Why Daniel's 70th week must be in the future

[Dino246]

Daniel is forbidden in Israel

Because messiah did not come in 69 weeks as prophesied.

And I know mine is not the only view. I am just explaining my view. and showing why I can not interpret your view. I am giving a second view.

Dan 9 has not been fulfilled. There was never an abomination fo desolation in AD 70. this alone shows that it could not be fulfilled. this is not to include everything else that has yet to happen.

I don't understand your first or second sentences; could you please explain what you mean.

 

[Dino246]

It is?

then why are they not living in the land? Why did the land get destroyed according to lev 26? Why are they still in sin?

I read your post. I just can not agree with it.

Remember, we must look at all prophecy

The below has not yet happened?

ez 37:
21 “Then say to them, ‘Thus says the Lord God: “Surely I will take the children of Israel from among the nations, wherever they have gone, and will gather them from every side and bring them into their own land; 22 and I will make them one nation in the land, on the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king over them all; they shall no longer be two nations, nor shall they ever be divided into two kingdoms again. 23 They shall not defile themselves anymore with their idols, nor with their detestable things, nor with any of their transgressions; but I will deliver them from all their dwelling places in which they have sinned, and will cleanse them. Then they shall be My people, and I will be their God.

This is when Israel will make a complete end of her transgressions.

Again, please consider alternate meanings of "finish". I did explain this previously, but it seems to have escaped your consideration.

The Jews rejected their Messiah; they can't sin any more grievously than that, even though they can continue to commit other sins. They have filled up to completion the measure of their sin. The consequence for that sin was long foretold, and is long-since fulfilled.

In the same way, Jesus fulfilled the law, but the law continues to have applicability.

 

[OldSage]

Even if we use the [Traitor] Josephus' writings describing the 70 A.D. Events, he does not clarify the Sun turned black as night, the Moon turned to blood, or that Christ Returned. And if we want to be theoretical here, he does not even describe a single Event where the Man of Desolation sits upon the the Temple Throne and proclaims he is God before the Temple's destruction. For those claiming some are reading into scripture, it appears more likely that others are reading into the writings of Josephus.

Most of what you suggest does not exist in Scripture.
Regarding the destruction of the Temple, are you suggesting that Josephus made it up?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

It doesn't say he comes - it just says he is cut off

It says from the command to build is given until messiah the prince shall be

Until messiah the prince what?

 

[OldSage]

Christ proclaimed the Events of the [Great Tribulation] would be like nothing that took place prior or afterwards. As a Veteran Member of the United States Military, I can promise what I've read from Josephus' writings compared to what I've seen is no comparison on a destructive level. When I hear/read others proclaiming 70 A.D. Destruction was the Great Tribulation like never nor ever seen before, I quickly realize how VERY LITTLE in experience those people are. And to be blunt, how inadequate their opinion is!

Christ spoke of great suffering. Clearly if it was a case of the biggest bombs etc, Roman catapaults
don't really stand comparison with nuclear warheads.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Christ proclaimed the Events of the [Great Tribulation] would be like nothing that took place prior or afterwards. As a Veteran Member of the United States Military, I can promise what I've read from Josephus' writings compared to what I've seen is no comparison on a destructive level. When I hear/read others proclaiming 70 A.D. Destruction was the Great Tribulation like never nor ever seen before, I quickly realize how VERY LITTLE in experience those people are. And to be blunt, how inadequate their opinion is!

in comparison to WW1 and WW2 the events of 70 AD was a picnic.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I don't understand your first or second sentences; could you please explain what you mean.

If you go to Israel. And speak of Daniel. they will tell you it is a forbidden book. They are not even aloud to look at.

One of the reasons is the prophesies, which should have been fulfilled. Have not been fulfilled according to them yet.

If messiah did not come at the end of 69 weeks as prophesied. then the whole book must be rejected.

 

[AandW]

Most of what you suggest does not exist in Scripture.
Regarding the destruction of the Temple, are you suggesting that Josephus made it up?

How so?

Joel 2 and Matthew 24 talks about after that Great Tribulation Sun darkens, Moon darkened/blood, Christ Returns.

29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.


30 And I will shew wonders in the heavens and in the earth, blood, and fire, and pillars of smoke.

31 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come.

 

[AandW]

Christ spoke of great suffering. Clearly if it was a case of the biggest bombs etc, Roman catapaults
don't really stand comparison with nuclear warheads.

Have you ever read the Battles of Rome? They did the same thing to everyone they went to war against. How does the Jewish war suddenly become more intense with suffering than any other Roman opponent?

