Why Daniel's 70th week must be in the future

[Yahshua]

You believe that Matthew 24: 29-30 have not been fulfilled and still to happen?

I believe we're currently living through verse 29. Verse 30 hasn't happened yet.

https://christianchat.com/threads/why-daniels-70th-week-must-be-in-the-future.200137/post-4600017

 

[OldSage]

Interesting!
I will actually take this into consideration.
Many who conclude as you have went as far to claim we are now in the Mill Reign and all prophecy is complete.
But your Views are new and worth looking into

Good heavens no. Don't judge a book by its cover!

 

[AandW]

I believe we're currently living through verse 29. Verse 30 hasn't happened yet.

https://christianchat.com/threads/why-daniels-70th-week-must-be-in-the-future.200137/post-4600017

I am one that firmly believes in [partial preterism] in the fact that much prophecy has indeed been fulfilled, but not all prophecy has been fulfilled.

So, what is your guestimation or Event that will happen to end this Great Tribulation and fulfill Verse 29 so Verse 30 can take place?

 

[GaryA]

Let's see if I remember this correctly:


- 457 BC: Persian King Artaxerxes "commands" to rebuild Jerusalem; Ezra leads (Nehemiah 2:8-17; 4:17)

(49 yrs)

- 408 BC: Rebuilding continued after Ezra

(434 yrs)

- 28 AD: The Messiah is cut off within this next time-frame

(7 yrs)

- 35 AD: Steven stoned & Paul chosen in 34 AD; Gospel to the gentiles & hedge removed from Jews

-----

457 BC to 408 BC = 7 Sevens (49 yrs)

408 BC to 27 AD = 62 Sevens (434 yrs)

28++ AD = "After" 62 Sevens

28 AD to 35 AD = 1 Seven (7 yrs), everlasting covenant made

28 AD ((+)) 35 AD = "in the midst" of Seven (7 yrs), need for animal sacrifices ceased because of perfect sacrifice

Close, but not quite exactly...

Please see:

http://mywebsite.us/BibleStudy/Time_Line.html

Hope it helps.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Good heavens no. Don't judge a book by its cover!

Same goes for you...

... by your thinking that all "futurists" believe we humans have some kind of power that if we do this or that it will "hasten His return" (nope. His "timing" for such has already been spelled out, and is thus "set in stone," so to speak. )

Don't lump us all in with "dominionists / reconstructionists" who think they themselves have that kind of sway over things , or post-mills who think it is the church itself that [makes conditions so good, over a long period of time, that it] ushers in the kingdom [...themselves]... Nah. My advice: quit reading wacky theologies (and lumping us all into same... just as you've suggested above. )

 

[Yahshua]

I am one that firmly believes in [partial preterism] in the fact that much prophecy has indeed been fulfilled, but not all prophecy has been fulfilled.

So, what is your guestimation or Event that will happen to end this Great Tribulation and fulfill Verse 29 so Verse 30 can take place?

I believed we are currently living through verse 29. I believe it's being fulfilled now.

- A few years ago (I think 2014-2015??) we had the tetrad of blood moons

- Solar eclipses galore across nations (we recently had one in 2017 in USA...another one due in 2024)

- Meteors (which are falling stars) have been falling, recorded on numerous videos on YouTube.

- Earthquakes and tsunamis ("seas and waves roaring")

- Ice caps melting and more severe weather on record than it has ever been ("seas and waves roaring")

- Days seem to be passing faster (scientists say the earth's axis shifted significantly after a few major earthquakes)

- 2019 was known as the year the earth burned as we had spontaneous fires across the world

- Sea life had been dying for a good decade...flocks of Birds just falling out of the sky

- Locust and insect life swarming in unusual migration patterns

- Saudi Arabian deserts blooming green with life (fulfillment of a bible verse that currently escapes me)

- Fresh water is pumping into the dead sea from below (fulfillment of a bible verse that currently escapes me)

- Tribulation of nations: explosion of cancers and diseases, etc.

