Is it Biblically permissive to beat one's wife?

[SophieT]

Clearly you have read very little of any of my posts. Way to jump in swinging in the eleventh hour.

clearly you have read little of how a Christian should love their wives

I have read this thread from the beginning and your posts disgust me

 

[SophieT]

'Willing to be abused'? how common is that. If you were a Christian wife in Saudi Arabia with a Muslim husband and Muslim family members, you might not have any choice. That might have been the case for some of the women in Grecco-Roman culture in the past, also. The question I raised was whether suffering as a Christian in a marriage is commendable before God. We should not try to take that away from an abused spouse in this situation.

the Bible we are trying...only trying apparently, if I understand what some men are articulating in this thread....to believe and follow, does not deal with Muslims beating their wives.

I am starting to think a Muslim who takes his religion seriously, might treat his wife better than some Christians do. yes I mean that

The question I raised was whether suffering as a Christian in a marriage is commendable before God.

how about the children in said miserable abusive marriage? eh? how about the kiddies who hear, see and sometimes feel themselves in such a farce?

I'll tell you what. Many of them go on to create their own living hell marriages.

 

[SophieT]

There are wives who are abusive also, verbally, and those who hit their husbands. Some people think of this sort of thing as a subject for comedy, but it must be difficult for men taught not to hit women, to have a woman hitting him whenever she gets mad. I read a post from a man whose ex-wife would hit him to wake him up in the middle of the night and crazy stuff like that. Even if she is much smaller than he is, it can be a dangerous situation. Men sleep, too, and there are knives in the kitchen. Anyway, my point is it goes both ways.

As far as my 'risks' comments, I made it clear earlier that I was talking about the idea of ultimatums about going to counselors in general, not the abuse topic.

if they are Christian, they have no business being abusive either. it is no comedy. my father was hit, had things thrown at him etc...he never raised his hand to his wife. there is no excuse for either a man or woman, being abusive.

however, that is not the subject of this thread. the book the op was referring to, is about men physically putting their wives under submission. there is no doubt women also are abusive.

I never said a thing about ultimatums. I would not think that a good idea.

 

[crossnote]

1 Peter 2:20-25 Proof text used by a study.

Easy-to-Read Version

20 But if you are punished for doing wrong, there is no reason to praise you for bearing that punishment. But if you suffer for doing good and you are patient, this pleases God. 21 This is what you were chosen to do. Christ gave you an example to follow. He suffered for you. So you should do the same as he did:
22 “He never sinned,
and he never told a lie.”
23 People insulted him, but he did not insult them back. He suffered, but he did not threaten anyone. No, he let God take care of him. God is the one who judges rightly. 24 Christ carried our sins in his body on the cross. He did this so that we would stop living for sin and live for what is right. By his wounds you were healed. 25 You were like sheep that went the wrong way. But now you have come back to the Shepherd and Protector of your lives.
"

From the Study, A link to the below study was part of a link posted. I do not agree with beating one's wife.

"f. Submission to an unbelieving husband, partnership with a believing wife. Submission and living with an unbelieving husband. In 1Pet.3v1-6., Peter gives a totally different emphasis, he states how a Christian wife must act if they are married to an unbeliever. a) Many more women than men have been converted in Church history, so the combination of a believing wife with an unbelieving husband has been a common occurrence. A Christian woman must not argue with or preach at their unbelieving husband, but submit, and win their husbands without a word. In 1Pet.2v11 to 3v8., Peter suggests that a Christian wife should be prepared to stand some abuse, he says “Likewise ye wives,” and infers that wives are to stand some buffeting like slaves, and be submissive even to the harsh, and take ill treatment patiently like Jesus. Submission means that we trust God to work things out, like Jesus, who though brutally treated, “kept entrusting himself to Him who judges righteously.” 1Pet.2v23. " https://truthforthelastdays.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/marriage_and_divorce.pdf

1 Peter 3:1
Likewise, ye wives, be in subjection to your own husbands; that, if any obey not the word, they also may without the word be won by the conversation of the wives;

1 Peter 1:22
Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:

Ephesians 5:28
So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself.


