Do catholics worship God or the pope?
- Thread starter Unearthed
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
The false claim that Catholic Church teaches the Pope is God comes from a misinterpretation of this document
https://www.papalencyclicals.net/Bon08/B8unam.htm by Seventh Day Adventists.
https://amazingdiscoveries.org/R-Pope_Rome_blasphemy_power_Jesus#footnotei
I checked the quotes in context, Most of them are not official catholic doctrine and the one's that are do not teach that the pope is God.
https://www.papalencyclicals.net/Bon08/B8unam.htm by Seventh Day Adventists.
https://amazingdiscoveries.org/R-Pope_Rome_blasphemy_power_Jesus#footnotei
I checked the quotes in context, Most of them are not official catholic doctrine and the one's that are do not teach that the pope is God.
Another source which is misunderstood is
"46. A great task also belongs to the consecrated life in the light of the teaching about the Church as communion, so strongly proposed by the Second Vatican Council. Consecrated persons are asked to be true experts of communion and to practise the spirituality of communionas "witnesses and architects of the plan for unity which is the crowning point of human history in God's design".The sense of ecclesial communion, developing into a spirituality of communion, promotes a way of thinking, speaking and acting which enables the Church to grow in depth and extension. The life of communion in fact "becomes a sign for all the world and a compelling force that leads people to faith in Christ ... In this way communion leads to mission, and itself becomes mission"; indeed, "communion begets communion: in essence it is a communion that is missionary". In founders and foundresses we see a constant and lively sense of the Church, which they manifest by their full participation in all aspects of the Church's life, and in their ready obedience to the Bishops and especially to the Roman Pontiff. Against this background of love towards Holy Church, "the pillar and bulwark of the truth" (1 Tim 3:15), we readily understand the devotion of Saint Francis of Assisi for "the Lord Pope",the daughterly outspokenness of Saint Catherine of Siena towards the one whom she called "sweet Christ on earth",the apostolic obedience and the sentire cum Ecclesia of Saint Ignatius Loyola,and the joyful profession of faith made by Saint Teresa of Avila: "I am a daughter of the Church".We can also understand the deep desire of Saint Theresa of the Child Jesus: "In the heart of the Church, my mother, I will be love".These testimonies are representative of the full ecclesial communion which the Saints, founders and foundresses, have shared in diverse and often difficult times and circumstances. "
https://www.vatican.va/content/john...ts/hf_jp-ii_exh_25031996_vita-consecrata.html
"Lord Pope" from the context fits better as "Master Pope" Not the Pope is God.
"46. A great task also belongs to the consecrated life in the light of the teaching about the Church as communion, so strongly proposed by the Second Vatican Council. Consecrated persons are asked to be true experts of communion and to practise the spirituality of communionas "witnesses and architects of the plan for unity which is the crowning point of human history in God's design".The sense of ecclesial communion, developing into a spirituality of communion, promotes a way of thinking, speaking and acting which enables the Church to grow in depth and extension. The life of communion in fact "becomes a sign for all the world and a compelling force that leads people to faith in Christ ... In this way communion leads to mission, and itself becomes mission"; indeed, "communion begets communion: in essence it is a communion that is missionary". In founders and foundresses we see a constant and lively sense of the Church, which they manifest by their full participation in all aspects of the Church's life, and in their ready obedience to the Bishops and especially to the Roman Pontiff. Against this background of love towards Holy Church, "the pillar and bulwark of the truth" (1 Tim 3:15), we readily understand the devotion of Saint Francis of Assisi for "the Lord Pope",the daughterly outspokenness of Saint Catherine of Siena towards the one whom she called "sweet Christ on earth",the apostolic obedience and the sentire cum Ecclesia of Saint Ignatius Loyola,and the joyful profession of faith made by Saint Teresa of Avila: "I am a daughter of the Church".We can also understand the deep desire of Saint Theresa of the Child Jesus: "In the heart of the Church, my mother, I will be love".These testimonies are representative of the full ecclesial communion which the Saints, founders and foundresses, have shared in diverse and often difficult times and circumstances. "
https://www.vatican.va/content/john...ts/hf_jp-ii_exh_25031996_vita-consecrata.html
"Lord Pope" from the context fits better as "Master Pope" Not the Pope is God.
And what is acknowledgement for? Just for legal purpose?
That is the lameness of legal system in religion
In one side Jesus focus in your heart, not what you can see. A person may donate big money, but if in his heart he do it for fame, it do not mean anything. Priest is human, how he know what is in his heart, it may look repent from out side but it may not inside.