And how does the Roman conquest compare to Ghengis Kahn who killed 250,000 men per day for 6 months? One source claims he killed 1,748,000 people in a single hour. How does Jerusalem compare to that?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Again, please consider alternate meanings of "finish". I did explain this previously, but it seems to have escaped your consideration.

The Jews rejected their Messiah; they can't sin any more grievously than that, even though they can continue to commit other sins. They have filled up to completion the measure of their sin. The consequence for that sin was long foretold, and is long-since fulfilled.

In the same way, Jesus fulfilled the law, but the law continues to have applicability.

Again,

I have considered the alternate meaning and I can not agree with it.

I have asked you to consider the fact that according to other prophecies. Israel will stop her sin against God as they repent and will be restored into her land.

Your version does not consider this.

 

[OldSage]

If you go to Israel. And speak of Daniel. they will tell you it is a forbidden book. They are not even aloud to look at.

One of the reasons is the prophesies, which should have been fulfilled. Have not been fulfilled according to them yet.

If messiah did not come at the end of 69 weeks as prophesied. then the whole book must be rejected.

So there's a big clue EG.

Rabbinic Jews rejected Jesus & they think Daniel's 70 Heptads are not completed.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

So there's a big clue EG.

Rabbinic Jews rejected Jesus & they think Daniel's 70 Heptads are not completed.

That does not mean THEY ARE COMPLETED. As you are trying to state.

They think they will NEVER BE COMPLETED. hence they are a false prophecy and Daniel is forbidden reading as he was a false prophet.

 

[OldSage]

Have you ever read the Battles of Rome? They did the same thing to everyone they went to war against. How does the Jewish war suddenly become more intense with suffering than any other Roman opponent?

And how does the Roman conquest compare to Ghengis Kahn who killed 250,000 men per day for 6 months? One source claims he killed 1,748,000 people in a single hour. How does Jerusalem compare to that?

Hi A&W,

I the great suffering encompasses the entire period of Jewish diaspora.

Given GK's character I guess the court scribes might have inflated the numbers a bit....joking, a bit

 

[PennEd]

We are seeing the fruit of the preterists now, as so many are blind to what is happening with the plandemic.

I actually believe private interpretations and allegory to explain away Scripture is sin.

The anti- christ will come as a Global ruler, and force his mark.
Jesus will rule on a physical Throne, on Earth.

Preterists do not, and will not understand unfolding events because of their unBiblical interpretations.

 

[OldSage]

We are seeing the fruit of the preterists now, as so many are blind to what is happening with the plandemic.

I actually believe private interpretations and allegory to explain away Scripture is sin.

The anti- christ will come as a Global ruler, and force his mark.
Jesus will rule on a physical Throne, on Earth.

Preterists do not, and will not understand unfolding events because of their unBiblical interpretations.

joining the dots....
Are you saying that people who cue up for the jab believe that we are in some kind of millennial kingdom?

 

[AandW]

Hi A&W,

I the great suffering encompasses the entire period of Jewish diaspora.

Given GK's character I guess the court scribes might have inflated the numbers a bit....joking, a bit

From Josephus concerning the physical appearance of Christ Yeshua: [Now, indeed He was no Caucasian so His color does not bother me in Josephus' description]

“At that time also there appeared a certain man of magic power … if it be meet to call him a man, [whose name is Jesus], whom [certain] Greeks call a son of [a] God, but his disciples [call] the true prophet who is supposed to have raised dead persons and to have cured all diseases. Both his nature and his form were human, for he was a man of simple appearance, mature age, black-skinned (melagchrous), short growth, three cubits tall, hunchbacked, prognathous (lit. ‘with a long face [macroprosopos]), a long nose, eyebrows meeting above the nose, that the spectators could take fright, with scanty [curly] hair, but having a line in the middle of the head after the fashion of the Nazaraeans, with an undeveloped beard.”

^
How much of that do you believe is correct?

 

[Yahshua]

Have you ever read the Battles of Rome? They did the same thing to everyone they went to war against. How does the Jewish war suddenly become more intense with suffering than any other Roman opponent?

And how does the Roman conquest compare to Ghengis Kahn who killed 250,000 men per day for 6 months? One source claims he killed 1,748,000 people in a single hour. How does Jerusalem compare to that?

Because the city was razed to the ground. Men, women, children. All decimated. If many Jews didn't flee beforehand no one would've survived the initial blood-lust. There's testimony that during the siege food was cut off and so some even resorted to eating their children.

