Why Daniel's 70th week must be in the future

[OldSage]

Right, e.g.

And let the reader recall that Luke 21:32 says,

"Truly I say to you that this generation will not have passed away UNTIL [G2193] ALL [G3956] shall have taken place [G1096]."...

... which necessarily must INCLUDE the two "of-lengthy-duration" items that verse 24 had already just mentioned:

"24 And they will fall by the edge of the sword, and will be led captive into all the nations;

and Jerusalem will be trodden down by the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled."

("until ALL shall have taken place" INCLUDES THESE TWO v.24 items!--So also Matt24:34 should be understood in this light.)

note: the phrase "the TIMES of the Gentiles" refers to "Gentile domination over Israel" (NOT something like "the Church age")... which STARTED in 606/5bc (think: Neb's "dream / statue / image" with Neb as "head of gold"); and we know that Rev17:8 says, "...[when they behold] the beast that was, and IS NOT [at the time when written], AND YET SHALL BE [FUTURE tense]"... The phrase "the TIMES of the Gentiles" STARTED in 606/5bc and will not BE CONCLUDED until Christ's Second Coming to the earth (Rev19:19,21/16:14-16/20:5 parallel the FIRST of TWO "PUNISH" words in Isaiah 24:21-22[23...note v.23]; and Dan2:34-35; and Dan7:20,21,22[/Rev20:4a],25,27 "the greatness of the kingdom UNDER the whole heaven..." [i.e. the earthly MK age / "the age [SINGULAR] to come"]; etc etc...)

I can see your logic, and obviously I think you're completely wrong.
The generation was the first century generation.

The disciples asked 'When?'
Jesus replied to the effect 'don't be deceived..it is in this generation'

If a generation somehow becomes forever his words, warnings, and timings become meaningless, and 'a generation'
itself becomes meaningless.

 

[OldSage]

The Antichrist is already here, as John stated n 1 John 4:3. The Antichrist and false prophet have been around and continue in their heresy. Revelation and Daniel (along with Ezekiel), make this obvious. I find it interesting - if John said it was already here - how could it be in the future?

I do totally agree Melinda.
John states that the spirit of antichrist is the rejection of Christ's resurrection...
i.e. Rabbinical Judaism

 

[GaryA]

LOL, I can't use Google... can't open it here....

这不一样，如果我的原文能被人看懂，这很好。
但是，如果翻译的不对劲，那就是两回事了。
It's different. If my original can be understood, it's good.
However, if there is something wrong with the translation, it is two different things.

Okay.

 

[GaryA]

which is part of the promises in the Covenant.

or, of the Covenant.

 

[Ahwatukee]

Am still hoping for an answer from the Daniel 'experts'

1) What does masah qodes qodes mean?

2) (To me it's abomination that I even have to ask this, but,)
Has it been fulfilled, or is part of the unfulfilled bit?

Hello OldSage,

In Matt.24:15 Jesus quoted Daniel 9:27. From that time until the destruction of the temple there was no fulfillment of a seven year covenant being made and therefore no abomination set up in the holy place within the temple. Therefore, the prophecy regarding that last seven years is still future and is the time period when God's wrath will be poured out via the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments and whatever plagues of wrath the the two witnesses bring.

After the sixty ninth seven, the Messiah was cut off. At that time the Lord paused the last seven years and began to build His church. Once the church has been completed, the Lord will appear and gather His church. Following that, God will pick up right where He left off in fulfillment of that last seven years of the decree, bringing the age to its end and establishing the millennial kingdom when the Lord returns to the earth.

 

[GaryA]

In Matt.24:15 Jesus quoted Daniel 9:27.

Nope. Sorry. No such thing.

The AoD is not even [specifically] mentioned in Daniel 9 - need to go to Daniel 11-12 for that...

 

[OldSage]

Hello OldSage,

In Matt.24:15 Jesus quoted Daniel 9:27. From that time until the destruction of the temple there was no fulfillment of a seven year covenant being made and therefore no abomination set up in the holy place within the temple. Therefore, the prophecy regarding that last seven years is still future and is the time period when God's wrath will be poured out via the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments and whatever plagues of wrath the the two witnesses bring.

