2 Thessalonians 2
- Thread starter OldSage
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
I partially agree CN. There were certainly mysteries in the old age/testament that were clarified in the new covenant, (by Christ or the disciples), hence:
1 Peter 1 10 Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:11 Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.12 Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into.
But notice that the mysteries are still ongoing when Peter writes. The Gospel elucidates the mysteries, but the angels still desire to look into the mysteries - which is telling us that there are still things undisclosed.
So that's it, there are new testament mysteries as well. E.G. The Kingdom of Heaven.
Mark 1:27 The people were all so amazed that they asked each other, “What is this? A new teaching—and with authority! He even gives orders to impure spirits and they obey him.”
And to get back to my original post, the parables are most definitely 'mysterion', mysteries, hidden things. They deliberately hide their meaning, and they are new testament not old. Matt 13:11 Mark 4:11 Luke 8:10
Just to make sure there is no confusion on this.
Ephesians 6 19 Pray also for me, that whenever I speak, words may be given me so that I will fearlessly make known the mystery of the gospel, 20 for which I am an ambassador in chains. Pray that I may declare it fearlessly, as I should.
1 Peter 1 10 Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:11 Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.12 Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into.
But notice that the mysteries are still ongoing when Peter writes. The Gospel elucidates the mysteries, but the angels still desire to look into the mysteries - which is telling us that there are still things undisclosed.
So that's it, there are new testament mysteries as well. E.G. The Kingdom of Heaven.
Mark 1:27 The people were all so amazed that they asked each other, “What is this? A new teaching—and with authority! He even gives orders to impure spirits and they obey him.”
And to get back to my original post, the parables are most definitely 'mysterion', mysteries, hidden things. They deliberately hide their meaning, and they are new testament not old. Matt 13:11 Mark 4:11 Luke 8:10
Just to make sure there is no confusion on this.
Ephesians 6 19 Pray also for me, that whenever I speak, words may be given me so that I will fearlessly make known the mystery of the gospel, 20 for which I am an ambassador in chains. Pray that I may declare it fearlessly, as I should.
It is not enough to simply quote this passage. So let's break it down.
IT IS ADDRESSED TO CHRISTIANS NOT TO THE WORLD
THERE IS A DIRECT REFERENCE TO THE RAPTURE ("GATHERING TOGETHER")
...by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him...
FEAR-MONGERING BY THOSE WHO CLAIMED THAT THE RESURRECTION/ RAPTURE WAS ALREADY PAST
...That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. [Note: "the day of Christ" speaks of the Resurrection/Rapture]
THE APOSTASY OF CHRISTENDOM WILL PRECEDE THE RAPTURE
...Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first... [Note: we are seeing this all around us]
THE ANTICHRIST WILL COME IMMEDIATELY AFTER THAT
...and that Man of Sin be revealed, the Son of Perdition...
THE ANTICHRIST IS THE ENEMY OF GOD AND CLAIMS TO BE GOD
Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. [Note: there must be another temple in Jerusalem for this to be fulfilled]
PAUL HAD ALREADY SPOKEN ABOUT THESE MATTERS (THEY WERE NOT NEW)
Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
THE REASON WHY THE ANTICHRIST HAD NOT (AND HAS NOT) TAKEN CONTROL
And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. [or "only He (the Holy Spirit) who now restrains will restrain until He is taken out of the way", since only God can restrain Satan]
THE ANTICHRIST WILL REIGN UNTIL CHRIST DESTROYS HIM AT HIS SECOND COMING
And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: [Note: God allows the Antichrist power for only 3 1/2 years]
SATAN IS THE POWER BEHIND THE ANTICHRIST
Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan... [Note: called "the Dragon in Rev 13]
DECEPTIIVE MIRACLES WILL FOOL THE WORLD INTO BELIEVING ON THIS MAN
..with all power and signs and lying wonders, And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; ...
