, Today, Under God's PURE GRACE!:

Salvation is 100 Percent Free, But Eternal Rewards
{incorruptible crown/reigning With HIM!} are 100 percent Earned!

man: "we are saved and justified with the works of faith by grace." = NO!
God Says:

(1) Titus 3:5-7
NOT By works of righteousness which we have done, But According
To HIS MERCY HE Saved us, By the Washing of Regeneration, and
Renewing of The Holy Ghost; Which HE Shed On us Abundantly
Through JESUS CHRIST our Saviour; That being JUSTIFIED BY HIS
GRACE, we should be made heirs According to the hope of eternal life.

man: "Isolating salvation without the things that accompany it is
according to a dead faith without works accompanying."

God Says To carnal SAINTS:

(2) 1Co 5:1-5
"It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and
such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles,
that one should have his father's wife. And ye are puffed up, and
have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might
be taken away from among you.

For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged
already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done
this deed, In The Name of our LORD JESUS CHRIST, when ye are gathered
together, and my spirit, with The Power of our LORD JESUS CHRIST,

To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh,..."
{"reaping what was sown," Correct?}

man DECLARES: "eternally damned with no expectation of hope"? = NO,
read ALL Of It!:

"...that the spirit may be SAVED in The Day Of The LORD JESUS!"

And, Also COMPARE It To The {JUDGMENT} Day!:

1Co 3:14-15
"If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall
receive {ETERNAL Life? or} a reward..."

"...If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss:..."
{ETERNAL CONDEMNATION? or, As GOD SAYS}:

"...but he himself Shall Be SAVED; yet so as by fire."
+
Also, Compare {Bible "study" rule #5} ALL Scripture On God's
{NO Mistake} Doctrine!:
God's OPERATION On All HIS New-born babes In CHRIST!
God's Eternal Assurance
------------------------------
Conclusion, for The Body Of CHRIST, Today, Under God's PURE GRACE!:

Salvation is 100 Percent Free, But Eternal Rewards
{incorruptible crown/reigning With HIM!} are 100 percent Earned!
ie:

eternally-gratefull said:

Again, EXCELLENT! All Praise And Glory BELONG To HIM Alone!!!
-------------------------

Please Be Richly Encouraged, Enlightened, Exhorted, and Edified!
God's THREE Tenses Of HIS ETERNAL Salvation: God's Simple Will!

fredoheaven · Jul 28, 2021

The OP as I understand it, speaks of Eternal Security rest entirely in God's promises in the word of God. The OP noted that good works are good and say how Christians ought to live but not really evidence of genuine salvation, for perhaps we are still in this earthly life capable of doing sin.
For it says "every born again believer is Eternally Saved, Sealed, Sanctified & Secure the INSTANT they trust in Christ alone as savior (by believing The Gospel) regardless of how they may live SUBSEQUENT to being born again". It is also stated "A born again believer SHOULD live lives (as empowered by The Holy Spirit) that are holy, righteous and set apart unto The Lord. But it is neither a REQUIREMENT for salvation nor EVIDENCE of "genuine salvation."

FreeGrace2 · Jul 28, 2021

2ndTimothyGroup said:

Paraphrased translations are lower down on the accuracy list. However, believers ARE controlled by the sinful nature when they are out of fellowship through sin.

Believers function from 2 power sources: will power, or the power of the flesh, and Holy Spirit.

Consider Eph 4:30, which says Don't grieve the Holy Spirit, and 1 Thess 5:19 which says Don't quench the Spirit.

These are commands for believers, so these things are certainly possible for believers. When believers are out of fellowship with the Lord, they ARE grieving and/or quenching the Spirit.

The command for believers to be "filled with the Spirit" in Eph 5:18 shows that believers aren't continuously filled with the Spirit.

Indwelt, yes. Continuously. He never leaves, which also proves eternal security. Eph 1:13,14.

FreeGrace2 · Jul 28, 2021

Chester said:

The reason is very clear. Jesus Christ said in John 5:24 that those who believe (present tense) HAVE (present tense) eternal life.

So eternal life is given the MOMENT a person trusts in Christ for salvation.

Then, Jesus said He gives them (believers) eternal life, and they SHALL NEVER PERISH, in John 10:28. That is the reason salvation is eternally secure. Jesus says so.

This is the crux of the issue. Those who believe that salvation can be lost always default to the worst possible behavior that they can think of or offends them the most and just can't believe that such lowlifes deserve to enter heaven.

