To what extent does the OT apply to Christians?

[Ajaron]

People who live without considering God part of their lives think of food as only for the stomach. Christians, seeped in the word, know that in God's world food is for feeding what is everlasting and eternal about them. Heathens read scripture as it applies to the diet, Christians read scripture as it applies to the soul.

In the old testament, before all God's people were given the holy spirit, those people were told to keep their diet clean as a symbol of keeping all things around them of cleanliness., Now, through the holy spirit we know that applies to the mind and soul, and what goes in the stomach is eliminated, what goes in the mind is not.

Hi thank you for the kind comment. there is a spiritual aspect to every physical thing. can we both acknowledge that it's possible to see both without being a heathen?
spirit water and blood agree as one in 1john5. knowledge is in part, so it's of this world. wisdom is heavenly. but both are listed in 1cor12 as gifts of the holy spirit. just saying. there are this worldly applications on top of there being truer spiritual ones.

 

[Ajaron]

The old covenant says "do not eat this because it is unclean to you". These foods are not unclean to Christians (unless one esteems it to be so). There are Jewish Christians that follow the OT dietary laws, meaning that those foods deemed unclean in the OT are unclean to them in the NT.

What you say is not true in all cases.

hey you are right truely. i was referring to christians not as a monolith, but as commonly done where i'm from. protestant catholics. protestants. but yes there are people like myself who put jesus first in our lives, but do not remove what is very beneficial in the teachings that preceded us.

 

[tourist]

Sorry if there is a duplication. My computer is acting up.

My computer is always acting up.

 

[Blik]

Hi thank you for the kind comment. there is a spiritual aspect to every physical thing. can we both acknowledge that it's possible to see both without being a heathen?
spirit water and blood agree as one in 1john5. knowledge is in part, so it's of this world. wisdom is heavenly. but both are listed in 1cor12 as gifts of the holy spirit. just saying. there are this worldly applications on top of there being truer spiritual ones.

Isn't it a strange truth that there is a spiritual aspect to every physical thing! Thanks for bringing this out, I have often thought about it. Especially in the old covenant, it gives the physical thing to explain the spiriical. Maybe God had this in mind when God told us to rightly divide.

 

[Lafftur]

The only thing I could add to make this post perfect answer would be "By the restoring of our soul [to the trust, i.e., confidence in, God's love for us] which consists of [thus loving God, as we love Him because (were given to come to believe) He first loved us] [with all] our mind, will, and emotions.

After all, the lack of trust in God is the impetus of sin, i.e., we sin, the same as Adam and Eve did, because of a lack of faith in God's love and faithfulness that would never lie to us.

No one can trust someone they do not know….

There are wonderful blessings for those that trust the Lord yet, we cannot trust someone we do not know.

We can only know God with our heart…not our mind….knowing and loving God is an emotional decision…there is no human logic involved.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Then you agree that in order to find all of the relevant commandments you need only look in the NT?

Yes. Every commandment is encompassed in the Law of Christ, which is the Law of Love. The Ten Commandments teach perfect love towards God (the first 4 commandments) and perfect love towards your neighbor (the last 6 commandments). And this is only by the power of the indwelling Holy Spirt after a person has been born again, and entered into the Kingdom of God.

At the same time, every Christian must study the entire Bible, since there are many lessons in the OT for Christians.

 

[Jocund]

Yes. Every commandment is encompassed in the Law of Christ, which is the Law of Love. The Ten Commandments teach perfect love towards God (the first 4 commandments) and perfect love towards your neighbor (the last 6 commandments). And this is only by the power of the indwelling Holy Spirt after a person has been born again, and entered into the Kingdom of God.

At the same time, every Christian must study the entire Bible, since there are many lessons in the OT for Christians.

The law is fulfilled in Christ, but there is a subtlety in that. Not all of the OT commandments apply. But those that appear in the NT also have the correct context within the NT covenant. It is better to first look to the NT to find the commandments. It is true that all scripture can be used to teach, but some aspects of that teaching are for comparison. It is important to understand that an OT commandment has no standing unless it appears in the NT (and the NT provides the correct context for the commandments). It is important to understand that the old Law as it applied to the Hebrews in the OT was different and applied differently based on the old priesthood.

 

[Mem]

No one can trust someone they do not know….

There are wonderful blessings for those that trust the Lord yet, we cannot trust someone we do not know.

We can only know God with our heart…not our mind….knowing and loving God is an emotional decision…there is no human logic involved.