After the sixty ninth seven, the Messiah was cut off. At that time the Lord paused the last seven years and began to build His church. Once the church has been completed, the Lord will appear and gather His church. Following that, God will pick up right where He left off in fulfillment of that last seven years of the decree, bringing the age to its end and establishing the millennial kingdom when the Lord returns to the earth.

Hello Ahwatukee,

So how do you understand masah qodesh qodesh?

 

[TMS]

Hello OldSage,

In Matt.24:15 Jesus quoted Daniel 9:27. From that time until the destruction of the temple there was no fulfillment of a seven year covenant being made and therefore no abomination set up in the holy place within the temple. Therefore, the prophecy regarding that last seven years is still future and is the time period when God's wrath will be poured out via the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments and whatever plagues of wrath the the two witnesses bring.

After the sixty ninth seven, the Messiah was cut off. At that time the Lord paused the last seven years and began to build His church. Once the church has been completed, the Lord will appear and gather His church. Following that, God will pick up right where He left off in fulfillment of that last seven years of the decree, bringing the age to its end and establishing the millennial kingdom when the Lord returns to the earth.

Jesus died in the middle of the 70th week. Dan 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease,

After 3 and a half years Jesus died on the cross and the sacrifices became void.

When Jesus died the sacrifices stopped but Israel still had 3 and a half years to get things right. The gospel continued via the disciples that Jesus taught.

The 70 weeks ended and Israel still didn't accept Jesus so the gospel was taken to the Gentiles to do what Israel failed to do.

The 70 weeks were given to Israel to do what was listed in verse 24 but they failed.

Work out when the time started... from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem (starting point.) unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: (Jesus would come on the 69th week).

 

[Yahshua]

It's a debate due to what Rome did to Jerusalem, they did to everyone of their enemies.

[...]

So how are the words of Yeshua, "the destruction would never be seen Before and After" account for 1099 if Daniel's Prophecy was about 70 A.D.? Both wars were in Jerusalem. Both wars had similar destruction. But, the war of 1099 produced nearly 40,000 more deaths.

Josephus' death toll assumptions were rejected as impossible by Seth Schwartz (1984), as according to his estimates at that time about a million people lived in Palestine, about half of whom were Jews, and sizable Jewish populations remained in the area after the war was over, even in the hard-hit region of Judea.[28]

^

Go figure, the Traitor Josephus LIED!
What a shocker!
I know I am caught blinded by it

The Messiah never said what you say in red. This is probably why you're going down the incorrect trail here with death tolls. Why don't we start with what the Messiah actually said.

The word is tribulation, not destruction.

 

[AandW]

The Messiah never said what you say in red. This is probably why you're going down the incorrect trail here with death tolls. Why don't we start with what the Messiah actually said.

The word is tribulation, not destruction.

lol schematics. The one proven thing about Josphus' Account of 70 A.D. is that it was OVER exaggerated just like the rest of his Account:

Josephus' death toll assumptions were rejected as impossible by Seth Schwartz (1984), as according to his estimates at that time about a million people lived in Palestine, about half of whom were Jews, and sizable Jewish populations remained in the area after the war was over, even in the hard-hit region of Judea.[28]


Did Josphus write the days were shortened for the Elect's Sake?

The fact that you bought into this baloney used by false prophets like Ken Gentry is priceless!

 

[OldSage]

lol schematics. The one proven thing about Josphus' Account of 70 A.D. is that it was OVER exaggerated just like the rest of his Account:

Josephus' death toll assumptions were rejected as impossible by Seth Schwartz (1984), as according to his estimates at that time about a million people lived in Palestine, about half of whom were Jews, and sizable Jewish populations remained in the area after the war was over, even in the hard-hit region of Judea.[28]


Did Josphus write the days were shortened for the Elect's Sake?

The fact that you bought into this baloney used by false prophets like Ken Gentry is priceless!

Human unhappiness and happiness is not actually quantifiable - those kinds of ideas stem from Economic pseudo-science.

Proverbs 14: 10 Each heart knows its own bitterness,
and no one else can share its joy.

If Jesus said the suffering was the greatest, then I believe him.