That is the lameness of legal system in religion
In one side Jesus focus in your heart, not what you can see. A person may donate big money, but if in his heart he do it for fame, it do not mean anything. Priest is human, how he know what is in his heart, it may look repent from out side but it may not inside.
Jackson, you are rejecting history because it does not fit your beliefs. It is part of that History which books are in the Bible.
Did you catch on to that Peter was writing one of his Letters from Rome, Babylon?
The same people who wrote that history were the educated that preserved the NT for us by making copies by hand and sending such to churches to be read publically. Logically, if you do not trust their history that Peter and Paul where at some time in Rome, then there is no reason to believe the NT as part of the same history was preserved.
Did you catch on to that Peter was writing one of his Letters from Rome, Babylon?
The same people who wrote that history were the educated that preserved the NT for us by making copies by hand and sending such to churches to be read publically. Logically, if you do not trust their history that Peter and Paul where at some time in Rome, then there is no reason to believe the NT as part of the same history was preserved.
It is acknowledge by a Priest for likely the same reasons by a Pastor. To encourage the new convert in their walk with God.
And, in the Middle Ages it may have had a relationship with their Status in culture.
The Priest has Spiritual Gifts related to his calling or ministry. This is really not all that hard to understand friend.
Ephesians 4:11-13
Easy-to-Read Version
11 And that same Christ gave these gifts to people: He made some to be apostles, some to be prophets, some to go and tell the Good News, and some to care for and teach God’s people.[a] 12 Christ gave these gifts to prepare God’s holy people for the work of serving, to make the body of Christ stronger. 13 This work must continue until we are all joined together in what we believe and in what we know about the Son of God. Our goal is to become like a full-grown man—to look just like Christ and have all his perfection.
Ephesians 4:11-13
King James Version
11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
Jeremiah 23:2
Therefore thus saith the Lord God of Israel against the pastors that feed my people; Ye have scattered my flock, and driven them away, and have not visited them: behold, I will visit upon you the evil of your doings, saith the Lord.
And, in the Middle Ages it may have had a relationship with their Status in culture.
The Priest has Spiritual Gifts related to his calling or ministry. This is really not all that hard to understand friend.
Ephesians 4:11-13
Easy-to-Read Version
11 And that same Christ gave these gifts to people: He made some to be apostles, some to be prophets, some to go and tell the Good News, and some to care for and teach God’s people.[a] 12 Christ gave these gifts to prepare God’s holy people for the work of serving, to make the body of Christ stronger. 13 This work must continue until we are all joined together in what we believe and in what we know about the Son of God. Our goal is to become like a full-grown man—to look just like Christ and have all his perfection.
Ephesians 4:11-13
King James Version
11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
Jeremiah 23:2
Therefore thus saith the Lord God of Israel against the pastors that feed my people; Ye have scattered my flock, and driven them away, and have not visited them: behold, I will visit upon you the evil of your doings, saith the Lord.
I read history by Luke, in act, Paul in Rome not Peter. Peter wrote from Babylon not Rome. I know some people believe Babylon is another name of Rome, but Jews historian joshepus say people name Rome as Babylon after ad 70 because Rome destroy Jerusalem ad 70 like Babylon did.
And Peter die in ad 62 before Babylon named after Rome.
About history, I have experience what happen in my country in the years 1965.
According government history, communist kill 7 military general in sept 30 1965.
According to prof Bend Anderson from I think Chicago university, CIA did to overthrow president suekarno.
Western media backup prof Anderson, some time history is only politic propaganda
And Peter die in ad 62 before Babylon named after Rome.
About history, I have experience what happen in my country in the years 1965.
According government history, communist kill 7 military general in sept 30 1965.
According to prof Bend Anderson from I think Chicago university, CIA did to overthrow president suekarno.
Western media backup prof Anderson, some time history is only politic propaganda
Like I say, history is depend on who wrote. Sometime lie.
What is the reason you mention distance for? To prove peter in Rome?
Distance not prove anything. Luke wrote detail about Paul in Rome, he say when Paul in Rome ask Jews community about Jesus, they not sure, if Peter was there since AD 32 Jews must hear about Jesus, Paul there about AD 60 so after Peter the apostle for Jews there preach to Jews, jews not sure about who Jesus is?
What is the reason you mention distance for? To prove peter in Rome?
Distance not prove anything. Luke wrote detail about Paul in Rome, he say when Paul in Rome ask Jews community about Jesus, they not sure, if Peter was there since AD 32 Jews must hear about Jesus, Paul there about AD 60 so after Peter the apostle for Jews there preach to Jews, jews not sure about who Jesus is?