He is the source of all sound logic, He is The Logos from which logic is derived.

 

[Blik]

The law is fulfilled in Christ, but there is a subtlety in that. Not all of the OT commandments apply. But those that appear in the NT also have the correct context within the NT covenant. It is better to first look to the NT to find the commandments. It is true that all scripture can be used to teach, but some aspects of that teaching are for comparison. It is important to understand that an OT commandment has no standing unless it appears in the NT (and the NT provides the correct context for the commandments). It is important to understand that the old Law as it applied to the Hebrews in the OT was different and applied differently based on the old priesthood.

I so wish people wouldn't keep repeating how some of what God tells us in the OT "doesn't apply". When God wrote the law into our hearts instead of giving physical things to do to represent them, people say those physical things "don't apply", and in a way they are right. But they are to be listened to, to see how they relate to spiritual commands. They came from God. It gives the impression to others that you are disregarding God when you keep speaking in this way. Why not say instead that there are commands we obey in a different way now? That would not be telling ourselves and others that it is fine to disobey the Lord in certain ways.

 

[Ajaron]

The law is fulfilled in Christ, but there is a subtlety in that. Not all of the OT commandments apply. But those that appear in the NT also have the correct context within the NT covenant. It is better to first look to the NT to find the commandments. It is true that all scripture can be used to teach, but some aspects of that teaching are for comparison. It is important to understand that an OT commandment has no standing unless it appears in the NT (and the NT provides the correct context for the commandments). It is important to understand that the old Law as it applied to the Hebrews in the OT was different and applied differently based on the old priesthood.

i'm not disputing you but there's one thing that people do a lot in these conversations. They collate the "Law" with mosiac law, with the old covenant. all three of those things are very very different. Christ referred to the psalms as the law, and thats because the word we translate in error as Law, is actually the word Teaching. if we refer to the teachings instead of the Law, it holds the connotation of nuance. we should remember that as believers, we aren't railing against a Law with consequences. we are working alongside a teaching, that holds perspective. the "law" as people call it, is very rarely comprised of rules, and very rarely comprised of covenants and consequences. The vast majority of this teaching is essentially how Yahh loves us actively through adversity.
not saying you don't know that, or that you stand in opposition, i just wanted to get this much on record.

 

[Ajaron]

I so wish people wouldn't keep repeating how some of what God tells us in the OT "doesn't apply". When God wrote the law into our hearts instead of giving physical things to do to represent them, people say those physical things "don't apply", and in a way they are right. But they are to be listened to, to see how they relate to spiritual commands. They came from God. It gives the impression to others that you are disregarding God when you keep speaking in this way. Why not say instead that there are commands we obey in a different way now? That would not be telling ourselves and others that it is fine to disobey the Lord in certain ways.

rom2'14-16 and jer31'31-34 agree with you

 

[AandW]

We have parallelisms from the OT to the NT that explain how Christ dealt with humanity before He became Christ and after He was Christ. We have distinct Scripture from the OT to testify that Christ is factually the Messiah. We have several symbols from the OT like the Tree of Life, the ram when Abraham was sacrificing Issac, Noah's Ark, Ark of the Covenant, the "Mercy Seat," 4th man with Shadrach-Meshach-Abednego, and more representing the Cross and the work accomplished upon the Cross. We have the Priesthood of Melchizedek from the OT connecting to Christ as our High Priest in the NT.

The list is long here why the OT is just as valuable as the NT.

 

[Dino246]

I so wish people wouldn't keep repeating how some of what God tells us in the OT "doesn't apply". When God wrote the law into our hearts instead of giving physical things to do to represent them, people say those physical things "don't apply", and in a way they are right. But they are to be listened to, to see how they relate to spiritual commands. They came from God. It gives the impression to others that you are disregarding God when you keep speaking in this way. Why not say instead that there are commands we obey in a different way now? That would not be telling ourselves and others that it is fine to disobey the Lord in certain ways.

We don’t “obey in a different way” the law against eating pork, or the law about the feast of booths, or tithing. Christians aren’t under the old covenant at all. The whole Bible is relevant but not written to Christians.

 

[soberxp]

We don’t “obey in a different way” the law against eating pork, or the law about the feast of booths, or tithing. Christians aren’t under the old covenant at all. The whole Bible is relevant but not written to Christians.

Seeing that the food( pork) is clean is like seeing that a woman never think about "prostitutes". Seeing that everything is clean.

