Why are we christians in the habit of misapplying this text?

ForestGreenCook · Jul 17, 2021

CS1 said:

I do not know if you reference the Greek meaning of words in the scriptures, or not, and I don't mean to be disrespectful, but it is my experience, that you can never understand the scriptures without referencing the Greek meaning of certain words, such as; saved, world, life, death,. Also in keeping the scriptures in context. All scriptures must harmonize in order to know the truths within them.

GRACE_ambassador · Jul 17, 2021

ForestGreenCook said:

Precious friend, IF we have to become "language scholars," to understand
Scriptures, Many of us are in BIG trouble. Did Not God PRESERVE HIS Word
For me, in my OWN language?

I cannot find a "study" rule In Scripture, For "this kind of scholarship"?
How about Rule 5(c) in: Bible "study" Rules ?

Please be Richly Encouraged, enlightened, exhorted, and edified!
God's Simple Will!

CS1 · Jul 17, 2021

ForestGreenCook said:

that is partly correct because much of what is said in Greek was also translated from Hebrew. When Jesus says in the New Testament as an example in MATTHEW chapter 5:21-22, 27-28

21 “You have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not murder, and whoever murders will be in danger of the judgment.’ 22 But I say to you that whoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment.

We must go to the Old Testament law to see what Jesus is say with what HE just said

27 “You have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’ 28 But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

Again Jesus is referencing the Law which was written in Hebrew. There is even a more direct quote by Jesus of the Book of Deuteronomy in Luke chapter four.

LUke4:4

4 But Jesus answered him, saying, “It is written, ‘Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God.’ (quoting Deu 8:3)

8 And Jesus answered and said to him, “Get behind Me, Satan! For it is written, ‘You shall worship the LORD your God, and Him only you shall serve.’ (quoting Deu 6:13, 26:10)

Both Old and New Hebrew and Greek all scripture is needed. I do not think you are being disrespectful.,

reneweddaybyday · Jul 17, 2021

TheLearner said:

Since you hold to "a Jewish way of reading the Scriptures", and Matthew 1:22-23 tell us ...

Matthew 1:22-23 Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.

... then Matt 1:22-23 is the fulfillment of the prophecy referred to in Isaiah.

TheLearner · Jul 17, 2021

ewq1938 said:

I posted the documentation, deny history all you want. It happened.
God Bless friend.

TheLearner · Jul 17, 2021

reneweddaybyday said:

I already answered that. It would be an Allusion. Like when Jesus returned from Egypt Matthew quoted a text about Israel or Jewish People coming out of Egypt as a Parallel case. I understand it has been claimed that Jesus fulfilled around 300 prophecies. In Acts 1 Peter took a verse out of context when replacing Judas.

Psalm 69
Easy-to-Read Version
To the director: To the tune “The Lilies.” A song of David.
69 God, save me from all my troubles!
The rising water has reached my neck.
2 I have nothing to stand on.
I am sinking down, down into the mud.
I am in deep water,
and the waves are about to cover me.
3 I am getting weak from calling for help.
My throat is sore.
I have waited and looked for your help
until my eyes are hurting.
4 I have more enemies than the hairs on my head.
They hate me for no reason.
They try hard to destroy me.
My enemies tell lies about me.
They say I stole from them
and they demand that I pay for things I did not steal.
5 God, you know my faults.
I cannot hide my sins from you.
6 My Lord God All-Powerful, don’t let me embarrass your followers.
God of Israel, don’t let me bring disgrace to those who worship you.
7 My face is covered with shame.
I carry this shame for you.
8 My own brothers treat me like a stranger.
They act as if I came from a foreign land.
9 My strong devotion to your Temple is destroying me.
Those who insult you are also insulting me.
10 When I spend time crying and fasting,
they make fun of me.
11 When I wear sackcloth to show my sorrow,
they tell jokes about me.
12 They talk about me in public places.
The beer drinkers make up songs about me.
13 As for me, Lord, this is my prayer to you:
Please accept me!
God, I want you to answer me with love.
I know I can trust you to save me.
14 Pull me from the mud,
and don’t let me sink down deeper.
Save me from those who hate me.
Save me from this deep water.
15 Don’t let the waves drown me.
Don’t let the deep sea swallow me
or the grave close its mouth on me.
16 Answer me, Lord, from the goodness of your faithful love.
Out of your great kindness turn to me and help me!
17 Don’t turn away from your servant.
I am in trouble, so hurry and help me!
18 Come save my soul.
Rescue me from my enemies.
19 You know the shame I have suffered.
You know all my enemies.
You saw how they humiliated me.
20 I feel the pain of their insults.
The shame makes me feel like dying!
I wanted some sympathy,
but there was none.
I waited for someone to comfort me,
but no one came.
21 They gave me poison, not food.
They gave me vinegar, not wine.
22 Their tables are covered with food.
Let their fellowship meals destroy them.
23 Let them go blind and their backs become weak.
24 Show them how angry you are.
Let them feel what your anger can do.
25 Make their homes empty.
Don’t let anyone live there.
26 They try to hurt people you have already punished.
They tell everyone about the suffering you gave them.
27 Punish them for the bad things they have done.
Don’t show them how good you can be.
28 Erase their names from the book of life.
Don’t let their names appear on the list of those who do what is right.
29 I am sad and hurting.
God, lift me up and save me!
30 I will praise God’s name in song.
I will honor him by giving him thanks.
31 The Lord will be happier with this
than with the offering of an ox or a full-grown bull as a sacrifice.
32 Poor people, you came to worship God.
You will be happy to know these things.
33 The Lord listens to poor, helpless people.
He does not turn away from those who are in prison.
34 Praise him, heaven and earth!
Sea and everything in it, praise him!
35 God will save Zion.
He will rebuild the cities of Judah.
The people will settle there again and own the land.
36 The descendants of his servants will get that land.
Those who love his name will live there.