-
1
- Show all
It's funny how you people will all quote disgruntled sources and gossip, but you're refusing to *listen* to us real, live Catholics are saying.
The emphatic answer is we worship GOD.
All of this other nonsense people are dragging up is from wayward, disgruntled people or misquoted sources
The emphatic answer is we worship GOD.
All of this other nonsense people are dragging up is from wayward, disgruntled people or misquoted sources
-
1
-
1
- Show all
I'm going to post something we Catholics profess every single mass. Some of you may recognise it and even use it yourselves. For those who don't, it's called the Nicene Creed. This ancient profession of our faith goes right back to very early days of the church.
And before anyone says 'But you say you only believe in the Catholic church because you say it in this' Understand what the word 'Catholic' means. The correct ancient definition of the word is universal. As in for everyone.
Yes, we believe in one, Universal church. That means all of us. Roman Catholic, Orthodox, Lutheran, Episcopalian, Baptist, Presbyterian, Pentecostal and every other one of you that I haven't mentioned.
NICENE CREED (Professed at Sunday Mass)
"We believe in one God, the Father, the Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth, of all that is seen and
unseen.
We believe in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only Son of God, eternally begotten of the Father; God from
God, Light from Light, true God from true God; begotten not made, one in being with the Father.
Through Him all things were made. For us men and for our salvation He came down from heaven. By the
power of the Holy Spirit He was born of the Virgin Mary and became man. For our sake He was
crucified under Pontius Pilate. He suffered, died, and was buried. On the third day He rose again, in
fulfillment of the Scriptures. He ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father. He
will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead, and His kingdom will have no end.
We believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the Giver of life, who proceeds from the Father and the Son.
With the Father and the Son He is worshipped and glorified. He has spoken through the prophets.
We believe in one, holy, catholic, and apostolic Church. We acknowledge one baptism for the
forgiveness of sins. We look for the resurrection of the dead and the life of the world to come. Amen."
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...FjAJegQIFRAC&usg=AOvVaw2mKp5EgHImTcxw_P84IeXV
Etymology of the word Catholic
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...FjAJegQIFRAC&usg=AOvVaw2mKp5EgHImTcxw_P84IeXV
And before anyone says 'But you say you only believe in the Catholic church because you say it in this' Understand what the word 'Catholic' means. The correct ancient definition of the word is universal. As in for everyone.
Yes, we believe in one, Universal church. That means all of us. Roman Catholic, Orthodox, Lutheran, Episcopalian, Baptist, Presbyterian, Pentecostal and every other one of you that I haven't mentioned.
NICENE CREED (Professed at Sunday Mass)
"We believe in one God, the Father, the Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth, of all that is seen and
unseen.
We believe in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only Son of God, eternally begotten of the Father; God from
God, Light from Light, true God from true God; begotten not made, one in being with the Father.
Through Him all things were made. For us men and for our salvation He came down from heaven. By the
power of the Holy Spirit He was born of the Virgin Mary and became man. For our sake He was
crucified under Pontius Pilate. He suffered, died, and was buried. On the third day He rose again, in
fulfillment of the Scriptures. He ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father. He
will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead, and His kingdom will have no end.
We believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the Giver of life, who proceeds from the Father and the Son.
With the Father and the Son He is worshipped and glorified. He has spoken through the prophets.
We believe in one, holy, catholic, and apostolic Church. We acknowledge one baptism for the
forgiveness of sins. We look for the resurrection of the dead and the life of the world to come. Amen."
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...FjAJegQIFRAC&usg=AOvVaw2mKp5EgHImTcxw_P84IeXV
Etymology of the word Catholic
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...FjAJegQIFRAC&usg=AOvVaw2mKp5EgHImTcxw_P84IeXV
If we're going to split hairs, then you are of course technically correct. The full name of our Church is Roman Catholic. However, I am not sure if you are aware of this, but when I was last fully involved in the church it was still under Pope John Paul 2. He used to call us to prayer for reunification of the catholic churches a lot. I guess the stubbornness of men is what keeps us apart.
As a regular believer though I have visited a few Orthodox churches and to me personally, they feel just as much of a home to me as the RCC ones. So while Pontiffs and Bishops may argue doctrine and where the true seat of the ancient church lays, to me the Orthodox are true brothers who's faith is on the same level ours us ie we 'get' each other.
As a regular believer though I have visited a few Orthodox churches and to me personally, they feel just as much of a home to me as the RCC ones. So while Pontiffs and Bishops may argue doctrine and where the true seat of the ancient church lays, to me the Orthodox are true brothers who's faith is on the same level ours us ie we 'get' each other.
