Why are we christians in the habit of misapplying this text?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
CS1

CS1

Well-known member
#102
May 23, 2012
13,112
4,374
113
#102
ForestGreenCook said:
A person cannot believe in the things of the Spirit unless they have already been born again with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, 1 Cor 2:14. John 3:15, "whosoever believeth" (present tense, born again). John 3:16, The "world" in reference is "the world of believers"

I believe that you have a misconception of how a person is born again. The natural man, as described in 1 Cor 2:14, has no ability to believe in, or accept, the things of the Spirit at the time that God quickenes him to be born again, and puts the Holy Spirit within him Eph 2:1 and 5. God gets all of the credit for your new birth. Mankind gets no credit for being born again. That is why it is said to be by the grace of God.
Click to expand...
you are entitled to your opinion. and you have the right to be wrong :) Good day.
 
CS1

CS1

Well-known member
#104
May 23, 2012
13,112
4,374
113
#104
TheLearner said:
And what if both of you and me are wrong?
Click to expand...
That is your issue I am not trying to prove you wrong nor am I needing to prove I am right.

The context of Salvation for eternal life is in Christ Biblically. I know in whom I believe. saved by grace through faith not of works lest any man should boast. Roman chapter 10: 9-10 says if we confess Jesu Christ as Lord and believe in our heart God raised Him from the dead we shall be saved.

Peter said Beleive in the Lord Jesus Christ and be saved received the gift of the Holy Spirit. I stand on that

If you don't AGREE OR BELIEVE THAT IS YOU. it is not my job to make you see it "my way " you and your issue is yours alone not mine:).
 
soberxp

soberxp

Senior Member
#105
May 3, 2018
2,511
482
83
#105
Why are we christians in the habit of misapplying this text?
Maybe they didn't develop the ability to take a global view of bible.
 
J

Justified

Active member
#107
Jul 13, 2021
194
74
28
#107
ForestGreenCook said:
A person cannot believe in the things of the Spirit unless they have already been born again with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, 1 Cor 2:14. John 3:15, "whosoever believeth" (present tense, born again). John 3:16, The "world" in reference is "the world of believers"

I believe that you have a misconception of how a person is born again. The natural man, as described in 1 Cor 2:14, has no ability to believe in, or accept, the things of the Spirit at the time that God quickenes him to be born again, and puts the Holy Spirit within him Eph 2:1 and 5. God gets all of the credit for your new birth. Mankind gets no credit for being born again. That is why it is said to be by the grace of God.
Click to expand...
ForestGreenCook said:
A person cannot believe in the things of the Spirit unless they have already been born again with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, 1 Cor 2:14. John 3:15, "whosoever believeth" (present tense, born again). John 3:16, The "world" in reference is "the world of believers"

I believe that you have a misconception of how a person is born again. The natural man, as described in 1 Cor 2:14, has no ability to believe in, or accept, the things of the Spirit at the time that God quickenes him to be born again, and puts the Holy Spirit within him Eph 2:1 and 5. God gets all of the credit for your new birth. Mankind gets no credit for being born again. That is why it is said to be by the grace of God.
Click to expand...

The context of 1Cor 2:14 is not regarding salvation, what we see here is Paul contrasting the wisdom of the natural man with the spirit lead believer. While the Holy Spirit can tell us about God this knowledge is not attainable by the wisdom or investigation of the natural man.



What you have to remember is that context matters. You should not jump to a conclusion based upon Eph 2:1 & Eph 2:5 without looking at Eph 1:13-14 we have to trust in the truth of the gospel before we are saved Rom_10:9-10. One of the most comforting passages in the Bible is found in Rom_10:13. Here we see a clear promise that ALL that call upon the lord will be saved. Note ALL, no one is excluded from the offer.


Calvinism's problem

The bible tells us Christ died to take away the sin of the world (Joh_1:29), and He came to call sinners to repentance (Luk_5:32) and since all are sinners (Rom_3:23) and He died for all (2Co_5:14-15; 1Ti_2:6; 1Ti_4:10; 1Jn_2:2), and will draw all people to Himself (Joh_12:32) and those that believe will be saved (Joh_3:16) and those that reject the gospel will be lost. (Joh_3:18) yet, Jesus, upon a Calvinistic presumption, died only for the unconditionally elect, then all people without qualification are unconditionally elected unto faith and final salvation. In this, then, Calvinism promotes Universalism.
 
J

Justified

Active member
#108
Jul 13, 2021
194
74
28
#108
CS1 said:
That is your issue I am not trying to prove you wrong nor am I needing to prove I am right.

The context of Salvation for eternal life is in Christ Biblically. I know in whom I believe. saved by grace through faith not of works lest any man should boast. Roman chapter 10: 9-10 says if we confess Jesu Christ as Lord and believe in our heart God raised Him from the dead we shall be saved.

Peter said Beleive in the Lord Jesus Christ and be saved received the gift of the Holy Spirit. I stand on that

If you don't AGREE OR BELIEVE THAT IS YOU. it is not my job to make you see it "my way " you and your issue is yours alone not mine:).
Click to expand...
I have had this same run around with Calvinists. Clear logic and scripture will not help them. You must understand that they are all programed to think the way they do. It is call divine meticulous determination. All we can do is pray for them that God will at some point open their eyes to the truth of scripture.
 
breno785au

breno785au

Senior Member
#109
Jul 23, 2013
6,002
767
113
39
Australia
#109
TheLearner said:
No one is rejecting him. Only pointing out a mis application of a text in context.