1 Peter 2:23
King James Version
23 Who, when he was reviled, reviled not again; when he suffered, he threatened not; but committed himself to him that judgeth righteously:

Hopefully she didn't go marry an unbeliever or a wolf in a wedding tuxedo.
No Christian man should even dream of beating his wife... that is cowardly and disgusting.

 

[presidente]

I never said a thing about ultimatums. I would not think that a good idea.

I may be mistaken, but I do not believe my initial comments that you responded to about counseling were in response to your post.

 

[SophieT]

II Peter 3 mentions husbands who do not obey the word, which includes unbelievers.

the lengths you will go to in an attempt to somehow come out ahead on this one even though it is impossible

AGAIN, this thread is about MEN calling themselves CHRISTIAN who hit their wives in order to 'submit' them...read the op again. I don't care how much you wish to deflect, it has no bearing on this thread but please feel free to creat another in which to introduce an entire school of red herrings

Why don't you address the actual points made in the post if you are going to reply, instead of obfuscating the issues with comments like this?

your wife must be a little confused because you seem rather good at gaslighting. look it up

If you consider a comment to be rambling, you do not have to reply.

my prerogative in how or what I answer...

A lot of other subpoints show up in conversations like these. It's how conversations work. Otherwise people would just post 'yes' or 'no' and that would be it.

gee you know I am a stickler for keeping on track. that is not a vice and does not suit you very well it would seem

 

[SophieT]

Can you find one thread on this forum where wives submitting to husbands is mentioned, but husbands loving their wives is not? People read that husbands are to love their wives as Christ loves the church and no one objects. But there are often negative comments and backlash when the subject of wives submitting to husbands is mentioned.

hmmm.....that is almost funny. it is almost, mind you I said almost, the women who bring that up. I'm the woman who brought it up here along with a couple of others.

the real question is, can you point out to me where you or hungry or learning man pointed that out? (well learning is confused period but you tend to try and confuse the people you post to)

oh you bet your sweet aunt Hildeguard there is backlash. have you read this thread? LOL! smh

Suggesting someone may beat their wife, children, their dog, is a homosexual, or other stigmatized behavior, is often not appreciated.

then don't do it. I know I didn't. gaslight much?

And nothing is quoted for what you addressed your comments to. I'm not reading up the thread for it. The forum cuts off imbedded quotes like that. You have to insert them manually.

oh the drama. so much effort

 

[SophieT]

So, do you not think first century slaves enduring persecution in a domestic violence situation was not commendable before God no matter what the Bible says?

What about martyrs? Was what Stephen suffered commendable? Did Peter's death glorify God like the book of John says? What do you think about Jesus dying on the cross?

again, does not describe a marriage between CHRISTIANS. I can keep that up all day. you? LOL!

 

[SophieT]

I may be mistaken, but I do not believe my initial comments that you responded to about counseling were in response to your post.

clarify or let it die

 

[Hungry]

No, I have clearly responded to your criticism. And I have clearly quoted you too. You have no biblical refusing of the thing I addressed in the post you just responded to which you mocked in a different post.

That doesn’t even make sense. Where in Scripture does it state man does not have animal instincts? In fact it does state that man is also flesh. The ridiculousness of this entire conversation aside from your complete obliviousness of human nature, the very nature Paul wrote about, is that you seem to think that just because I see how the endocrine system works that somehow this dictates my actions. I’m fully aware of how God wants us to be. My point from the start is that we, even Christians, do not function as designed. I’m done. Be oblivious.

 

[SophieT]

The flesh has programming

God has that covered! sin has done some nasty nasty things with what God said was perfect

2 Do not conform to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God’s will is—his good, pleasing and perfect will. Romans 12:2

YOU, are reprogramming your gray matter with 50 shades of other gray, the world, the devil and the world systems.

that is what you convey in your posts. you would be surprised what I heard in university...I don't have to live my life according to it though...or according to Freud or other sundry enterprising men who wish to belittle and dominate women.