TheLearner · Jul 17, 2021

Psalm 109

Easy-to-Read Version

To the director: A praise song of David.
109 God, I praise you!
Hear my prayer and do something!
2 Wicked people are telling lies about me.
They are saying things that are not true.
3 They are saying hateful things about me.
They are attacking me for no reason.
4 I loved them, but they were against me.
So I said a prayer.
5 I did good things to them,
but they are doing bad things to me.
I loved them,
but they hated me.
6 They said, “Choose someone evil to represent him.
Let the one at his side really be his accuser.
7 Let even his prayer be used as evidence against him,
and let the court find him guilty.
8 Let his life be cut short,
and let someone else take over his work.
9 Let his children become orphans and his wife a widow.
10 Make his children wander around as beggars,
forced from homes that lie in ruins.
11 Let the people he owes take everything he owns.
Let strangers get everything he worked for.
12 Let no one be kind to him.
Let no one show mercy to his children.
13 May his family come to an end.
May his name be unknown to future generations.
14 May the Lord remember the sins of his father,
and may his mother’s sins never be erased.
15 May the Lord remember their sins forever,
and may he cause people to forget his family completely.
16 He never did anything good.
He never loved anyone.
He made life hard for the poor and the helpless.
17 He loved to curse others,
so let those bad things happen to him.
He never blessed others,
so don’t let good things happen to him.
18 Cursing was a daily part of his life,
like the clothes he wears.
Cursing others became a part of him,
like the water he drinks and the oil he puts on his body.
19 So let curses cover him like the robe he wears
and always surround him like a belt.”
20 My enemies said these evil things against me.
But may those curses be the way the Lord punishes them.
21 My Lord God, treat me in a way that brings honor to your name.
Save me because of your faithful love.
22 I am only a poor, helpless man.
I am so sad; my heart is broken.
23 I feel my life is over, fading like a shadow at day’s end.
I feel like a bug that someone brushed away.
24 My knees are weak from fasting.
I have lost weight and become thin.
25 My enemies insult me.
They look at me and shake their heads.
26 Lord my God, help me!
Show your faithful love and save me!
27 Then they will know that you did it.
They will know that it was your power, Lord, that helped me.
28 They curse me, but you can bless me.
They attacked me, so defeat them.
Then I, your servant, will be happy.
29 Humiliate my enemies!
Let them wear their shame like a coat.
30 I give thanks to the Lord.
I praise him in front of everyone.
31 He stands by the helpless
and saves them from those who try to put them to death.