THOSE WHO ARE DECEIVED DID NOT LOVE THE TRUTH TO BEGIN WITH
...because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
GOD WILL THEREFORE PUT THEM UNDER A STRONG DELUSION
And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
CHRISTIANS ARE CHOSEN FOR SALVATION AND SHOULD LOVE THE TRUTH
But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
THE GOSPEL CALL BRINGS MEN TO CHRIST
Whereunto he called you by our Gospel...
THE END OF SALVATION IS GLORIFICATION (AT THE RESURRECTION/RAPTURE)
...to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.
CHRISTIANS ARE TO STAND FAST AND HOLD FAST TO APOSTOLIC TEACHINGS
Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle. [Note: "traditions" are the teachings of Christ handed down by the apostles]
CHRISTIANS HAVE A GOOD HOPE OF SEEING CHRIST AT THE RAPTURE
Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God, even our Father, which hath loved us, and hath given us everlasting consolation and good hope through grace, Comfort your hearts, and stablish you in every good word and work." - 2 Thessalonian 2 KJV [Note: this good hope is also called "the blessed hope"]
IT IS ADDRESSED TO CHRISTIANS NOT TO THE WORLD
THERE IS A DIRECT REFERENCE TO THE RAPTURE ("GATHERING TOGETHER")
...by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him...
FEAR-MONGERING BY THOSE WHO CLAIMED THAT THE RESURRECTION/ RAPTURE WAS ALREADY PAST
...That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. [Note: "the day of Christ" speaks of the Resurrection/Rapture]
THE APOSTASY OF CHRISTENDOM WILL PRECEDE THE RAPTURE
...Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first... [Note: we are seeing this all around us]
THE ANTICHRIST WILL COME IMMEDIATELY AFTER THAT
...and that Man of Sin be revealed, the Son of Perdition...
THE ANTICHRIST IS THE ENEMY OF GOD AND CLAIMS TO BE GOD
Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. [Note: there must be another temple in Jerusalem for this to be fulfilled]
PAUL HAD ALREADY SPOKEN ABOUT THESE MATTERS (THEY WERE NOT NEW)
Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
THE REASON WHY THE ANTICHRIST HAD NOT (AND HAS NOT) TAKEN CONTROL
And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. [or "only He (the Holy Spirit) who now restrains will restrain until He is taken out of the way", since only God can restrain Satan]
THE ANTICHRIST WILL REIGN UNTIL CHRIST DESTROYS HIM AT HIS SECOND COMING
And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: [Note: God allows the Antichrist power for only 3 1/2 years]
SATAN IS THE POWER BEHIND THE ANTICHRIST
Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan... [Note: called "the Dragon in Rev 13]
DECEPTIIVE MIRACLES WILL FOOL THE WORLD INTO BELIEVING ON THIS MAN
..with all power and signs and lying wonders, And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; ...
THOSE WHO ARE DECEIVED DID NOT LOVE THE TRUTH TO BEGIN WITH
...because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
GOD WILL THEREFORE PUT THEM UNDER A STRONG DELUSION
And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
CHRISTIANS ARE CHOSEN FOR SALVATION AND SHOULD LOVE THE TRUTH
But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
THE GOSPEL CALL BRINGS MEN TO CHRIST
Whereunto he called you by our Gospel...
THE END OF SALVATION IS GLORIFICATION (AT THE RESURRECTION/RAPTURE)
...to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.
CHRISTIANS ARE TO STAND FAST AND HOLD FAST TO APOSTOLIC TEACHINGS
Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle. [Note: "traditions" are the teachings of Christ handed down by the apostles]
CHRISTIANS HAVE A GOOD HOPE OF SEEING CHRIST AT THE RAPTURE
Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God, even our Father, which hath loved us, and hath given us everlasting consolation and good hope through grace, Comfort your hearts, and stablish you in every good word and work." - 2 Thessalonian 2 KJV [Note: this good hope is also called "the blessed hope"]
-
1
- Show all
Uh oh! You have to press through! When you read of the Law, and it extends through Numbers, it is not easy to read, but we need to read it! One reason to read and try to understand every dot and crossed "t" is to understand the plight of the Jews. If reading the Law is difficult, how much more difficult was it for them to Endure? The Blessed Jews were so busy sacrificing and tending to their animals, they couldn't possibly had a job! Imagine having a job, yet you must tell your boss that you can't be "in camp" for the next week or two. It wouldn't work. The Law was impossible to follow, for the Jews were committing sins that they weren't even aware of, hence, "unintentional" sinning.
