Is it Biblically permissive to beat one's wife?
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I hate to say it, it is the men of the Christian Domestic Discipline cult.
1 John 3:10
New Revised Standard Version
10 The children of God and the children of the devil are revealed in this way: all who do not do what is right are not from God, nor are those who do not love their brothers and sisters
1 John 3:10
New Revised Standard Version
10 The children of God and the children of the devil are revealed in this way: all who do not do what is right are not from God, nor are those who do not love their brothers and sisters
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The point is that it says husbands agape your wives as Christ loved the church and gave Himself up for her. It doesn’t say husbands do not physically punish your wives. I agree we shouldn’t. It’s not because I read it in the Bible. Scripturally there is laws for everything including how far you can walk on the Sabbath, how much you can beat a slave, the inheritance rights of children born to sex slaves, and even beastiality. What it doesn’t have a Law for is, beating your wife. I would assume that beastiality is less common than spousal abuse and more obviously unacceptable. Why is it not mentioned? This is the issue. No Christian should want to beat anyone. The question isn’t, should you? The question is, whether there is language against it. For the record there is not specific language saying DON’T. There is only conjecture that we shouldn’t because it is what we deem “unloving”.
Side bar about the verse you quoted about Christ loving the church: that could be turned around. The church accepts Christ as Lord and becomes one as His Body, His Bride. Those who are fake, who claim in name to be His, with no love in their hearts. Them goats He cast into the lake of fire. This is not promoting violence, merely adding perspective.
Side bar about the verse you quoted about Christ loving the church: that could be turned around. The church accepts Christ as Lord and becomes one as His Body, His Bride. Those who are fake, who claim in name to be His, with no love in their hearts. Them goats He cast into the lake of fire. This is not promoting violence, merely adding perspective.
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I do not get angry. There is no purpose in it. I have no problem applying logic to Scripture and Scripture to logic. They coexist synergistically. The problem is when there is a discrepancy and you dismiss Scripture to accept the academic agenda. Every bit of belief I have is Scripturally justified or at least not in opposition to.
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'Willing to be abused'? how common is that. If you were a Christian wife in Saudi Arabia with a Muslim husband and Muslim family members, you might not have any choice. That might have been the case for some of the women in Grecco-Roman culture in the past, also. The question I raised was whether suffering as a Christian in a marriage is commendable before God. We should not try to take that away from an abused spouse in this situation.
I don’t hit myself, but yes my body has been refined by “abuse” to become a vessel of great servitude. My flesh obeys me, and I submit it to the Lord. What the Lord has asked me to tolerate is great abuse, but I allow it because He shows me the product of my suffering. It doesn’t mean I desire to hit my wife. There is no purpose in it. I accept the discipline of God because I am a disciple. My wife is not my disciple so the suffering would not teach, only hurt.
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There are wives who are abusive also, verbally, and those who hit their husbands. Some people think of this sort of thing as a subject for comedy, but it must be difficult for men taught not to hit women, to have a woman hitting him whenever she gets mad. I read a post from a man whose ex-wife would hit him to wake him up in the middle of the night and crazy stuff like that. Even if she is much smaller than he is, it can be a dangerous situation. Men sleep, too, and there are knives in the kitchen. Anyway, my point is it goes both ways.
As far as my 'risks' comments, I made it clear earlier that I was talking about the idea of ultimatums about going to counselors in general, not the abuse topic.
II Peter 3 mentions husbands who do not obey the word, which includes unbelievers.
Why don't you address the actual points made in the post if you are going to reply, instead of obfuscating the issues with comments like this?
If you consider a comment to be rambling, you do not have to reply.
A lot of other subpoints show up in conversations like these. It's how conversations work. Otherwise people would just post 'yes' or 'no' and that would be it.
Can you find one thread on this forum where wives submitting to husbands is mentioned, but husbands loving their wives is not? People read that husbands are to love their wives as Christ loves the church and no one objects. But there are often negative comments and backlash when the subject of wives submitting to husbands is mentioned.
