Do catholics worship God or the pope?

[Mark47Oz]

I have. The order of authority for Catholics is: the clergy , traditiion, and lastly, the bible.

Around 300 AD when Constantine took power, he (Constantine) declared himself vicar of Christ ( Christ's representative on earth) and therefore infallible, declared the Church in Rome as the official Church of his empire, and instituted baby baptism so that newborns would be baptized into the Roman Catholic Church and be under his rule.
When Constantine was defeated and no longer in power, the pope at that time still had control over the people and declared himself Christ's vicar on earth with infallibility. Going against Roman Catholic doctrines resulted in condemnation to hell as a heretic, ostracism by the Roman Catholic populous, and excommunication from the Roman Catholic Church. The Roman Catholic Church got so powerful that ruling monarchs employed church leaders such as cardinals, bishops, etc. to help them control the people.
The Medieval Inquisition took place from the 12th century to the 15th century . During that time the Roman Catholic Church wanted to keep the people ignorant and forbade the possessions of Bibles. People caught with bibles were thrown in jail with the heretics , were persecuted and even killed. Estimates of the number killed by the Spanish Inquisition range from 30,000 to millions.
Here is something even most Catholics are unaware of. From 1378 to 1417 was the Great Western Schism. The Italian and French cardinals in Rome elect a French cardinal as Pope. The French Pope decides to move to France and set up the new Catholic headquarters there. The Italian cardinals are furious, condemn and excommunicate the French Pope and all his followers, and elect another Pope but this time Italian. The French Pope condemns and excommunicates the Italian Pope and his following as well.

You're talking the history of the church, not the catechism. And schisms are nothing new. Germany is on the verge of another Schism over gay marriage.

And your view on Catholics being Bible ignorant is so 1876 🤣

The catechism is the belief system of the church and it's their interpretation of the Bible put into practical use. I've already stated how the Bible is read at every mass and that the Eucharist is a literal and direct interpretation of the words and act Jesus at the last supper. And yes, we do have Bible study both for kids and adults.

The correct order of importance for our faith is; Prayer and fasting, regular participation in the sacraments of the Holy Eucharist and repentance, obedience to the teachings of the church.

 

[Jackson123]

Okay, Mary specifically, no there is not
It's ancient church tradition and you will find evidence of right back to the oldest known churches and tombs.

And then there's the very long history of her appearing to Christians to guide them in their walk with Jesus that goes right back and is still happening to this very day.

So our 'proof' that you're looking for is not in the Bible, but at the same time there's a massive body of evidence from the last 2000 years since it was written. That and the fact that the fruits of her interaction with Christians is to bring greater love and devotion to Jesus.

But as I said, belief in her is entirely optional and as long as you eyes and heart are on Jesus you're on the path to salvation.

Ancient tradition of the church is the book of act, and there isn't teaching to pray to Mary.

 

[justahumanbeing]

As the title says: do catholics worship God or the pope?

Do they allow the pope to come between them and God?

Catholics gather to worship in the Mass. During the Mass, there are two Bible passages that are read by lay Catholics. Usually one from the Old Testament and another from the new. Then the priest who ministers will read a passage from the Gospel. This is followed by a sermon.

Then they celebrate the Eucharist where they receive The body and blood of Christ.

This is usually followed by Church announcements and the final blessing.

That is their basic way of worship. It is ritualistic as Christians would know it or would have heard of it.

The pope is considered the shepherd of the Catholic Church. A leader if you will. Nowhere in Catholic dogma does it say that the pope is God.

To think that Catholics worship the pope is wrong. Because they don't. No Catholic friend of mine that I know of would say that he or she worships the Pope. The Pope is an authority figure and even a political figure head. He is not God even according to Catholics.

Catholic dogma teaches the Trinity as God. Father, Son and The Holy Spirit. Mary is not considered any part of the Trinity and therefore is not God.