Below is a link that shows how to read the entire Bible in a timeline, chronological order. I was shocked to learn that the Bible was not organized in such a way, but once the Lord showed me the Truth of this matter, and once I began reading the Bible in this way, my entire life has changed. I know that yours will change too. I encourage you to read two days worth of readings in one day, for this way you can read the entire Bible in six months, and if you are persistent, you can read the entire Bible twice per year. I encourage you to do this!!
You will thank me!! Imagine reading your favorite book, but the chapters were all out of order. It would be impossible to understand.
Timeline Chronological Reading Plan
Below is a link that shows how to read the entire Bible in a timeline, chronological order. I was shocked to learn that the Bible was not organized in such a way, but once the Lord showed me the Truth of this matter, and once I began reading the Bible in this way, my entire life has changed. I know that yours will change too. I encourage you to read two days worth of readings in one day, for this way you can read the entire Bible in six months, and if you are persistent, you can read the entire Bible twice per year. I encourage you to do this!!
You will thank me!! Imagine reading your favorite book, but the chapters were all out of order. It would be impossible to understand.Timeline Chronological Reading Plan
-
1
- Show all
Uh oh! You have to press through! When you read of the Law, and it extends through Numbers, it is not easy to read, but we need to read it! One reason to read and try to understand every dot and crossed "t" is to understand the plight of the Jews. If reading the Law is difficult, how much more difficult was it for them to Endure? The Blessed Jews were so busy sacrificing and tending to their animals, they couldn't possibly had a job! Imagine having a job, yet you must tell your boss that you can't be "in camp" for the next week or two. It wouldn't work. The Law was impossible to follow, for the Jews were committing sins that they weren't even aware of, hence, "unintentional" sinning.
Below is a link that shows how to read the entire Bible in a timeline, chronological order. I was shocked to learn that the Bible was not organized in such a way, but once the Lord showed me the Truth of this matter, and once I began reading the Bible in this way, my entire life has changed. I know that yours will change too. I encourage you to read two days worth of readings in one day, for this way you can read the entire Bible in six months, and if you are persistent, you can read the entire Bible twice per year. I encourage you to do this!! You will thank me!! Imagine reading your favorite book, but the chapters were all out of order. It would be impossible to understand.
Timeline Chronological Reading Plan
Below is a link that shows how to read the entire Bible in a timeline, chronological order. I was shocked to learn that the Bible was not organized in such a way, but once the Lord showed me the Truth of this matter, and once I began reading the Bible in this way, my entire life has changed. I know that yours will change too. I encourage you to read two days worth of readings in one day, for this way you can read the entire Bible in six months, and if you are persistent, you can read the entire Bible twice per year. I encourage you to do this!!
You will thank me!! Imagine reading your favorite book, but the chapters were all out of order. It would be impossible to understand.Timeline Chronological Reading Plan
Yes sir. I have recorded nine different places throughout Jeremiah where there is an accounting of future events, and recountings of past events. And this is beautiful! So as we read Jeremiah, we read of past, current, and future events, and it is up to us to know and understand each of them. But here's the thing: When we [do] take the time to understand these things (more of them, at least), the more the Bible becomes alive and quite frankly, absolutely unbelievable! I love our Bible so much . . . but that Love never existed until I began to understand the [full] story that has been incredibly lain out for us. And it is my wish that we would all come to know this [full] story, for in this whole and complete understanding rests the hidden, Mysterious Plan that has always been in effect. Amazing!
No sir. Abel, the son of Adam, was the first prophet . . . can you believe that?