Secular folks are freaking out because they know this isn't normal. I believe the very next event to happen is the appearance of the Messiah, verse 30. But when? Well that's up the the Almighty.

 

[Yahshua]

Close, but not quite exactly...

Please see:

http://mywebsite.us/BibleStudy/Time_Line.html

Hope it helps.

Thanks Gary I'll check it out

 

[OldSage]

well it would have if we knew where it was. I have logos bible software with many many hebrew/greek resources..

Not sure what your asking, It did not happen in Jesus day, and it was destroyed in 70 ad.. so what were you asking again?

Okay. Well I think it is quite important to understand what 'anoint the Holy of Holies' means.
As we know from Hebrews, the earthly tabernacle was a representation of the true tabernacle in heaven.
The Holy of Holies is the actual throne room of God.
When Jesus was allowed to share his father's throne, God anointed him with oil.

8 But about the Son he says,
“Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever;
a scepter of justice will be the scepter of your kingdom.
9 You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness;
therefore God, your God, has set you above your companions
by anointing you with the oil of joy.”

So we know this happened when Jesus ascended (e.g. 33AD).

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I am enjoying this conversation and have already learned something new.

this is my favorite subject. It is nice to have a calm conversation, even if we end up disagreeing I thank you for that,

Now the question begins, when the New Testament teaches we are the temple and the temple was destroyed: Can a temple built by unsaved people today be considered HOLY?

one thing to remember, even though the temple in Jesus day was run by unsaved priests and Gods presence in the Holy Place was long since gone, and the very priests who ran it crucified Christ, Jesus still called it his fathers house,

we also have prophecy concerning a rebuilt temple, our conversation now is about a future abomination of desolation. If there is no Holy Place in a temple in Jerusalem, there is no place for the Abomination of Desolation Jesus spoke about. So yeah, I do believe they can make that holynplace and non believers, it is just this place will not have Gods presence as promised in the law concerning the temple.

I hope this makes sense,

And if someone believes it is talking about us as the temple, it is no problem finding out what an abomination could be, could be a repeat of the Judas thing, but the issue becomes the part that says sacrifices will cease, as within us, no sacrifices happen and no sacrifices happen in churches either (Unless you are catholic), these happen only in the temple. I believe that is the most natural reading of the text, but I struggle to see it as HOLY today.

To me if the temple is the body, how can we see the abomination of desolation standing on the Holy Place, as Jesus said woudl be seen, that would be impossible

jesus used it as a sign, when you see it do this, again, if it is the body, how can they see it, and how can they know when to run, and who should run?

I agree with you, if a temple is built today, the holy place would not be holy, at the same time, there would be sacrifice and offering, which never took away sin, and would be done in unbelief. And it would be no different that the high priest offering sacrifice in the Holy Place in the temple in Jesus day, remember even then he called it his fathers house

we are also told when Jesus returns, he will rule from that house also,

anyway, these things must be done for prophecy to be fulfilled, at least that’s the way I see it

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

@OldSage (re: your Post #288 ^ ) Another place that also uses this "qodes qadasim [H6944 H6944]" (like Dan9:24) is...

Leviticus 27:28 - "Notwithstanding no devoted thing, that a man shall devote [/sets apart] unto the LORD of all that he hath, both of man and beast, and of the field of his possession, shall be sold or redeemed: every devoted thing is most holy [H6944 H6944] unto the LORD."

 

[OldSage]

@OldSage (re: your Post #288 ^ ) Another place that also uses this "qodes qadasim [H6944 H6944]" (like Dan9:24) is...

Leviticus 27:28 - "Notwithstanding no devoted thing, that a man shall devote unto the LORD of all that he hath, both of man and beast, and of the field of his possession, shall be sold or redeemed: every devoted thing is most holy [H6499 H6499] unto the LORD."

hmmm......wow
So in fact Jesus is the Holy of Holies.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The Jews were not “baked alive in ovens” during WWII. Complaining about exaggeration and falsehood while spewing the same is rank hypocrisy.