So when a Christian approaches a Catholic and tells them, "you worship the pope. You worship Mary and the saints." From their point of view, you will be coming off as being slanderous.

This is what a Catholic friend of mine shared with me when I had a discussion with him about this.

 

[Mark47Oz]

Ancient tradition of the church is the book of act, and there isn't teaching to pray to Mary.

2000 years of things like this video below tell a slightly different story. What you need to know is that in the very early days of the church both Marys were massively popular - Mary the Mother of Christ and Mary Magdelene. But old society was also sexist and patriarchal and therefore females were unfortunately considered to be little more than cattle by many. As a result teachings were removed and repressed. The same thing happened to Jesus himself - try finding a single Roman record on him. There aren't any. Nor are there of the Roman governor Pontius Pilate whom sent to to be crucified. That's' how Romans dealt with things they didn't agree with - they destroyed all records and persecuted anyone who spoke of it in the hope that people would soon forget.

This video is from the Coptic church (not RCC) in Egypt and this event was even witnessed and declared to be the real deal by it's president. Think what you will, but she just keeps on popping up if you know where to look.

 

[Mark47Oz]

This video should address the questions surrounding Mary and the Saints.

 

[Jackson123]

2000 years of things like this video below tell a slightly different story. What you need to know is that in the very early days of the church both Marys were massively popular - Mary the Mother of Christ and Mary Magdelene. But old society was also sexist and patriarchal and therefore females were unfortunately considered to be little more than cattle by many. As a result teachings were removed and repressed. The same thing happened to Jesus himself - try finding a single Roman record on him. There aren't any. Nor are there of the Roman governor Pontius Pilate whom sent to to be crucified. That's' how Romans dealt with things they didn't agree with - they destroyed all records and persecuted anyone who spoke of it in the hope that people would soon forget.

This video is from the Coptic church (not RCC) in Egypt and this event was even witnessed and declared to be the real deal by it's president. Think what you will, but she just keeps on popping up if you know where to look.

How do we know that is the real Mary?
In my country, Indonesia, shaman able to do similar

 

[Mark47Oz]

How do we know that is the real Mary?
In my country, Indonesia, shaman able to do similar

You test

How do we know that is the real Mary?
In my country, Indonesia, shaman able to do similar

That's a great question. And yes, you're 100% correct, shamans etc can and do conjure spirits. There's a great story in the old testament where Moses battles the priests of Egypt and the plagues befall the Egyptian people. It's an important lesson that Satan can imitate God, but in the end, God is more powerful.

So, a few things with Mary and how to discern:

#1) I shared with you an event that has been investigated by the Coptic church of Egypt and proclaimed to be worthy of belief. So, when looking at historical cases it's essential to check if the church has approved them or not. The church takes a very skeptical view at first and thoroughly tests the claim of the vision and waits to see what fruit they bear.

#2) You can't conjure Mary. She appears by the will and Grace of God, not human desire.

#3) She will last you closer to Jesus than you've ever been before. If she leads you away, then it's not her.

#4) You'll experience Joy and peace on a level you never thought possible. And it will stick with you for your entire life.

#5) Anything she says must be in tune with biblical teaching. Mary can add knowledge that we never previously had, but it must never contradict what we already know. And anything she she might reveal must lead you to Jesus.

#6) Because she's working for God, under his authority she will not make excessive and impossible demands. This applies to what you told me about your neighbour fasting to the point she had to be taken to hospital. That's not something that she would so, because God promises to never burden is with more than we can handle.

 

[TheLearner]

As the title says: do catholics worship God or the pope?

Worship God, respects church leaders like Paul told Christians to do.

Do they allow the pope to come between them and God?

No

As Catholic friends have told me, there is one mediator between us and God, Jesus.

 

[Jackson123]

You test

That's a great question. And yes, you're 100% correct, shamans etc can and do conjure spirits. There's a great story in the old testament where Moses battles the priests of Egypt and the plagues befall the Egyptian people. It's an important lesson that Satan can imitate God, but in the end, God is more powerful.