What I can say is that the Romans arguably perfected the art of torture with crucifixion,
which was the default sanction they imposed on even mildly rebellious subjects.
I am sure your time in the military had a lot of traumas, I have no doubt,
but we would do well to believe God - always - because without faith we can
only make God unhappy and distressed.

 

[Yahshua]

lol schematics

Semantics? And it's not even. They're two different concepts. What does Tribulation mean?

The one proven thing about Josphus' Account of 70 A.D. is that it was OVER exaggerated just like the rest of his Account:

Josephus' death toll assumptions were rejected as impossible by Seth Schwartz (1984), as according to his estimates at that time about a million people lived in Palestine, about half of whom were Jews, and sizable Jewish populations remained in the area after the war was over, even in the hard-hit region of Judea.[28]


Did Josphus write the days were shortened for the Elect's Sake?

Why are you on Josephus so much? You brought him up and are now obsessed with him.

The fact that you bought into this baloney used by false prophets like Ken Gentry is priceless!

....Where was he ever identified as a prophet?

 

[TMS]

Dan 8:14 And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.
Dan 8:15 And it came to pass, when I, even I Daniel, had seen the vision, and sought for the meaning, then, behold, there stood before me as the appearance of a man.

Daniel was given a vision and couldn't understand it. Notice the 2300 days. Then the Angel Gabriel came to help Daniel, but he still didn't get it. "make this man to understand the vision."

Dan 8:26 And the vision of the evening and the morning which was told is true: wherefore shut thou up the vision; for it shall be for many days.
Dan 8:27 And I Daniel fainted, and was sick certain days; afterward I rose up, and did the king's business; and I was astonished at the vision, but none understood it.

So Daniel is sick and can't understand it.... But then Gabriel comes back....

Dan 9:21 Yea, whiles I was speaking in prayer, even the man Gabriel, whom I had seen in the vision at the beginning, being caused to fly swiftly, touched me about the time of the evening oblation.
Dan 9:22 And he informed me, and talked with me, and said, O Daniel, I am now come forth to give thee skill and understanding.
Dan 9:23 At the beginning of thy supplications the commandment came forth, and I am come to shew thee; for thou art greatly beloved: therefore understand the matter, and consider the vision.

This needs to be connected to the 2300 day vision in chapter 8.

Dan 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city,

70 weeks out of the 2300 days were given to Israel to get things right.

Same starting point for both.

 

[OldSage]

Dan 8:14 And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.
Dan 8:15 And it came to pass, when I, even I Daniel, had seen the vision, and sought for the meaning, then, behold, there stood before me as the appearance of a man.

Daniel was given a vision and couldn't understand it. Notice the 2300 days. Then the Angel Gabriel came to help Daniel, but he still didn't get it. "make this man to understand the vision."

Dan 8:26 And the vision of the evening and the morning which was told is true: wherefore shut thou up the vision; for it shall be for many days.
Dan 8:27 And I Daniel fainted, and was sick certain days; afterward I rose up, and did the king's business; and I was astonished at the vision, but none understood it.

So Daniel is sick and can't understand it.... But then Gabriel comes back....

Dan 9:21 Yea, whiles I was speaking in prayer, even the man Gabriel, whom I had seen in the vision at the beginning, being caused to fly swiftly, touched me about the time of the evening oblation.
Dan 9:22 And he informed me, and talked with me, and said, O Daniel, I am now come forth to give thee skill and understanding.
Dan 9:23 At the beginning of thy supplications the commandment came forth, and I am come to shew thee; for thou art greatly beloved: therefore understand the matter, and consider the vision.

This needs to be connected to the 2300 day vision in chapter 8.

Dan 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city,

70 weeks out of the 2300 days were given to Israel to get things right.

Same starting point for both.

Excellent TMS. When you crack this a big mist may clear....keep going

 

[Yahshua]

He was killed in the middle of the 70th week.

In perfect fulfillment.

Work out when the time started... from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem (starting point.) unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: (Jesus would come on the 69th week).