Luke 11:50-51 NIV - "Therefore this generation will be held responsible for the blood of all the prophets that has been shed since the beginning of the world, from the blood of Abel to the blood of Zechariah, who was killed between the altar and the sanctuary. Yes, I tell you, this generation will be held responsible for it all."
I have recorded nine different places throughout Jeremiah where there is an accounting of future events, and recountings of past events. And this is beautiful! So as we read Jeremiah, we read of past, current, and future events, and it is up to us to know and understand each of them. But here's the thing: When we [do] take the time to understand these things (more of them, at least), the more the Bible becomes alive and quite frankly, absolutely unbelievable! I love our Bible so much . . . but that Love never existed until I began to understand the [full] story that has been incredibly lain out for us. And it is my wish that we would all come to know this [full] story, for in this whole and complete understanding rests the hidden, Mysterious Plan that has always been in effect. Amazing!No sir.
Abel, the son of Adam, was the first prophet . . . can you believe that?Luke 11:50-51 NIV - "Therefore this generation will be held responsible for the blood of all the prophets that has been shed since the beginning of the world, from the blood of Abel to the blood of Zechariah, who was killed between the altar and the sanctuary. Yes, I tell you, this generation will be held responsible for it all."
-
1
- Show all
Right, but I was speaking of brand new mysteries introduced in the NT mainly by Paul.
Peter and Paul were contemporaries.
Notice the phrase in vs. 12..." which are now reported unto you", so I don't believe there are any ongoing mysteries...except maybe mystery Babylon (Revelation).
I see the parables designed to hide it's own teaching from the unbelievers yet teach those who believe.
Matthew 13:11-14 (KJV) He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given. For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath. Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand. And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:
Peter and Paul were contemporaries.
Notice the phrase in vs. 12..." which are now reported unto you", so I don't believe there are any ongoing mysteries...except maybe mystery Babylon (Revelation).
I see the parables designed to hide it's own teaching from the unbelievers yet teach those who believe.
Matthew 13:11-14 (KJV) He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given. For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath. Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand. And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:
-
1
- Show all
I agree with what you said here - TDW is very polite.
I would just like to know --- is it 'he' or 'she' --- is that too much to ask???
@TheDivineWatermark ???
I would just like to know --- is it 'he' or 'she' --- is that too much to ask???
@TheDivineWatermark ???
-
1
- Show all
[Again] See Lam2:3-4 (back in OT times)... I referenced earlier in this thread, I believe...
Compare with the language in 2Th2:7b-8a (the context of our present Subject under discussion).
[I personally see that as yet future , 2Th2:7b-8a, that is]
Compare with the language in 2Th2:7b-8a (the context of our present Subject under discussion).
[I personally see that as yet future
, 2Th2:7b-8a, that is]
[Lam2:3-4 - "IN FLAMING FIRE" (plus further similarities / connections)]
You need to understand what I have written on this web page:
http://mywebsite.us/BibleStudy/Seventy_Weeks.html
- and, that the following sets of verses are saying the identical exact same thing:
Matthew 24:15-20
Mark 13:14-18
Luke 21:20-23a
The key to this is understanding the proper meaning of the parenthetical phrases in Matthew 24:15 / Mark 13:14.
http://mywebsite.us/BibleStudy/Seventy_Weeks.html
- and, that the following sets of verses are saying the identical exact same thing:
Matthew 24:15-20
Mark 13:14-18
Luke 21:20-23a
The key to this is understanding the proper meaning of the parenthetical phrases in Matthew 24:15 / Mark 13:14.
The phrase [the] 'Day of The Lord' is not just "wrath language"; it is - in every place, in every case - referring to the Second Coming ('event').
Please see:
http://mywebsite.us/BibleStudy/Second_Coming.html
Every single entry in that chart/table is referring to the Second Coming.
Please see:
http://mywebsite.us/BibleStudy/Second_Coming.html
Every single entry in that chart/table is referring to the Second Coming.