So, a few things with Mary and how to discern:

#1) I shared with you an event that has been investigated by the Coptic church of Egypt and proclaimed to be worthy of belief. So, when looking at historical cases it's essential to check if the church has approved them or not. The church takes a very skeptical view at first and thoroughly tests the claim of the vision and waits to see what fruit they bear.

#2) You can't conjure Mary. She appears by the will and Grace of God, not human desire.

#3) She will last you closer to Jesus than you've ever been before. If she leads you away, then it's not her.

#4) You'll experience Joy and peace on a level you never thought possible. And it will stick with you for your entire life.

#5) Anything she says must be in tune with biblical teaching. Mary can add knowledge that we never previously had, but it must never contradict what we already know. And anything she she might reveal must lead you to Jesus.

#6) Because she's working for God, under his authority she will not make excessive and impossible demands. This applies to what you told me about your neighbour fasting to the point she had to be taken to hospital. That's not something that she would so, because God promises to never burden is with more than we can handle.

Base on the Bible, to me never in the Bible Mary spirit talk to living man

 

[Unearthed]

No

As Catholic friends have told me, there is one mediator between us and God, Jesus.

Good.

Do catholics believe that the pope can forgive sins?

 

[Mark47Oz]

Base on the Bible, to me never in the Bible Mary spirit talk to living man

And that's why I will never ever state that you must believe in her to achieve salvation.

Jesus is the redeemer and our saviour and as long as you're focused on him, you're all good.

But, you asked, so I answered 🙂

 

[Jackson123]

And that's why I will never ever state that you must believe in her to achieve salvation.

Jesus is the redeemer and our saviour and as long as you're focused on him, you're all good.
Setia
But, you asked, so I answered 🙂

Yep, I agree, pray to God not human spirit. Worship God, not human and Jesus is God.

 

[TheLearner]

Good.

Do catholics believe that the pope can forgive sins?

Luke 15:10
J.B. Phillips New Testament
8-10 “Or if there is a woman who has ten silver coins, if she should lose one, won’t she take a lamp and sweep and search the house from top to bottom until she finds it? And when she has found it, she calls her friends and neighbours together. ‘Come and celebrate with me’, she says, ‘for I have found that coin I lost.’ I tell you, it is the same in Heaven—there is rejoicing among the angels of God over one sinner whose heart is changed.”

Matthew 16:19
Holman Christian Standard Bible
19 I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth is already bound[a] in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth is already loosed in heaven.”

A Catholic Priest and Protestant Pastor which includes the Pope simply recognize what has already happened in heaven.
A person repents when hearing the Gospel. The event is celebrated in heaven. Humans on planet earth simply recognizes the change.

 

[Mark47Oz]

Luke 15:10
J.B. Phillips New Testament
8-10 “Or if there is a woman who has ten silver coins, if she should lose one, won’t she take a lamp and sweep and search the house from top to bottom until she finds it? And when she has found it, she calls her friends and neighbours together. ‘Come and celebrate with me’, she says, ‘for I have found that coin I lost.’ I tell you, it is the same in Heaven—there is rejoicing among the angels of God over one sinner whose heart is changed.”

Matthew 16:19
Holman Christian Standard Bible
19 I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth is already bound[a] in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth is already loosed in heaven.”

A Catholic Priest and Protestant Pastor which includes the Pope simply recognize what has already happened in heaven.
A person repents when hearing the Gospel. The event is celebrated in heaven. Humans on planet earth simply recognizes the change.

Great answer! 😃

 

[Jackson123]

Luke 15:10
J.B. Phillips New Testament
8-10 “Or if there is a woman who has ten silver coins, if she should lose one, won’t she take a lamp and sweep and search the house from top to bottom until she finds it? And when she has found it, she calls her friends and neighbours together. ‘Come and celebrate with me’, she says, ‘for I have found that coin I lost.’ I tell you, it is the same in Heaven—there is rejoicing among the angels of God over one sinner whose heart is changed.”

