Why Daniel's 70th week must be in the future

[TheDivineWatermark]

And the anointing is the anointing of Jesus as King - as Christ.

How do you know that the Jesus is not the "Man" in Lev27:28 that is "set[ting] apart" [or, has 'set apart'] something or someone/s or some place ELSE (besides Himself) as "qodes qadasim [H6944 H6944] " (to the LORD)... and doing/does the "anoint" thing (at a different time from when He Himself was "anointed" according to your view)?? [Dan9:24]

Just askin'...





[I'm thinking of verses like Acts 17:31 - "31 because He has set [/fixed / established] a day in which He will judge [a]the world in righteousness [b]through [/in / en] a Man whom He has appointed, having furnished proof to all people [c]by raising Him from the dead.” (note: not "a singular 24-hr day," mind you)]

 

[Dino246]

They were not?

so the documentary of the german leader who ordered this and did not know his own son had crossed the fence to be with his jewish friend and was killed alive in the oven is just hearsay?

In the context that the comment was made, there was clear implication that this method was standard, which it was not.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

And the anointing is the anointing of Jesus as King - as Christ.

Refresh my memory as to your view (I think I may be getting your viewpoint mixed up with another poster, or two )... when are you saying this "anointing of Jesus" occurred?

 

[AandW]

I believed we are currently living through verse 29. I believe it's being fulfilled now.

- A few years ago (I think 2014-2015??) we had the tetrad of blood moons

- Solar eclipses galore across nations (we recently had one in 2017 in USA...another one due in 2024)

- Meteors (which are falling stars) have been falling, recorded on numerous videos on YouTube.

- Earthquakes and tsunamis ("seas and waves roaring")

- Ice caps melting and more severe weather on record than it has ever been ("seas and waves roaring")

- Days seem to be passing faster (scientists say the earth's axis shifted significantly after a few major earthquakes)

- 2019 was known as the year the earth burned as we had spontaneous fires across the world

- Sea life had been dying for a good decade...flocks of Birds just falling out of the sky

- Locust and insect life swarming in unusual migration patterns

- Saudi Arabian deserts blooming green with life (fulfillment of a bible verse that currently escapes me)

- Fresh water is pumping into the dead sea from below (fulfillment of a bible verse that currently escapes me)

- Tribulation of nations: explosion of cancers and diseases, etc.

Secular folks are freaking out because they know this isn't normal. I believe the very next event to happen is the appearance of the Messiah, verse 30. But when? Well that's up the the Almighty.

That indeed is compelling evidence!
It also fits other Verses from Matthew 24 pertaining towards signs we would notice from the side of Nature.
I am almost convinced that 70 A.D. could have been the kick off to Great Tribulation when we consider the past 2,000 years and even more so the past 75 years in military advancement through technology and other disasters and famines and locust appearances and many many more examples.

But none of this or what you've added explains what Paul emphasized as the Man of Sin sitting on God's Throne proclaiming he was God himself [Daniel and Christ had him standing in the Temple]. I choose not to believe in Nero since Nero physically was [not] presence for the 70 A.D. Event. So that leaves that to still happen. As does the Mark of the Beast or be beheaded. Where does this fall at in line with your idealism?

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

To me if the temple is the body, how can we see the abomination of desolation standing on the Holy Place, as Jesus said woudl be seen, that would be impossible

Plus, I do not believe Paul ever used "the definite article ['the']" when referencing US [believers] as "temple"





[yet, the definite article ('the') IS used in both 2Th2:4 and Rev11:1 "the temple of God" (both of these verses being eschatological references/contexts, as i see it)]

 

[eternally-gratefull]

In the context that the comment was made, there was clear implication that this method was standard, which it was not.

Well I would say either was questionable

you can’t prove either way

 

[TheLearner]

It is well known and clear that the text was about the coming of Christ, followed by the events of 70 AD.