It's not about the number of deaths, it's about the severity of it all (intensity and duration). If there were only 30,000 people in a town and that entire town was slaughtered: men, women and children alike...with no quarter, no rest or surrendering allowed...and then the town burned with every building that survived the burning smashed to powder, that's considered a massacre.

Secondly, we need to remember that Daniel (as well as the disciples listening the Messiah during the Olivet Discourse) had no concern about "the world". They cared about what was going to happen TO THEM. Their concern was for their people. The Angel and The Messiah were speaking about the great suffering that would befall the Jews that wouldn't be matched "since there was a nation".

What nation of people has suffered (in intensity and duration) for hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of years, since they were expelled from their homeland, more than the Jews?

We have to acknowledge (though some might not want to) that throughout history there were many surviving Jews hated and mistreated by many gentile Christians & Catholics for "murdering the Christ"; also considered "heretics" and "judaizers" to both papal authority as well as to laity and royalty...kicked out of countries...blamed for diseases...and they were also the primary victims of the inquisitions. And on and on throughout history.

 

[Yahshua]

From Josephus concerning the physical appearance of Christ Yeshua: [Now, indeed He was no Caucasian so His color does not bother me in Josephus' description]

“At that time also there appeared a certain man of magic power … if it be meet to call him a man, [whose name is Jesus], whom [certain] Greeks call a son of [a] God, but his disciples [call] the true prophet who is supposed to have raised dead persons and to have cured all diseases. Both his nature and his form were human, for he was a man of simple appearance, mature age, black-skinned (melagchrous), short growth, three cubits tall, hunchbacked, prognathous (lit. ‘with a long face [macroprosopos]), a long nose, eyebrows meeting above the nose, that the spectators could take fright, with scanty [curly] hair, but having a line in the middle of the head after the fashion of the Nazaraeans, with an undeveloped beard.”

^
How much of that do you believe is correct?

I'm not sure I understand what you're getting at here. Are you citing this as a reason not to trust the account of Josephus regarding other historic testimony like the destruction of Jerusalem?


Isaiah 53:2
For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him.


Who knows what he actually looked like, but it would seem that as far as Josephus was concerned the Messiah wasn't a handsome man by the world standards, which fits the scripture above.

 

[OldSage]

From Josephus concerning the physical appearance of Christ Yeshua: [Now, indeed He was no Caucasian so His color does not bother me in Josephus' description]

“At that time also there appeared a certain man of magic power … if it be meet to call him a man, [whose name is Jesus], whom [certain] Greeks call a son of [a] God, but his disciples [call] the true prophet who is supposed to have raised dead persons and to have cured all diseases. Both his nature and his form were human, for he was a man of simple appearance, mature age, black-skinned (melagchrous), short growth, three cubits tall, hunchbacked, prognathous (lit. ‘with a long face [macroprosopos]), a long nose, eyebrows meeting above the nose, that the spectators could take fright, with scanty [curly] hair, but having a line in the middle of the head after the fashion of the Nazaraeans, with an undeveloped beard.”

^
How much of that do you believe is correct?

or this?

Josephus’ Description of Jesus
3. (63) Now, there was about this time Jesus, a wise man, if it be lawful to call him a man, for he was a doer of wonderful works-a teacher of such men as receive the truth with pleasure. He drew over to him both many of the Jews, and many of the Gentiles. He was [the] Christ; (64) and when Pilate, at the suggestion of the principal men amongst us, had condemned him to the cross, those that loved him at the first did not forsake him, for he appeared to them alive again the third day, as the divine prophets had foretold these and ten thousand other wonderful things concerning him; and the tribe of Christians, so named from him, are not extinct at this day.
The Antiquities of the Jews, Book 18, Chapter 3
From The Works of Josephus,
translated by William Whiston
Hendrickson Publishers, 1987

 

[OldSage]

From Josephus concerning the physical appearance of Christ Yeshua: [Now, indeed He was no Caucasian so His color does not bother me in Josephus' description]

“At that time also there appeared a certain man of magic power … if it be meet to call him a man, [whose name is Jesus], whom [certain] Greeks call a son of [a] God, but his disciples [call] the true prophet who is supposed to have raised dead persons and to have cured all diseases. Both his nature and his form were human, for he was a man of simple appearance, mature age, black-skinned (melagchrous), short growth, three cubits tall, hunchbacked, prognathous (lit. ‘with a long face [macroprosopos]), a long nose, eyebrows meeting above the nose, that the spectators could take fright, with scanty [curly] hair, but having a line in the middle of the head after the fashion of the Nazaraeans, with an undeveloped beard.”

^
How much of that do you believe is correct?

It sounds terribly like Sammy Davis Junior he is describing.
Why not?