I had the same mind to do just that, TMS. Although, I wish we still had the ability to make tables on the site...Let's see if I remember this correctly:


- 457 BC: Persian King Artaxerxes "commands" to rebuild Jerusalem; Ezra leads (Nehemiah 2:8-17; 4:17)

(49 yrs)

- 408 BC: Rebuilding continued after Ezra

(434 yrs)

- 28 AD: The Messiah is cut off within this next time-frame

(7 yrs)

- 35 AD: Steven stoned & Paul chosen in 34 AD; Gospel to the gentiles & hedge removed from Jews

-----

457 BC to 408 BC = 7 Sevens (49 yrs)

408 BC to 27 AD = 62 Sevens (434 yrs)

28++ AD = "After" 62 Sevens

28 AD to 35 AD = 1 Seven (7 yrs), everlasting covenant made

28 AD ((+)) 35 AD = "in the midst" of Seven (7 yrs), need for animal sacrifices ceased because of perfect sacrifice

 

[Yahshua]

Dan 8:14 And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.
Dan 8:15 And it came to pass, when I, even I Daniel, had seen the vision, and sought for the meaning, then, behold, there stood before me as the appearance of a man.

Daniel was given a vision and couldn't understand it. Notice the 2300 days. Then the Angel Gabriel came to help Daniel, but he still didn't get it. "make this man to understand the vision."

Dan 8:26 And the vision of the evening and the morning which was told is true: wherefore shut thou up the vision; for it shall be for many days.
Dan 8:27 And I Daniel fainted, and was sick certain days; afterward I rose up, and did the king's business; and I was astonished at the vision, but none understood it.

So Daniel is sick and can't understand it.... But then Gabriel comes back....

Dan 9:21 Yea, whiles I was speaking in prayer, even the man Gabriel, whom I had seen in the vision at the beginning, being caused to fly swiftly, touched me about the time of the evening oblation.
Dan 9:22 And he informed me, and talked with me, and said, O Daniel, I am now come forth to give thee skill and understanding.
Dan 9:23 At the beginning of thy supplications the commandment came forth, and I am come to shew thee; for thou art greatly beloved: therefore understand the matter, and consider the vision.

This needs to be connected to the 2300 day vision in chapter 8.

Dan 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city,

70 weeks out of the 2300 days were given to Israel to get things right.

Same starting point for both.

lol all I had to do was wait a bit longer

 

[TMS]

Futurism is a Christian eschatological view that interprets portions of the Book of Revelation, the Book of Ezekiel, and the Book of Daniel as future events in a literal, physical, apocalyptic, and global context.
By comparison, other Christian eschatological views interpret these passages as past events in a symbolic, historic context (Preterism and Historicism), or as present-day events in a non-literal and spiritual context (Idealism). Futurist beliefs usually have a close association with Premillennialism and Dispensationalism.

Futurism not biblical

 

[TMS]

Francisco Ribera (1537-1591), a brilliant Jesuit priest and doctor of theology from Spain, answered Papacy’s call. He then developed the doctrine of futurism.
In 1590 Ribera published a commentary on the Revelation as a counter interpretation to the prevailing view among Protestants which identified the Papacy with the Antichrist. Ribera applied all of Revelation to the end time rather than to the history of the church. Antichrist, he taught, would be a single evil person who would be received by the Jews and who would rebuild Jerusalem.

Ribera denied the Protestant Scriptural Antichrist (2 Thessalonians 2) as seated in the church of God-asserted by Augustine, Jerome, Luther, and many reformers. He set on an infidel Antichrist, outside the church of God.

The result of [Ribera’s] work was a twisting and maligning of prophetic truth.

 

[TMS]

If History proves that futurism is a twisted view of prophesy why do you continue to follow it. by disconnecting the last week and placing it in the future you are following a futurist view.

 

[ewq1938]

If History proves that futurism is a twisted view of prophesy

At least Futurism still believes in prophecy. Preterism is a view that destroys the concept of prophecy. Jesus literally said in the Olivet Discourse that one generation would "see all these things" which includes his second coming and the angels gathering the elect. Guess what? Those things didn't happen to that one generation yet. Preterism is obviously a heresy to blind people from the yet to happen prophecies. Preterism HELPS the antichrist deceive the world because many think the antichrist and Great Tribulation are past events.