The Sacrifices ceased with the destruction of the Temple.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Sure. My apologies.
I thought the Hebrew would generate a bit of interest.
Daniel 9 - 24: 'anoint the Holy of Holies'

1 kings 6; 16 16 He built twenty cubits on the rear part of the house with boards of cedar from the floor to the [a]ceiling; he built them for it on the inside as an inner sanctuary, even as the most holy place.

this is how david, who understood the written word in Hs day, would have interpreted that verse. Same words

to anoint the most holy place is to anoint the place in the sanctuary ie, the most holy place. The place that Daniel writes will be made desolate when an abomination is placed inside it rendering it unclean

when it is cleaned of this abomination, it will be anointed as the true holy place the temple where Jesus himself will rule

one thing of interpretation. We interpret it as those who wrote or origional read it would have interpreted, that’s keeps us from adding our own interpretation and getting it wrong

 

[eternally-gratefull]

It is well known and clear that the text was about the coming of Christ, followed by the events of 70 AD.

The Sacrifices ceased with the destruction of the Temple.

The text says the sacrifice and burnt offering is stopped because an abomination of desolation is done. That never happened in 70 ad, and the text is not about the comming messiah, it’s about Israel,Jerusalem and the temple

 

[Nehemiah6]

It is well known and clear that the text was about the coming of Christ, followed by the events of 70 AD.

Definitely not. The text speaks of the crucifixion of Christ and the coming of the Antichrist.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

1 kings 6; 16 16 He built twenty cubits on the rear part of the house with boards of cedar from the floor to the [a]ceiling; he built them for it on the inside as an inner sanctuary, even as the most holy place.

this is how david, who understood the written word in Hs day, would have interpreted that verse. Same words

Nice point.


I looked up on Bible Gateway and the only verse I see with the words "anoint" and "most holy" (together [besides Dan9:24]) is verse 10 of the following passage:

Exodus 40:10 -

9 And thou shalt take the anointing oil, and anoint the tabernacle, and all that is therein, and shalt hallow it, and all the vessels thereof: and it shall be holy.

10 And thou shalt anoint the altar of the burnt offering, and all his vessels, and sanctify the altar: and it shall be an altar most holy.

11 And thou shalt anoint the laver and his foot, and sanctify it.

12 And thou shalt bring Aaron and his sons unto the door of the tabernacle of the congregation, and wash them with water.

13 And thou shalt put upon Aaron the holy garments, and anoint him, and sanctify him; that he may minister unto me in the priest's office.

14 And thou shalt bring his sons, and clothe them with coats:

15 And thou shalt anoint them, as thou didst anoint their father, that they may minister unto me in the priest's office: for their anointing shall surely be an everlasting priesthood throughout their generations.



https://biblehub.com/text/exodus/40-10.htm

 

[Nehemiah6]

10 And thou shalt anoint the altar of the burnt offering, and all his vessels, and sanctify the altar: and it shall be an altar most holy.

We need to connect Daniel 9:24 to the prophecy of Ezekiel: So he measured the length thereof, twenty cubits; and the breadth, twenty cubits, before the temple: and he said unto me, This is the most holy place. (Ezek 41:4)

The prophecy of Ezekiel has seven chapters devoted to a description of the future eternal temple in Jerusalem. This is also for the time when everlasting righteousness will be established on earth. And that is when the prophecy of the 70 weeks of Daniel will be fulfilled: So the Spirit took me up, and brought me into the inner court; and, behold, the glory of the LORD filled the house. (Ezek 43:5)

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

^ Noted!

Definitely not. The text speaks of the crucifixion of Christ and the coming of the Antichrist.

Right. And with the events surrounding 70ad being in between these two items (for the Dan9:24-27 prophecy is written out SEQUENTIALLY).