Suggesting someone may beat their wife, children, their dog, is a homosexual, or other stigmatized behavior, is often not appreciated.
[/quote]
And nothing is quoted for what you addressed your comments to. I'm not reading up the thread for it. The forum cuts off imbedded quotes like that. You have to insert them manually.
As far as my 'risks' comments, I made it clear earlier that I was talking about the idea of ultimatums about going to counselors in general, not the abuse topic.
II Peter 3 mentions husbands who do not obey the word, which includes unbelievers.
Why don't you address the actual points made in the post if you are going to reply, instead of obfuscating the issues with comments like this?
If you consider a comment to be rambling, you do not have to reply.
A lot of other subpoints show up in conversations like these. It's how conversations work. Otherwise people would just post 'yes' or 'no' and that would be it.
Can you find one thread on this forum where wives submitting to husbands is mentioned, but husbands loving their wives is not? People read that husbands are to love their wives as Christ loves the church and no one objects. But there are often negative comments and backlash when the subject of wives submitting to husbands is mentioned.
Suggesting someone may beat their wife, children, their dog, is a homosexual, or other stigmatized behavior, is often not appreciated.
[/quote]
And nothing is quoted for what you addressed your comments to. I'm not reading up the thread for it. The forum cuts off imbedded quotes like that. You have to insert them manually.
I Peter 2
20 For what credit is it if, when you are beaten for your faults, you take it patiently? But when you do good and suffer, if you take it patiently, this is commendable before God.
(NKJV)
So, do you not think first century slaves enduring persecution in a domestic violence situation was not commendable before God no matter what the Bible says?
What about martyrs? Was what Stephen suffered commendable? Did Peter's death glorify God like the book of John says? What do you think about Jesus dying on the cross?
20 For what credit is it if, when you are beaten for your faults, you take it patiently? But when you do good and suffer, if you take it patiently, this is commendable before God.
(NKJV)
So, do you not think first century slaves enduring persecution in a domestic violence situation was not commendable before God no matter what the Bible says?
What about martyrs? Was what Stephen suffered commendable? Did Peter's death glorify God like the book of John says? What do you think about Jesus dying on the cross?
This seems to fit the passage, except I do not know that the woman would not have been married for life. What would she do when her fad dies?
Sex with a betrothed with someone besides the betrothed virgin carried the death penalty like adultery. If it was consensual both were worthy of death. If a man raped a virgin betrothed to another man, only he was worthy of death.
Sex with a betrothed with someone besides the betrothed virgin carried the death penalty like adultery. If it was consensual both were worthy of death. If a man raped a virgin betrothed to another man, only he was worthy of death.
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you forget your own post in #17 where you said:
"I’m not writing this from a Biblical perspective but you can’t deny this. Spanking is a huge turn-on for some women. "
human logic and biblical application are not coe-equal. And you are wrong about dismissing scripture to accept an academic agenda, yet you are doing the same thing you claim I and others do. human reason and scripture do not synergistically coexist, the carnal mind must surrender to the Holy Spirit and be renewed by the word of God to receive the mind of Christ.
You said every bit of belief you have is justified by scripture and not opposed to it, if that is true where did your understanding of scripture?
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Are you saying that we do not respond in the same way as many mammals? Are you denying that some women do get sexually stimulated by being disciplined? You have made yourself clear, life doesn’t exist outside of the Bible for you. I got it. We are spirit and flesh. Deny it all you want.
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What I am pointing out is what you said at this point of posting:
"Every bit of belief I have is Scripturally justified or at least not in opposition to."
But your original post contradicts the above statement
"I’m not writing this from a Biblical perspective but you can’t deny this. Spanking is a huge turn-on for some women. "
The Word of God says we are not created to respond the same way as Mammals. it was the fall of man that brought perversion into the world. Man was created for God's good pleasure to rule the earth God entrusted them with. it is not that life doesn't exist outside the bible as you suggest one thinks, what I believe the word of God says is the fallen world will not produce LIFE or eternal life.