TheLearner · Jul 17, 2021

Acts 1

Easy-to-Read Version

Luke Writes Another Book
1 Dear Theophilus,
The first book I wrote was about everything Jesus did and taught from the beginning 2 until the day he was carried up into heaven. Before he went, he talked to the apostles he had chosen. With the help of the Holy Spirit, he told them what they should do. 3 This was after his death, but he showed them that he was alive, proving it to them in many ways. The apostles saw Jesus many times during the 40 days after he was raised from death. He spoke to them about God’s kingdom. 4 One time when Jesus was eating with them, he told them not to leave Jerusalem. He said, “Wait here until you receive what the Father promised to send. Remember, I told you about it before. 5 John baptized people with water, but in a few days you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.”
Jesus Is Carried Up Into Heaven
6 The apostles were all together. They asked Jesus, “Lord, is this the time for you to give the people of Israel their kingdom again?”
7 Jesus said to them, “The Father is the only one who has the authority to decide dates and times. They are not for you to know. 8 But the Holy Spirit will come on you and give you power. You will be my witnesses. You will tell people everywhere about me—in Jerusalem, in the rest of Judea, in Samaria, and in every part of the world.”
9 After Jesus said this, he was lifted up into the sky. While they were watching, he went into a cloud, and they could not see him. 10 They were staring into the sky where he had gone. Suddenly two men wearing white clothes were standing beside them. 11 They said, “Men from Galilee, why are you standing here looking into the sky? You saw Jesus carried away from you into heaven. He will come back in the same way you saw him go.”
A New Apostle Is Chosen
12 Then the apostles went back to Jerusalem from the Mount of Olives. This mountain is about a half mile[a] from Jerusalem. 13 When they entered the city, they went to the upstairs room where they were staying. These are the ones who were there: Peter, John, James, Andrew, Philip, Thomas, Bartholomew, Matthew, James (the son of Alphaeus), Simon, the Zealot, and Judas (the son of James).
14 The apostles were all together. They were constantly praying with the same purpose. Some women, Mary the mother of Jesus, and his brothers were there with the apostles.
15 After a few days there was a meeting of the believers. There were about 120 of them. Peter stood up and said, 16-17 “Brothers and sisters, in the Scriptures the Holy Spirit said through David that something must happen. He was talking about Judas, one of our own group. Judas served together with us. The Spirit said that Judas would lead men to arrest Jesus.”
18 (Judas was paid money for doing this. His money was used to buy him a field. But he fell on his head, his body broke open, and all his intestines poured out. 19 And all the people of Jerusalem learned about this. That is why they named that field Akeldama, which in their language means “field of blood.”)
20 Peter said, “In the book of Psalms, this is written about Judas:
‘People should not go near his land;
no one should live there.’
And it is also written:
‘Let another man have his work.’
21-22 “So now another man must join us and be a witness of Jesus’ resurrection. He must be one of those men who were part of our group during all the time the Lord Jesus was with us. He must have been with us from the time John was baptizing people until the day when Jesus was carried up from us into heaven.”
23 They put two men before the group. One was Joseph Barsabbas. He was also called Justus. The other man was Matthias. 24-25 They prayed, “Lord, you know the minds of all people. Show us which one of these two men you choose to do this work. Judas turned away from it and went where he belongs. Lord, show us which man should take his place as an apostle!” 26 Then they used lots to choose one of the two men. The lots showed that Matthias was the one the Lord wanted. So he became an apostle with the other eleven.

TheLearner · Jul 17, 2021

"
"Acts 1:20 For it is written in the book of Psalms, Let his habitation be desolate, and let no man dwell therein: and his bishoprick let another take.”

Now we look at the two verses in Psalms that Peter quoted in verse 20 above:

Circa 1000 years before Christ, David wrote in Psalm 69:25: “Let their habitation be desolate; and let none dwell in their tents.” (Acts 1:20a: “For it is written in the book of Psalms, Let his habitation be desolate, and let no man dwell therein.”)
Circa 1000 years before Christ, David wrote in Psalm 109:8: “Let his days be few; and let another take his office.” (Acts 1:20b: “For it is written in the book of Psalms, … and his bishoprick let another take.”)

A Jew living in the centuries before Jesus Christ came in the flesh, would have never had the understanding that Psalm 69:25 and Psalm 109:8 were talking about a friend of Jesus betraying Him. Yet, it seems strange that Peter would take these two verses and apply them to Judas Iscariot.

"

I credit the misquotes as simply poor memory.

reneweddaybyday · Jul 17, 2021

TheLearner said:

so when Scripture says that it might be fulfilled [Greek plēroō = to bring to pass, ratify, accomplish] which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet ... it's really just allusion???