They were not?

so the documentary of the german leader who ordered this and did not know his own son had crossed the fence to be with his jewish friend and was killed alive in the oven is just hearsay?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You're rushing past my argument. I said that everlasting righteousness can be defined in different ways, but that the *context* determines which definition to use. At least that was my implication.

Since the context requires a linear 70 Week period, "everlasting righteousness" must be defined by Christ's earthly ministry, completed at the cross. One cannot separate the 70th Week from the previous 69 Weeks and still call it a "70 Week period!"

They can if it relates to Israel only, and since as Jesus said, if they knew the time, and now it was hidden from them.. so there was a pause in the story until a later date. As was actually suggested in the prophecy itself

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Okay. Well I think it is quite important to understand what 'anoint the Holy of Holies' means.
As we know from Hebrews, the earthly tabernacle was a representation of the true tabernacle in heaven.
The Holy of Holies is the actual throne room of God.
When Jesus was allowed to share his father's throne, God anointed him with oil.

8 But about the Son he says,
“Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever;
a scepter of justice will be the scepter of your kingdom.
9 You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness;
therefore God, your God, has set you above your companions
by anointing you with the oil of joy.”

So we know this happened when Jesus ascended (e.g. 33AD).

Ok you have one

that does not mean all have been fulfilled

Israel is still in sin, their transgression continues to this day,

also. I disagree with you here also. The OT states Jesus will rule in davids temple. Heaven is not the temple of david, it is Gods throne. David’s house is here in Jerusalem.

so no. the most holy place in the temple has not been anointed, it was destroyed in 70 AD

but thank you anyway,

 

[OldSage]

Ok you have one

that does not mean all have been fulfilled

Israel is still in sin, their transgression continues to this day,

also. I disagree with you here also. The OT states Jesus will rule in davids temple. Heaven is not the temple of david, it is Gods throne. David’s house is here in Jerusalem.

so no. the most holy place in the temple has not been anointed, it was destroyed in 70 AD

but thank you anyway,

So you are denying that Jesus was anointed by God?

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

hmmm......wow
So in fact Jesus is the Holy of Holies.

"...every devoted thing is most holy [H6499 H6499] unto the LORD."

"... devoted thing, that a man shall devote [/set apart] unto the LORD of all that he hath, both of man and beast, and of the field of his possession..."

- Lev27:28

 

[OldSage]

"...every devoted thing is most holy [H6499 H6499] unto the LORD."

"... devoted thing, that a man shall devote [/set apart] unto the LORD of all that he hath, both of man and beast, and of the field of his possession..."

- Lev27:28

"...every devoted thing is most holy [H6499 H6499] unto the LORD."

"... devoted thing, that a man shall devote [/set apart] unto the LORD of all that he hath, both of man and beast, and of the field of his possession..."

- Lev27:28

I really thank you for this TDW, it is a most wonderful revelation that I'd never heard before.
Awesome is an overused word , but *awesome*

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

^ Cool.


And look at this... the word for "[of the field] of his possession [H272]" (in that verse):

[per BibleHub]

"[H272] possession
Feminine passive participle from 'achaz; something seized, i.e. A possession (especially of land) -- possession."

 

[eternally-gratefull]

So you are denying that Jesus was anointed by God?

Who said I denied that?

 

[OldSage]

^ Cool.


And look at this... the word for "[of the field] of his possession [H272]" (in that verse):

[per BibleHub]

"[H272] possession
Feminine passive participle from 'achaz; something seized, i.e. A possession (especially of land) -- possession."

^ ^
Can you explain please?

Going back to Daniel 9, the anointing of Jesus has already been described in a previous vision

Daniel 7:13 I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him.14 And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.

And the anointing is the anointing of Jesus as King - as Christ.