So, the real issue is believers who are so offended by certain behaviors that THEY just cannot fathom God letting certain people in.

What they reveal by their view is a failure to understand grace.

No one gets into heaven because of earning or deserving heaven. That's what grace means.

FreeGrace2 · Jul 28, 2021

eternally-gratefull said:
I have a question.

We have a person who was brought to their knees with the knowledge of their sin and desperation based on the fact they know they are guilty and deserving of death. They come to the knowledge that God himself gave his son and his son paid their sin debt, and based on this fact alone, they call out on the name of Jesus in living saving faith. having fully repented and come to an agreement with what God says about them, about sin, and about their eternal issue.

How then could they do what you have stated this person who claimed to have faith did. by rejecting the faith they had to begin with? and what causes a person to do this?

Chester said:

To both "eternally-grateful" and "Chester",

Maybe you are not aware, but Chuck Templeton was the seasoned evangelist who mentored a very young Billy Graham. In fact, in 1947, they roomed together while doing crusades throughout Europe.

However, CT lost his faith and became an atheist over his inability to reconcile science and what he was taught about creation.

I don't want to derail this thread, but the translation of Gen 1:2 is very poor and leads to the wrong conclusion about the age of the earth. He realized the earth cannot be only 6,000 yrs old. Even carbon dating is accurate out to at least 10-15,000 years, yet gives data in the billions of years. So he concluded from the poor translation of Gen 1:2 and it's wrong message that God cannot be real, so he left the ministry as an atheist. He died that way.

To claim he was never saved to begin with is folly and assumes he was just a huge fraud, preaching what he didn't really believe.

Of course he believed what he preached. But this silly "glitch" changed his mind about the Bible. That's how fragile the faith of some can be.

Losing faith does not mean losing salvation. John 10:28 won't allow for that.

Nehemiah6 · Jul 28, 2021

ChosenbyHim said:

While I am not a Calvinist we must present their doctrines fairly. So we turn to the Westminster Confession of Faith and find that it is biblically consistent:

1. They, whom God hath accepted in his Beloved, effectually called, and sanctified by his Spirit, can neither totally nor finally fall away from the state of grace, but shall certainly persevere therein to the end, and be eternally saved.

2. This perseverance of the saints depends not upon their own free will, but upon the immutability of the decree of election, flowing from the free and unchangeable love of God the Father; upon the efficacy of the merit and intercession of Jesus Christ, the abiding of the Spirit, and of the seed of God within them, and the nature of the covenant of grace: from all which ariseth also the certainty and infallibility thereof...

They, who are once effectually called, and regenerated, having a new heart, and a new spirit created in them, are further sanctified, really and personally, through the virtue of Christ’s death and resurrection, by his Word and Spirit dwelling in them: the dominion of the whole body of sin is destroyed, and the several lusts thereof are more and more weakened and mortified; and they more and more quickened and strengthened in all saving graces, to the practice of true holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord.

2ndTimothyGroup · Jul 28, 2021

Nehemiah6 said:

While I am not a Calvinist we must present their doctrines fairly. So we turn to the Westminster Confession of Faith and find that it is biblically consistent:

1. They, whom God hath accepted in his Beloved, effectually called, and sanctified by his Spirit, can neither totally nor finally fall away from the state of grace, but shall certainly persevere therein to the end, and be eternally saved.

2. This perseverance of the saints depends not upon their own free will, but upon the immutability of the decree of election, flowing from the free and unchangeable love of God the Father; upon the efficacy of the merit and intercession of Jesus Christ, the abiding of the Spirit, and of the seed of God within them, and the nature of the covenant of grace: from all which ariseth also the certainty and infallibility thereof...

They, who are once effectually called, and regenerated, having a new heart, and a new spirit created in them, are further sanctified, really and personally, through the virtue of Christ’s death and resurrection, by his Word and Spirit dwelling in them: the dominion of the whole body of sin is destroyed, and the several lusts thereof are more and more weakened and mortified; and they more and more quickened and strengthened in all saving graces, to the practice of true holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord.

Beautiful!

ChosenbyHim · Jul 28, 2021

2ndTimothyGroup said:

Good question, 2ndTimothygroup. The truth is, if a Christian walks after the flesh long enough, they will be controlled by their sinful nature and they could put themselves back under the dominion and control of Satan.

The only way we can overcome our sinful nature in this life is by walking in the Spirit. This is how we subdue our sinful nature. It will never be eradicated in this life, but we surely can subdue it.

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