[corresponding with all other passages of scripture on this Subject, in the SAME WAY]

 

[Yahshua]

That indeed is compelling evidence!
It also fits other Verses from Matthew 24 pertaining towards signs we would notice from the side of Nature.
I am almost convinced that 70 A.D. could have been the kick off to Great Tribulation when we consider the past 2,000 years and even more so the past 75 years in military advancement through technology and other disasters and famines and locust appearances and many many more examples.

But none of this or what you've added explains what Paul emphasized as the Man of Sin sitting on God's Throne proclaiming he was God himself [Daniel and Christ had him standing in the Temple]. I choose not to believe in Nero since Nero physically was [not] presence for the 70 A.D. Event. So that leaves that to still happen. As does the Mark of the Beast or be beheaded. Where does this fall at in line with your idealism?

As far as beheadings; recall earlier in Matthew 24 that the Messiah warned His disciples that they would be captured and killed for their testimony. I strongly feel that was the 5th seal event was fulfilled with the death of Messiah's disciples between 34 AD and 64 AD. Revelation chapters 6-7 even shows as much; that the martyrs die before the great tribulation begins.

-----

From my studies, The man of sin is the self-proclaimed head of the universal church. The Papacy. Remember that the mystery of iniquity was already at work in Paul's day. We have letters from disciples warning the reader to earnestly contend for the original faith. Historically, the bishop of Rome grew in power over all of bishoprics as the faith spread.

Also remember that the soldiers who destroy Jerusalem and the temple in 70AD are from Rome. They're literally "the people of the prince who shall come"...so the means that "prince" must come from Rome also. The Pope is the bishop of Rome.

The Papacy:
- Received power from The Pagan Roman Empire ("dragon gave him his power")

- Came to power roughly 538 AD and ruled for 1260 years until 1798 AD when it was ended...and then was later resurrected in 1929 AD

- Changed the sabbath, instituted our calendar (times & laws)

- Changed the 10 commandments by removing the 2nd one and splitting the 10th one into two separate ones (times & laws)

- Was known as the "vicar of Christ" ("Christ vicariously") and "God in the flesh" (names of blasphemy); said in publications that he stands in the position of "God on earth"

- Installed many kings during middle ages who worshiped him...whose subjects also worshiped him.

- Life a life of celibacy ("Has no desire for women")

- Initiated Papal bulls (like "dom diversas") authorizing the capture & slavery of heretics, which precipitate the worldwide slavery of humans ("he that leads into captivity shall go into captivity"). Laity even killed and enslaved "thinking they were doing God's work" (John 16:2), literally prophesied by Messiah.

- Initiated the inquisitions that tortured Jews and protestant gentiles as "heretics" alike

- Initiate the counter-reformation to divert protestant attention away from identifying Papacy as the Beast of Revelation

- Renamed Fortress goddess Cybele, Queen of Heaven, into "Mary" and worship Mary over Messiah ("worship the god of fortresses")

- Initiated the long Crusades to recapture holy land from Muslims ("desolations determined")

- Wiped out The Heruli, the Vandals, and Ostrogoths barbarians ("three horns plucked up by the roots")

- Outlawed any possession of the bible; said only the Church authority can interpret scripture

- The Church is called the "Mother" church birthing daughter churches and religions

- The cardinals wear Scarlet and Purple ("purple and scarlet colored beast")


After the Messiah resurrected the temple is the body of the believer and the throne is the heart of man. The "Man of Sin" sat in God's Temple for many, many centuries and is still in the hearts of many, worshiped as a celebrity wherever he visits.

His influence still lingers in certain Christian doctrines today.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

As far as beheadings; recall earlier in Matthew 24 that the Messiah warned His disciples that they would be captured and killed for their testimony. I strongly feel that was the 5th seal event was fulfilled with the death of Messiah's disciples between 34 AD and 64 AD. Revelation chapters 6-7 even shows as much; that the martyrs die before the great tribulation begins.

Two things I take issue with here ^ ...