 

[presidente]

hmmm.....that is almost funny. it is almost, mind you I said almost, the women who bring that up. I'm the woman who brought it up here along with a couple of others.

I have not followed all your posts in the thread. I quoted the part about loving one's wife as one's own flesh to Hungry in a previous post.

the real question is, can you point out to me where you or hungry or learning man pointed that out? (well learning is confused period but you tend to try and confuse the people you post to)

I do not always read every thread. I am not responsible for their posts and I do not know if I have even read all of them. I find your questions and posts in my direction so far kind of annoying, as if you want to bicker or find fault or something like that... and police the discussion. So, I am not that willing to go back and look through the thread to figure out what you are talking about when you say you are quoting me and posting nothing.

oh you bet your sweet aunt Hildeguard there is backlash. have you read this thread? LOL! smh

I was talking about the Biblical teaching that wives submit to their husbands. Not wife beating. Of course there is backlash against wife-beating posts. I would imagine some of the posters opposed to it on this forum would acknowledge that they believe wives should submit to their husbands.

then don't do it. I know I didn't. gaslight much?

Mentioning someone along with wifebeating is like mentioning their name along with child molestation, homosexuality, etc. Would like a post that says 'Is SophiaT a Lesbian?' It's not saying you are, but you probably would not like the two ideas connected in a post.

oh the drama. so much effort View attachment 229743

It is your quote. You look it up.

 

[presidente]

again, does not describe a marriage between CHRISTIANS. I can keep that up all day. you? LOL!

That's what I posted about. I don't care about your rules about what the discussion should be about. If you do not want to discuss my posts in the context of what I was discussing, please do not quote or reply to me. If you do, that's fine. I will not subject my thoughts and posts to your whims. If you are a mod or forum owner or something like that, my stance would be different on the matter. If you are, I am unaware of it.

 

[SophieT]

That doesn’t even make sense. Where in Scripture does it state man does not have animal instincts? In fact it does state that man is also flesh. The ridiculousness of this entire conversation aside from your complete obliviousness of human nature, the very nature Paul wrote about, is that you seem to think that just because I see how the endocrine system works that somehow this dictates my actions. I’m fully aware of how God wants us to be. My point from the start is that we, even Christians, do not function as designed. I’m done. Be oblivious.

who do you think you are talking to? I am not referring to the fact he is a mod either

I have a thorough education on what you are trying to convey as the norm....only I doubt that you do. you put in bits and pieces of something you think makes you sound like you know what you are talking about...but I don't think you do. your posts are actually not all that cohesive so it becomes obvious you are reading hear and there and think you know something

are you really done? or should I continue to pray that you are? I would love this thread shut down

 

[SophieT]

That's what I posted about. I don't care about your rules about what the discussion should be about. If you do not want to discuss my posts in the context of what I was discussing, please do not quote or reply to me. If you do, that's fine. I will not subject my thoughts and posts to your whims. If you are a mod or forum owner or something like that, my stance would be different on the matter. If you are, I am unaware of it.

you are sounding quite silly right now. you are not discussing this thread is my point and I am

why is it you cannot seem to stay on point? you are rambling

 

[Hungry]

God has that covered! sin has done some nasty nasty things with what God said was perfect

2 Do not conform to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God’s will is—his good, pleasing and perfect will. Romans 12:2

YOU, are reprogramming your gray matter with 50 shades of other gray, the world, the devil and the world systems.

that is what you convey in your posts. you would be surprised what I heard in university...I don't have to live my life according to it though...or according to Freud or other sundry enterprising men who wish to belittle and dominate women.

If somebody told me 2+2=green, I wouldn’t say, “Wow, that’s profound. I never thought of that. Maybe you’re right.” I’m well aware that society does not act and think within the confines of Christ-likeness. The world doesn’t program me. I observe behaviour and analyze why people would act like they do. Those who are not born of the spirit have only the flesh to lead them. The chemistry exists in all of us. We have the decision to serve the flesh or serve God. I choose the latter.