The flesh is not saved it will die. it is not that I am denying the fact women who were abused over a time period as men see stimulation in sexual abuse, do you not see that as an abnormal reaction to being abused? Instead of dealing with abuse as a wrong you see as one should embrace it because eventually you will be overcome by the abuse and enjoy it. Like all addictions and stronghold there is pleasure in the sin, yet you failed to address the torment of the sin.
Yet that is all ok with you as long as a woman has sexual stimulation from the spanking.
You are not looking at it from a biblical Christ-like position. Most don't have pride, anger, selfishness, and perverted hearts.
"Every bit of belief I have is Scripturally justified or at least not in opposition to."
But your original post contradicts the above statement
"I’m not writing this from a Biblical perspective but you can’t deny this. Spanking is a huge turn-on for some women. "
The Word of God says we are not created to respond the same way as Mammals. it was the fall of man that brought perversion into the world. Man was created for God's good pleasure to rule the earth God entrusted them with. it is not that life doesn't exist outside the bible as you suggest one thinks, what I believe the word of God says is the fallen world will not produce LIFE or eternal life.
The flesh is not saved it will die. it is not that I am denying the fact women who were abused over a time period as men see stimulation in sexual abuse, do you not see that as an abnormal reaction to being abused? Instead of dealing with abuse as a wrong you see as one should embrace it because eventually you will be overcome by the abuse and enjoy it. Like all addictions and stronghold there is pleasure in the sin, yet you failed to address the torment of the sin.
- the dissatisfaction and emptiness after sexual act is done
- the loneliness
- anger and regret
- depression and coe -dependency
- lack of self-worth
Yet that is all ok with you as long as a woman has sexual stimulation from the spanking.
You are not looking at it from a biblical Christ-like position. Most don't have pride, anger, selfishness, and perverted hearts.
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S
you have a real problem mister
you cannot accept the fact that normal women do not care to be abused and normal men do not care to abuse them
no. you cannot turn that verse in scripture around. what a notion! LOL!
you need to read more Bible and less anti-God literature put out by God hating researchers who interpret the material like any good evolutionist who thinks their great great great(add a bunch more greats) granddaddy was a monkey
there is no issue. I would say shame on you, but that sounds childish. the shame is in you determining your course of action by the world.
you cannot accept the fact that normal women do not care to be abused and normal men do not care to abuse them
no. you cannot turn that verse in scripture around. what a notion! LOL!
you need to read more Bible and less anti-God literature put out by God hating researchers who interpret the material like any good evolutionist who thinks their great great great(add a bunch more greats) granddaddy was a monkey
there is no issue. I would say shame on you, but that sounds childish. the shame is in you determining your course of action by the world.
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I don’t think you even read my posts. Your arguments are extremely off base. Do you see many mammals spanking each other? We respond to reproduction cues steered by our hormones. You can’t
possibly understand humans only based on what you read in the Bible. Dude think what you want about me. The flesh has programming. If you ignore that there is programming then you eliminate the chance of fighting spiritual warfare in the carnal realm. I have not and do not think physical abuse is recommended. All I have stated was that Scripturally it doesn’t speak against it directly. I’m done trying to defend myself against your unfounded accusations. Why don’t you look up being a false witness. You have other posters chiming in based on your ridiculous arguments. Keep it up and you will be reported.
possibly understand humans only based on what you read in the Bible. Dude think what you want about me. The flesh has programming. If you ignore that there is programming then you eliminate the chance of fighting spiritual warfare in the carnal realm. I have not and do not think physical abuse is recommended. All I have stated was that Scripturally it doesn’t speak against it directly. I’m done trying to defend myself against your unfounded accusations. Why don’t you look up being a false witness. You have other posters chiming in based on your ridiculous arguments. Keep it up and you will be reported.
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