--"the beginning of birth pangs" (Matt24:4-8 / Mk13:5-8 / AND DESCRIBED in Lk21:8-11) are parallel the SEALS of Rev6;

--if that is so, and since v.12 (Lk21) says, "BUT BEFORE ALL THESE [before all these beginning of birth pangs]" the next listed things must take place BEFORE those... then proceeds to list out the events surrounding 70ad in vv.12-24a... then the 70ad events COME BEFORE "the beginning of birth PANGS / SEALS" (including SEAL #5)... meaning, the 70ad events are PRIOR TO... (prior to [the SEALS; even] the 5th Seal martyrs, not the other way around!)

 

[TheLearner]

The text says the sacrifice and burnt offering is stopped because an abomination of desolation is done. That never happened in 70 ad, and the text is not about the comming messiah, it’s about Israel,Jerusalem and the temple

A temple to Jupiter was not AOD? or am I misunderstanding history?

"In fifteen places throughout his Jewish War Josephus accuses the Zealots of polluting the temple or of sacrilege. Within these fifteen cases, he blames them three times for being responsible for impurity in general. He calls the rebels “those who are polluting the Sanctu-ary” (War 2.423);4 He argues that the Zealots trampled the temple (War 4.262); and in his famous speech to the Zealots in book 5, he declares “this spot (namely, the temple) which you have polluted” (War 5.380).Josephus also accuses the Zealots of the ritual defilement of the temple. He says that on Passover, John of Gischala’s men, most of whom were ritually defiled (anagnoi), entered the temple hiding their swords (War 5.100). " https://brill.com/view/book/edcoll/9789004191679/Bej.9789004191266.i-438_019.xml

"So when you consider audience relevance, context, and the historical record it’s clear that the “abomination of desolation” occurred in A.D.70 when the pagan Roman Army entered Jerusalem and the Temple complex and showed reverence to their pagan deities. " http://www.scripturerevealed.com/prophecy/the-abomination-of-desolation/

***
"In Wars of the Jews (Book 6, Chapter 6, Verse 1) Josephus records: "And now the Romans, upon the flight of the seditious into the city, and upon the burning of the holy house itself, and of all the buildings round about it, brought their ensigns to the temple and set them over against its eastern gate; and there did they offer sacrifices to them". "
***** http://www.rogerswebsite.com/articles/TheAbominationofDesolationandthe70WeeksProphecy.pdf

"The Romans planted their eagles on the shapeless ruins, over against the eastern gate, offered their sacrifices to them, and proclaimed Titus Imperator with the greatest acclamations of joy. Thus was fulfilled the prophecy concerning the abomination of desolation standing in the holy place." (8) (Philip Schaff, vol. 1 pp. 397-398).

"
How the Romans carried their ensigns to the temple, and made joyful acclamations to Titus: the speech that Titus made to the Jews, when they made supplication for mercy. What reply they made thereto: and how that reply moved Titus’s indignation against them.

1. And now the Romans, upon the flight of the seditious into the city, and upon the burning of the holy house itself, and of all the buildings round about it, brought their ensigns to the temple, (18) and set them over-against its eastern gate. And there did they offer sacrifices to them: and there did they make Titus Imperator (19) with the greatest acclamations of joy. "
https://penelope.uchicago.edu/josephus/war-6.html

 

[eternally-gratefull]

A temple to Jupiter was not AOD? or am I misunderstanding history?