 

[SophieT]

Mentioning someone along with wifebeating is like mentioning their name along with child molestation, homosexuality, etc. Would like a post that says 'Is SophiaT a Lesbian?' It's not saying you are, but you probably would not like the two ideas connected in a post.

go for it and see how that plays out.

you are, once again, gaslighting since YOU are the one that introduced the kitchen sink while I have stayed with the topic

 

[SophieT]

If somebody told me 2+2=green, I wouldn’t say, “Wow, that’s profound. I never thought of that. Maybe you’re right.” I’m well aware that society does not act and think within the confines of Christ-likeness. The world doesn’t program me. I observe behaviour and analyze why people would act like they do. Those who are not born of the spirit have only the flesh to lead them. The chemistry exists in all of us. We have the decision to serve the flesh or serve God. I choose the latter.

actually yellow and blue make green.

you can say one thing about yourself and even believe it, but you do not have me convinced and I suspect, I am not alone

 

[SophieT]

That's what I posted about. I don't care about your rules about what the discussion should be about. If you do not want to discuss my posts in the context of what I was discussing, please do not quote or reply to me. If you do, that's fine. I will not subject my thoughts and posts to your whims. If you are a mod or forum owner or something like that, my stance would be different on the matter. If you are, I am unaware of it.

he said as he stamped his foot and made an angry face

 

[CS1]

That doesn’t even make sense. Where in Scripture does it state man does not have animal instincts? In fact it does state that man is also flesh. The ridiculousness of this entire conversation aside from your complete obliviousness of human nature, the very nature Paul wrote about, is that you seem to think that just because I see how the endocrine system works that somehow this dictates my actions. I’m fully aware of how God wants us to be. My point from the start is that we, even Christians, do not function as designed. I’m done. Be oblivious.

do you have any biblical response to the question of the thread? I am glad you are done. You are fully aware of HOW God wants US to be? Wow, impressive most Christian look at the word of God to define that.

Mostly in context to the New Testament.

With the word “flesh” we are dealing with something else. Only very rarely does the Biblical phrase “the flesh” (ἡ σὰρξ (he sarx), in Greek) refer only to the physical body (eg. John 6:53; Phil 3:2; 1 John 4:2) , but almost always the phrase refers to something quite distinct from the physical body.

What then is meant by the term “the flesh” (ἡ σὰρξ)? Perhaps most plainly it refers to that part of us that is alienated from God.

It is the rebellious, unruly and obstinate part of our inner self that is operative all the time. It is that part of us that does not want to be told what to do. It is stubborn, refuses correction, and does not want to have a thing to do with God.

It bristles at limits and rules. It recoils at anything that might cause me to be diminished or something less than the center of the universe. The flesh hates to be under authority or to have to yield to anything other than its own wishes and desires.

The flesh deal with the sinful nature

The flesh is in direct conflict with the spirit.


1. The Flesh does not grasp spiritual teachings – [Jesus said] The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you are spirit and they are life. (John 6:63)

2. The flesh is not willing to depend on anyone or anything outside its own power or control

3. The Flesh hates to be told what to do

4. Flesh is as flesh does – Those who live according to the flesh have their minds set on what the flesh desires; but those who live in accordance with the spirit have their minds set on what the spirit desires. The concern of the flesh is death, but the concern of the spirit is life and peace (Rom 8:5-6)


5. The Flesh is intrinsically hostile to God – The mind of the flesh is hostile to God. It does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so. Those controlled by the flesh cannot please God. (Rom 8:7-8)

6. The Flesh abuses freedom – You, my brothers, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the flesh; rather, serve one another in love. (Gal 5:13)

7. The Flesh Demands to be fed – So I say, live by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh. For the flesh desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the sinful nature. They are in conflict with each other, so that you do not do what you want. (Gal 5:16-17)

8. The Flesh fuels sin – The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God (Gal 5:19-210)


here end your lesson and be free from your addictions