Matthew 16:19
Holman Christian Standard Bible
19 I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth is already bound[a] in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth is already loosed in heaven.”

A Catholic Priest and Protestant Pastor which includes the Pope simply recognize what has already happened in heaven.
A person repents when hearing the Gospel. The event is celebrated in heaven. Humans on planet earth simply recognizes the change.

Quote

The church's granted indulgences reduce the time Catholics believe they will have to spend in purgatory after they have confessed and been absolved of their sins.

The remissions got a bad name in the Middle Ages because unscrupulous churchmen sold them for large sums of money. But now indulgences are being applied to the 21st century.

End quote

If it is true, why only reduce, not remove at all?

 

[Lanolin]

indulgences sounds like a bribe or bail.

I always thought that the prison system seemed based on the RCC.

Not something most law abiding citizens need to be concerned with, but then there are some really silly laws that most people dont understand anyway.

 

[Mark47Oz]

Quote

The church's granted indulgences reduce the time Catholics believe they will have to spend in purgatory after they have confessed and been absolved of their sins.

The remissions got a bad name in the Middle Ages because unscrupulous churchmen sold them for large sums of money. But now indulgences are being applied to the 21st century.

End quote

If it is true, why only reduce, not remove at all?

Because it was a lie in the first place.

You can't bribe your way into heaven. God is not corrupt, but humans are.

There have been multiple bad Popes through the ages. For a time the papacy followed a sort of blood lineage with nephews of the seated Pope being his successors. There are stories of them having mistresses and even children running around the Vatican during these days.

If you take the tour of the Vatican, you'll pass through apartments where the walls are covered in cloth to hide the artwork and history on the walls of these bad pontiffs.

The RCC has a lot of dirty laundry. It's true. All of it relates to the failure of humans to follow the word of Christ. A good Catholic will be aware of all this but stays because of the beliefs in Christ, not the corruption, which continues to this day.

 

[Jackson123]

Because it was a lie in the first place.

You can't bribe your way into heaven. God is not corrupt, but humans are.

There have been multiple bad Popes through the ages. For a time the papacy followed a sort of blood lineage with nephews of the seated Pope being his successors. There are stories of them having mistresses and even children running around the Vatican during these days.

If you take the tour of the Vatican, you'll pass through apartments where the walls are covered in cloth to hide the artwork and history on the walls of these bad pontiffs.

The RCC has a lot of dirty laundry. It's true. All of it relates to the failure of humans to follow the word of Christ. A good Catholic will be aware of all this but stays because of the beliefs in Christ, not the corruption, which continues to this day.

So, a lot of bad pope. That is why the believe that pope is Peter successor is wrong. The believe pope have authority to forgive sin is wrong too.

 

[Mark47Oz]

So, a lot of bad pope. That is why the believe that pope is Peter successor is wrong. The believe pope have authority to forgive sin is wrong too.

You're mixing a free different topics up here now.

I've already shown how the Papacy traces back to Peter, whom Jesus said 'You are my rock' to. You've debated that Paul was greater and the true father in if the church. The actual truth lies in the middle - Jesus is the founder of Christianity. It's named after him and everything.

The Pope's authority for forgiving sins is no greater than a priests and I'm not sure where you're getting the idea that we think anything different from. What you've presented is old history and considered heresy by us Catholics.

What you need to understand is while you're having a wonderful time going through all the dirty laundry of the RCC, and there is a LOT of it. You're completely ignoring the fact that Protestantism is not without its dirty secrets either.

 

[Jackson123]

I've already shown how the Papacy traces back to Peter,

You say some pope are bad, how you believe that bad pope is God ordained as Peter successor?

Protestant may have dirty loundry, that is why my Christian believe in Jesus and the Bible as His word, not on the church.