"In fifteen places throughout his Jewish War Josephus accuses the Zealots of polluting the temple or of sacrilege. Within these fifteen cases, he blames them three times for being responsible for impurity in general. He calls the rebels “those who are polluting the Sanctu-ary” (War 2.423);4 He argues that the Zealots trampled the temple (War 4.262); and in his famous speech to the Zealots in book 5, he declares “this spot (namely, the temple) which you have polluted” (War 5.380).Josephus also accuses the Zealots of the ritual defilement of the temple. He says that on Passover, John of Gischala’s men, most of whom were ritually defiled (anagnoi), entered the temple hiding their swords (War 5.100). " https://brill.com/view/book/edcoll/9789004191679/Bej.9789004191266.i-438_019.xml

"So when you consider audience relevance, context, and the historical record it’s clear that the “abomination of desolation” occurred in A.D.70 when the pagan Roman Army entered Jerusalem and the Temple complex and showed reverence to their pagan deities. " http://www.scripturerevealed.com/prophecy/the-abomination-of-desolation/

***
"In Wars of the Jews (Book 6, Chapter 6, Verse 1) Josephus records: "And now the Romans, upon the flight of the seditious into the city, and upon the burning of the holy house itself, and of all the buildings round about it, brought their ensigns to the temple and set them over against its eastern gate; and there did they offer sacrifices to them". "
***** http://www.rogerswebsite.com/articles/TheAbominationofDesolationandthe70WeeksProphecy.pdf

"The Romans planted their eagles on the shapeless ruins, over against the eastern gate, offered their sacrifices to them, and proclaimed Titus Imperator with the greatest acclamations of joy. Thus was fulfilled the prophecy concerning the abomination of desolation standing in the holy place." (8) (Philip Schaff, vol. 1 pp. 397-398).

"
How the Romans carried their ensigns to the temple, and made joyful acclamations to Titus: the speech that Titus made to the Jews, when they made supplication for mercy. What reply they made thereto: and how that reply moved Titus’s indignation against them.

1. And now the Romans, upon the flight of the seditious into the city, and upon the burning of the holy house itself, and of all the buildings round about it, brought their ensigns to the temple, (18) and set them over-against its eastern gate. And there did they offer sacrifices to them: and there did they make Titus Imperator (19) with the greatest acclamations of joy. "
https://penelope.uchicago.edu/josephus/war-6.html

Yeah you. misunderstand

jesus said they would see it standing in the holy place

see what? An unclean thing (abomination) that makes desolate


no one saw anything in 70 ad

 

[cv5]

It is well known and clear that the text was about the coming of Christ, followed by the events of 70 AD.

The Sacrifices ceased with the destruction of the Temple.

As your name implies you have much to learn.....

 

[cv5]

Daniel 9:24-27 is written SEQUENTIALLY (so the "CUT OFF and have nothing [or, but not for himself]" [32ad] comes before the events surrounding 70ad ['shall destroy the city and the sanctuary'], and that comes before the "FOR ONE WEEK [7 yrs]" [yet future]... as all other prophetic scriptures on this Subject align / agree with this SEQUENCE)

Consider...

Parallel passages:

A. Matthew 24:29-31 -
"29 And immediately after the tribulation of those days:
‘The sun will be darkened,
and the moon will not give its light, [<--this is NOT "moon into BLOOD" 6th Seal]
and the stars will fall from the sky,
and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.’
30 And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes [5443 phylḗ (throughout Scripture [279x more or less] "tribe/tribes" is used only of Israel)] of the earth will mourn. And they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory. 31 And He will send His angels with a great trumpet call, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from the ends [plural] of the heavens [plural] to the ends thereof [plural]." [from the extremities, WHERE SCATTERED (Israel has been "scattered")]


A. Isaiah 27:9,12-13 -
"6 In the days to come, Jacob will take root.
Israel will bud and blossom
and fill the whole world with fruit.
7 Has the LORD struck Israel as He struck her oppressors?
Was she killed like those who slayed her?
8 By warfare and exile You contended with her
and removed her with a fierce wind,
as on the day the east wind blows.
9 Therefore Jacob’s guilt will be atoned for,
and the full fruit of the removal of his sin will be this: [See Rom11:27 and Dan9:24b, below]
When he makes all the altar stones
like crushed bits of chalk,
no Asherah poles or incense altars
will remain standing.
[...]
12 In that day the LORD will thresh from the flowing Euphrates to the Wadi of Egypt, and you, O Israelites, will be gathered one by one. 13 And in that day a great ram’s horn [/trumpet] will sound, and those who were perishing in Assyria will come forth with those who were exiles in Egypt. And they will worship the LORD on the holy mountain in Jerusalem."