Ephesians 1:17
Easy-to-Read Version
17 I always pray to the great and glorious Father, the God of our Lord Jesus Christ. I pray that he will give you the Spirit, who will let you know truths about God and help you understand them, so that you will know him better.
Click to expand...
Why can't it be both? As Dino mentioned, if we read Jesus' words then the spirit can and does bring them to remembrance at the right time.
I think if anything us Christians have a bad habit of seeing things as purely black and white.
 
CS1

CS1

Well-known member
#110
May 23, 2012
13,112
4,374
113
#110
Justified said:
I have had this same run around with Calvinists. Clear logic and scripture will not help them. You must understand that they are all programed to think the way they do. It is call divine meticulous determination. All we can do is pray for them that God will at some point open their eyes to the truth of scripture.
Click to expand...
It's called truth.
 
T

TheLearner

Well-known member
#112
Jan 14, 2019
8,221
1,584
113
68
Brighton, MI
#112
breno785au said:
Why can't it be both? As Dino mentioned, if we read Jesus' words then the spirit can and does bring them to remembrance at the right time.
I think if anything us Christians have a bad habit of seeing things as purely black and white.
Click to expand...
Context matters when doing exegesis.
 
G

glen55

Active member
#114
Jul 10, 2021
168
26
28
69
#114
TheLearner said:
John 14:26
But the Comforter (Counselor, Helper, Intercessor, Advocate, Strengthener, Standby), the Holy Spirit, Whom the Father will send in My name [in My place, to represent Me and act on My behalf], He will teach you all things. And He will cause you to recall (will remind you of, bring to your remembrance) everything I have told you.


We were not back then to have Jesus us tell us anything in person. In context Jesus is speaking only to the apostles, not to us today.
Click to expand...
Secular history reading isn't going to understand allegory, time is not even happening in the Bible that repeats nothing new under the sun, we all came from Father which is in everyone, it doesn't judge when we do while in dark lite. I agree Christ doesn't come any more to great light because we no who we are and pray John 17:5 for self because we came down, lots of same beliefs happens every age.
 
R

reneweddaybyday

Senior Member
#115
Mar 23, 2016
7,021
1,674
113
#115
TheLearner said:
Logically if there was not double fulfillment in the OT, then claiming it happened in the NT is just wishful thinking.
Click to expand...
nope. It is not "wishful thinking" when Scripture tells us:

Luke 24:44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.


Inasmuch as the Lord Jesus Christ is the subject of all of Scripture, it is clear there were things written in OT which relate specifically to the Lord Jesus Christ. It is our joy and privilege to seek out those nuggets of truth concerning the Lord Jesus Christ. :cool:




TheLearner said:
So, at least try to meet the challenge.
Click to expand...
No thank you.



 
T

TheLearner

Well-known member
#116
Jan 14, 2019
8,221
1,584
113
68
Brighton, MI
#116
glen55 said:
Secular history reading isn't going to understand allegory, time is not even happening in the Bible that repeats nothing new under the sun, we all came from Father which is in everyone, it doesn't judge when we do while in dark lite. I agree Christ doesn't come any more to great light because we no who we are and pray John 17:5 for self because we came down, lots of same beliefs happens every age.
Click to expand...
The history I post is first hand account which describes that the AOD happened.
 
ewq1938

ewq1938

Well-known member
#117
Oct 18, 2018
5,074
1,278
113
#117
TheLearner said:
The history I post is first hand account which describes that the AOD happened.
Click to expand...

The AoD hasn't happened yet. When it happens, the antichrist will have started the Great Tribulation and an image of the beast will come alive and people will receive a mark...the two prophets will eventually die and then resurrect. None of that has happened yet.
 
T

TheLearner

Well-known member
#118
Jan 14, 2019
8,221
1,584
113
68
Brighton, MI
#118
reneweddaybyday said:
nope. It is not "wishful thinking" when Scripture tells us:

Luke 24:44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.


Inasmuch as the Lord Jesus Christ is the subject of all of Scripture, it is clear there were things written in OT which relate specifically to the Lord Jesus Christ. It is our joy and privilege to seek out those nuggets of truth concerning the Lord Jesus Christ. :cool:





No thank you.
Click to expand...
Luke 24:44
Easy-to-Read Version
44 Jesus said to them, “Remember when I was with you before? I said that everything written about me must happen—everything written in the Law of Moses, the books of the prophets, and the Psalms.”

My Hebrew NT simply says completed. There is no indication of a text of Prophecy having a double fulfillment.

Since you are unable to find "double fulfillment" of prophecy in the Hebrew Scriptures. It is not a Jewish way of reading the Scriptures.
 
T

TheLearner

Well-known member
#119
Jan 14, 2019
8,221
1,584
113
68
Brighton, MI
#119
ewq1938 said:
The AoD hasn't happened yet. When it happens, the antichrist will have started the Great Tribulation and an image of the beast will come alive and people will receive a mark...the two prophets will eventually die and then resurrect. None of that has happened yet.
Click to expand...
Read the historical account I posted, it did in fact happen. It is a first hand report.
 
ewq1938

ewq1938

Well-known member
#120
Oct 18, 2018
5,074
1,278
113
#120
TheLearner said:
Read the historical account I posted, it did in fact happen. It is a first hand report.
Click to expand...

No, it did not happen. After the AoD happens, there is only 42 months in which all the things found in Revelation 11 and 13 happen and there has not been a public resurrection of two prophets killed by the beast etc.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.