 

[seed_time_harvest]

The law is fulfilled in Christ, but there is a subtlety in that. Not all of the OT commandments apply. But those that appear in the NT also have the correct context within the NT covenant. It is better to first look to the NT to find the commandments. It is true that all scripture can be used to teach, but some aspects of that teaching are for comparison. It is important to understand that an OT commandment has no standing unless it appears in the NT (and the NT provides the correct context for the commandments). It is important to understand that the old Law as it applied to the Hebrews in the OT was different and applied differently based on the old priesthood.

The law being the ten commandments done In their own strength and new covenant Grace where salvation Is offered without having to do any physical labor but by believing the WORD of GOD.Like Paul wrote ,Circumcise the heart which Is true change not the physical member which only Identified the person with Moses's law.

 

[Jocund]

The law being the ten commandments done In their own strength and new covenant Grace where salvation Is offered without having to do any physical labor but by believing the WORD of GOD.Like Paul wrote ,Circumcise the heart which Is true change not the physical member which only Identified the person with Moses's law.

There are two commandments more important than the NT iterations of the Mosaic laws. The first commandment is "love God" and the second is "love thy neighbour".

 

[Limey410v2]

Hello.

I have recieved many mixed messages from Christians regarding the OT. One on hand, many argue that the dietary laws, practises such as circumcision and obeying the Sabbath do not need to be observed. Many other Christians argue homosexuality should not be practised on the basis that it is forbidden in the OT.

Would anyone like to offer some clarity?

Thank you

The Law of Moses is a great teacher to bring us to Christ. Understanding that we are fully, totally and grossly unable to meet God's requirements under the law, hopefully brings us to more closely understand the full Love of God's redeeming Grace through Jesus Christ.

Continually attempting to fulfill Gods Law (whichever ones you wish to point to/choose to "obey" or "disobey") will show us as truly lacking, hopeless and unable and frankly minimizes the awesome sacrifice that God made on our behalf.

The issue is not understanding the Law or how it applies to us, broken up into sections that we find easy to obey, or palatable to whatever denomination of Christianity we chose, the issue is whether we accept God's gift of Grace to us that saves us from the penalty of the Law.

So many get caught up in all of the minutia of what Law applies, or doesn't apply.

Anything we can offer Him is insignificant to what He has done for us.

 

[Hevosmies]

The natural descendants that go from Abraham through Jacob.
Others, may claim 'jewishness'...until persecution starts.

This is a big problem indeed. As today we got white jews black jews latino jews. Will the real jews please stand up?

In the Bible: Jews are always getting mixed up with EGYPTIANS. Paul was mistaken for an egyptian. That should give us a CLUE on who the real jews are.
Dont know how that jives with all the redhaired pale white boys (from germany russia ireland) in Israel. HMM.........

 

[Jocund]

This is a big problem indeed. As today we got white jews black jews latino jews. Will the real jews please stand up?

In the Bible: Jews are always getting mixed up with EGYPTIANS. Paul was mistaken for an egyptian. That should give us a CLUE on who the real jews are.
Dont know how that jives with all the redhaired pale white boys (from germany russia ireland) in Israel. HMM.........

The appearance and heritage of old world Egyptians has been the subject of debate for some time but ultimately genealogy is unimportant and distracts from what scripture says. Who are the actual Israelites? Those in Christ.

"Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called. That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed." - Romans 9:6-8 KJV

 

[Nebuchadnezzer]

Hello.

I have recieved many mixed messages from Christians regarding the OT. One on hand, many argue that the dietary laws, practises such as circumcision and obeying the Sabbath do not need to be observed. Many other Christians argue homosexuality should not be practised on the basis that it is forbidden in the OT.

Would anyone like to offer some clarity?

Thank you

Old testament provides literal examples of spiritual truths that are revealed plainly in the new testament.

First example:
Jonah literally died when he was in the belly of a fish or whale and was born again when the fish or whale vomited him out. Jonah experienced a literal rebirth.
Now we who are born again are born again spiritually. We die to our old self and are born again to our new self in Christ. We believers experience a spiritual rebirth.

Second example:
In the Old testament the temple was a literal stone temple.
In new testament the temple is rebuilt as a spiritual temple of believers with Jesus as cornerstone. This is a spiritual truth that was consealed in the OT. .

Third Example:
Old Testament the land was a literal land called Israel, which was fought for and defended by a literal sword and armor.
New Testament the land is the church. The church is a spiritual land and is defended by the spiritual sword and armor that Paul describes in Ephesians 6.