I think I'll stick with Scripture.

Good evening to you ...

TheLearner · Jul 17, 2021

The odds of Jesus fulfilling 10 prophecies is about one out of 3,628,800 which is great.

TheLearner · Jul 17, 2021

reneweddaybyday said:

The text that was quoted fulfilled is completed. The text quoted from luke does not even support dual fulfillment.

I believe in the believe in a virgin conception only because Matthew says it was. No need for it to be a fulfillment of prophecy.

Isaiah 7
14 But the Lord will still show you this sign:

The young woman is pregnant[h]
and will give birth to a son.
She will name him Immanuel.[i]
15 He will eat milk curds and honey[j]
as he learns to choose good and refuse evil.
16 But before he is old enough to make that choice,
the land of the two kings you fear will be empty.

Jesus did not fulfill the third part of this prophecy that was fulfilled within the lifetime of Ahaz. Thus using the text by Matthew can be an allusion.

This event reminds me when.....

As I pointed out before, the concept of virgin comes from the LXX. If Matthew wrote his Gospel in Hebrew first he would have been quoting from the Hebrew Scriptures, not from the LXX.

TheLearner · Jul 17, 2021

Please prove dual fulfillment of prophecy within the Hebrew Scriptures alone.

reneweddaybyday · Jul 17, 2021

TheLearner said:

In Luke 4, we read a record about Jesus teaching in the synagogue.

He taught from the scroll of Isaiah:

Luke 4:

17 And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written,

18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,

19 To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.

20 And he closed the book, and he gave it again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him.

21 And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears.

If we go to Isaiah, we find that the Lord Jesus Christ left out a part of what had been written in Isaiah:

Isaiah 61:

1 The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound;

2 To proclaim the acceptable year of the LORD, and the day of vengeance of our God

The bolded words in Isaiah 61:2 are words the Lord Jesus Christ did not speak when He taught in the synagogue.

Just because Jesus did not include the bolded words does not mean He did not fulfill that which He claimed was fulfilled ... nor does it mean that there is "allusion".

The Lord Jesus Christ told the people This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears ... this day ... the day in which He was speaking.

And the word "fulfilled" is translated from the Greek word plēroō = to bring to pass, ratify, accomplish.

In this instance, as well as the instance in Matt 1:22-23, God specifically tells us when prophecy written in OT was fulfilled.

ewq1938 · Jul 17, 2021

TheLearner said:

It wasn't the AoD. We are still waiting for it.

ewq1938 · Jul 17, 2021

TheLearner said:

Charging an author of scripture with error? That's how you justify Preterism?

Peter did not take anything out of context. The Holy Spirit guided him without error.

Magenta · Jul 17, 2021

TheLearner said:

Which verse? Also, Jesus instructed them to wait. He did not instruct them to choose another.

Jesus chose Paul.

Justified · Jul 18, 2021

On another site we had to deal with a person just like you "TheLearner". He would not see the truth of scripture that was right in front of him. He, like you, wanted to deal only with the OT as if it was the gold standard. Like you he thought the Hebrew scriptures were the only truth and yet he, like you, could not see the truth about Christ Jesus that was contained in the OT.

After we had dealt with him for quite a while we all just decided that it was a fruitless exercise to continue the discussion. I have taken the time to read through most of your posts here and to be charitable, many are not very logical.

If you are in fact a Christian I would strongly suggest that you spend more time in the NT than the OT. Get to know Christ Jesus and ask the Holy Spirit to lead you into a proper understanding of scripture. In this way you will be able to see all the prophecies about Christ Jesus that are contained in the OT that were fulfilled in the NT.

Know Jesus know salvation, no Jesus no salvation.

ewq1938 · Jul 18, 2021

Justified said:

Mat 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
Mat 7:16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
Mat 7:17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
Mat 7:18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
Mat 7:19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
Mat 7:20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

TheLearner · Jul 18, 2021

reneweddaybyday said:

The word also has the meaning of completed.

https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/1602277.htm
https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/02101.htm
https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/250103.htm
https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0103530.htm
https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0504.htm
https://jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/353-abomination-of-desolation#sts=JewishEncyclopedia.com

Represents viewpoints held by the authors.

Why are we christians in the habit of misapplying this text?

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