Acts 28
Paul in Rome
16 When we came to Rome, Paul was allowed to live alone. But a soldier stayed with him to guard him.
17 Three days later Paul sent for some of the most important Jews. When they came together, he said, “My brothers, I have done nothing against our people or against the customs of our fathers. But I was arrested in Jerusalem and handed over to the Romans. 18 They asked me many questions, but they could not find any reason why I should be put to death. So they wanted to let me go free. 19 But the Jews there did not want that. So I had to ask to come to Rome to have my trial before Caesar. That doesn’t mean I am accusing my people of doing anything wrong. 20 That is why I wanted to see you and talk with you. I am bound with this chain because I believe in the hope of Israel.”
21 The Jews answered Paul, “We have received no letters from Judea about you. None of our Jewish brothers who have traveled from there brought news about you or told us anything bad about you. 22 We want to hear your ideas. We know that people everywhere are speaking against this new group.”
23 Paul and the Jews chose a day for a meeting. On that day many more of these Jews met with Paul at his house. He spoke to them all day long, explaining God’s kingdom to them. He used the Law of Moses and the writings of the prophets to persuade them to believe in Jesus. 24 Some of the Jews believed what he said, but others did not believe. 25 They had an argument among themselves and were ready to leave. But Paul said one more thing to them: “The Holy Spirit spoke the truth to your fathers through Isaiah the prophet. He said,
26 ‘Go to this people and tell them:
You will listen and you will hear,
but you will not understand.
You will look and you will see,
but you will not understand what you see.
27 Yes, the minds of these people are now closed.
They have ears, but they don’t listen.
They have eyes, but they refuse to see.
If their minds were not closed,
they might see with their eyes;
they might hear with their ears;
they might understand with their minds.
Then they might turn back to me and be healed.’
28 “I want you Jews to know that God has sent his salvation to the non-Jewish people. They will listen!” 29 [e]
30 Paul stayed two full years in his own rented house. He welcomed all the people who came and visited him. 31 He told them about God’s kingdom and taught them about the Lord Jesus Christ. He was very bold, and no one tried to stop him from speaking.
The historical sources say Paul and Peter was in Rome. So, no surprise paul is speaking to Jewish leaders. It is possible Peter would be evangeline average jewish people. Paul was making his defence concerning to the Jewish leaders.
Paul in Rome
16 When we came to Rome, Paul was allowed to live alone. But a soldier stayed with him to guard him.
17 Three days later Paul sent for some of the most important Jews. When they came together, he said, “My brothers, I have done nothing against our people or against the customs of our fathers. But I was arrested in Jerusalem and handed over to the Romans. 18 They asked me many questions, but they could not find any reason why I should be put to death. So they wanted to let me go free. 19 But the Jews there did not want that. So I had to ask to come to Rome to have my trial before Caesar. That doesn’t mean I am accusing my people of doing anything wrong. 20 That is why I wanted to see you and talk with you. I am bound with this chain because I believe in the hope of Israel.”
21 The Jews answered Paul, “We have received no letters from Judea about you. None of our Jewish brothers who have traveled from there brought news about you or told us anything bad about you. 22 We want to hear your ideas. We know that people everywhere are speaking against this new group.”
23 Paul and the Jews chose a day for a meeting. On that day many more of these Jews met with Paul at his house. He spoke to them all day long, explaining God’s kingdom to them. He used the Law of Moses and the writings of the prophets to persuade them to believe in Jesus. 24 Some of the Jews believed what he said, but others did not believe. 25 They had an argument among themselves and were ready to leave. But Paul said one more thing to them: “The Holy Spirit spoke the truth to your fathers through Isaiah the prophet. He said,
26 ‘Go to this people and tell them:
You will listen and you will hear,
but you will not understand.
You will look and you will see,
but you will not understand what you see.
27 Yes, the minds of these people are now closed.
They have ears, but they don’t listen.
They have eyes, but they refuse to see.
If their minds were not closed,
they might see with their eyes;
they might hear with their ears;
they might understand with their minds.
Then they might turn back to me and be healed.’
28 “I want you Jews to know that God has sent his salvation to the non-Jewish people. They will listen!” 29 [e]
30 Paul stayed two full years in his own rented house. He welcomed all the people who came and visited him. 31 He told them about God’s kingdom and taught them about the Lord Jesus Christ. He was very bold, and no one tried to stop him from speaking.
The historical sources say Paul and Peter was in Rome. So, no surprise paul is speaking to Jewish leaders. It is possible Peter would be evangeline average jewish people. Paul was making his defence concerning to the Jewish leaders.