A. Romans 11:27 -
"25 For I do not want you to be ignorant, brothers, of this mystery, so that you may not be wise in yourselves: A hardening in part has happened to Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles may [/be] come in [G1525]. 26 And so all Israel will be saved, as it has been written:
“The One Delivering will come out of Zion,
He will remove ungodliness from Jacob.
27 And this is the covenant from Me to them,
when I shall take away their sins.” [See Isaiah 27, quoted above]
28 For as regards the gospel, they are enemies on account of you; but as regards election, beloved on account of the patriarchs. 29 For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.


A. Daniel 9:24 -
Berean Study Bible -
"Seventy weeks are decreed for your people and your holy city to stop their transgression, to put an end to sin, to make atonement for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy, and to anoint the Most Holy Place."
[or]
King James Bible-
"Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy."


A. Hosea 5:14-6:3 -
14 For I am like a lion to Ephraim
and like a young lion to the house of Judah.
I, even I, will tear them to pieces
and then go away.
I will carry them off
where no one can rescue them. [see Luke 21:24a "and they shall be led away captive into all the nations"]
15 Then I will return to My place [i.e. in 32ad]
until they admit their guilt and seek My face;
in their affliction they will earnestly seek Me.”
6:1 Come, let us [Israel] return to the LORD.
For He has torn us [Israel] to pieces,
but He will heal us [Israel];
He has wounded us [Israel],
but He will bind up our [Israel's] wounds.
2 After two days He will revive us [Israel];
on/IN the third day He will raise us [Israel] up,
that we [Israel] may live in His presence. [See Isaiah 27:12-13, quoted above; See also Isaiah 24:21-23, esp v.23 (where in this passage, the FIRST of the TWO "PUNISH" words of this passage corresponds with Rev19:19,21/16:14-16/20:5--at the Armageddon time-slot, i.e. His Second Coming to the earth)]
3 So let us [Israel] know—
let us [Israel] press on to know the LORD.
As surely as the sun rises, [the "SUN of righteousness ARISE" aspect OF the "DOTL" time period (whereas the "IN THE NIGHT / DARK / DARKNESS" is the "7-yr TRIB" aspect OF it, immediately PRECEDING and LEADING UP TO this point)])
He will appear;
He will come to us [Israel] like the rain,
like the spring showers that water the earth [/like the former/early/spring rains unto the earth]."



[there's much more...]


Acts 3:21 - "whom indeed it behooves heaven to receive until the times of restoration OF ALL THINGS OF WHICH GOD SPOKE BY/THROUGH [dia] the mouth of His holy prophets from the age."

I hear tell that there are "other views". I just haven't quite figured out why.....

 

[randyk]

They can if it relates to Israel only, and since as Jesus said, if they knew the time, and now it was hidden from them.. so there was a pause in the story until a later date. As was actually suggested in the prophecy itself

That makes no sense. Sorry. A 70 Week period is a *linear* 70 Week Period. Otherwise, it is 2 periods of 69 Weeks and 1 Week. Then, it would be a 69 Week period--not a 70 Week period.

I used to hold to a separation between the 69 Weeks and the 70th Week. I thought the 70th Week was reserved for the end of the age. Ultimately, I could not withstand the argument I'm now giving you.

And I also came to realize the Church Fathers saw it this way too. It convinced me that the 70th Week was fulfilled in the earthly ministry of Jesus, followed by the Roman Army's destruction of Jerusalem and the temple.

This is exactly what Jesus said in his Olivet Discourse. The Roman Army was described by him as an army encircling Jerusalem In his generation--see Luke 21.20. The Roman Army was the Abomination of Desolation.