How We Can Tell If We Possess The Agape of God

[Phoneman-777]

am i to gather from your evasion that you don't know what you're planning to endure in or how you're going to manage to do that?

IOW you don't know how to be saved?

friend, you came to the right place; we can tell you about salvation.

The only thing you can teach me about salvation is how to sever the bond between the saint and the One from Whom he receives it.

As stated before, we can't periodically disconnect ourselves from the Vine, go down to the street to Satan's Holly wood tree, and graft ourselves in - as if both God and Satan have joint custody - and continue to call ourselves "saints".

 

[CorrectiveLens]

And when he does wallow in it they are not happy.

No! If he wallows in his sin, then he is not a true Christian.

 

[Phoneman-777]

Wrong again, only the 10 commandments were handwritten by God

When was I wrong about that? Of course, He wrote only the Ten Commandments - because he didn't trust even MOSES To write them.

And God never complained that the Jews failed keeping feasts and observing ceremonies, God complained that they kept the feasts and observed the ceremonies but they broke the law and lived like pagans.

Every Feast Day was a "sabbath" and a "holy convocation" where they were to "do no servile work". Are you telling me there were no penalties for breaking those Feast Day "sabbaths"?

 

[posthuman]

You forfeited your chance to ask me questions when you refused to answer mine. I've been waiting weeks for you to dig up that verse which says the wicked can obtain agape from God.

As soon as you admit "agapao" and "agape" do not mean the same thing and that the Bible no where says the wicked can obtain agape, then you can talk to me about "squirming", OK?

previously discussed and thoroughly answered not only by myself but several other members with scripture, with reason, with reference to church dogma & established theologians representing her. both Christ and His apostles refute your position, but you categorically reject what God says about it. in brief, you're wrong about the language, and we've already covered it. no one here believes you over God.

why do you keep dodging such a simple and obvious question that the whole thread topic rests on?

what explicitly do you figure you yourself are going to endure in and and how do you yourself expect to endure in it, that you may be saved from hell?

 

[Phoneman-777]

No! If he wallows in his sin, then he is not a true Christian.

What if the person who now wallows in sin used to once be a grace saved, washed in the blood, born again, child of God?

Will you say he was "never saved" when God has equipped no one with the ability to look upon another's heart? Just a reminder that "judge not" not only applies to judging another's eternal destiny, it also prohibits judging past and present motives.

 

[posthuman]

how to sever the bond between the saint and the One from Whom he receives it.

IOW you don't believe in actual salvation; you believe in fake lying false illusion of salvation that isn't salvation at all but only ephemeral temporary deception that almost looks like salvation on the outside. yeah we know.

so what do you think you're going to endure in and how do you think you're going to endure in it?
simple question.

 

[Phoneman-777]

previously discussed and thoroughly answered not only by myself but several other members and historical & leading examples of theologians cited.
why do you keep dodging such a simple and obvious question that the whole thread topic rests on?

what explicitly do you figure you yourself are going to endure in and and how do you yourself expect to endure in it, that you may be saved from hell?

Can you point to a single verse in all of the Bible where the wicked are said to obtain "agape" from God as it time and time again says so concerning the saints?

[ ] YES

[ ] NO

 

[posthuman]

Can you point to a single verse in all of the Bible where the wicked are said to obtain "agape" from God as it time and time again does so concerning the saints?

[ ] YES

[ ] NO

previously discussed and inescapable conclusion reached. John 13:34-35. the words of the LORD God of all creation rebuke you.

so quit trying to deflect and please answer this simple, direct, obvious question:

• what specifically do you tell yourself you're going to endure in and how do you tell yourself you are going to endure in it?

 

[Phoneman-777]

IOW you don't believe in actual salvation; you believe in fake lying false illusion of salvation that isn't salvation at all but only ephemeral temporary deception that almost looks like salvation on the outside. yeah we know.
?
so what do you think you're going to endure in and how do you think you're going to endure in it?
simple question.

Affections forced upon another is not love....it's rape. God is a Divine Gentleman and never forces anyone to stay who wishes to go.

Of course, the OSAS License to Sin crowd always says with an air of feigned incredulity and condescension, "Why would anyone want to leave God?" -- even though when it comes to a relationship with Him, the Bible says of our consideration of it that we should "count the cost", "put our hand to the plow and not look back", "remember Lot's wife", "endure to the end", "be faithful unto death", "if any man draw back, My soul shall have no pleasure in him", etc., etc., etc.

Too bad the Bible writers didn't know about OSAS because they could have saved themselves a lot of trouble and ink

 

[Phoneman-777]

previously discussed and inescapable conclusion reached. John 13:34-35. the words of the LORD God of all creation rebuke you.

so quit trying to deflect and please answer this simple, direct, obvious question:

• what specifically do you tell yourself you're going to endure in and how do you tell yourself you are going to endure in it?

I'm going to look up the word "love" in John 13:34-35 KJV and if it does not specifically use the word "agape" and show where the wicked can obtain it from God, we're done. Checking now.


EDIT: Just as I thought...this attributes "agape" to the SAINTS, not the wicked. Nice knowing you.

 

[BenFTW]

there is ZERO hoops through which to jump in order to show that OSAS's claim that there's nothing the saint can say, do, or think that can cause him to cease to be a saint means he has a License to Sin..it's written in the very NAME of this flawed theology, is it not?

Here’s an idea 💡: What if you do (have a license)? Say that Jesus’ blood actually covers/takes away all sin (truly it does, but we are treating it as a hypothetical) and no matter how much you sin you will not be condemned to Hell for your sin. Does that make you want to go out and sin all you want? Does that make you want to forsake God and His righteous ways of love and peace, that you may entertain sin and it’s deathly consequences?

No. Why? You are a new creation in Christ Jesus, with new desires, a new heart, and a changed mind through the renewing of your mind as the Lord leads you into all truth. For you to sin it is like a fish out of water; it doesn’t belong. No longer a slave of sin, but of righteousness.

So, even with a “license to sin” you have no interest in taking up that offer because that is no longer who you are. It’s as if you hated broccoli 🥦 and I placed in front of you a bowl filled to the brim with it and said, “Eat until you are satisfied.” Firstly, you do not desire it but secondly if you ate it, it would not satisfy you. Much like sin, that broccoli might be covered in cheese, and for a moment you may enjoy it’s savor but quickly be reminded of it’s true taste. You don’t like it.

Can you see how God’s grace towards our sin then is not dismissive but rather corrective? Have you heard of consequence? We may yet choose to sin but we taste it’s bitterness and are reminded that we don’t like it. We much prefer righteousness and this is where no condemnation comes into play. “You learned your lesson, now repent. Change your way, change your thinking. You are righteous now.”

A license to sin does not incentivize the righteous to sin. As scripture says, “Do not be deceived, the righteous commit righteousness.” Grace simply allows growth, maturity. It permits a person to fall and then rise. It makes room for error and correction.

 

[posthuman]

i will endure in faith because the One who calls me is faithful; He will do it.
He will not fail to complete the work which He began in me. He is True & no one who puts their hope in Him will be ashamed.

how hard is that to confess?
apparently some people would rather die.

 

[BenFTW]

i will endure in faith because the One who calls me is faithful; He will do it.
He will not fail to complete the work which He began in me. He is True & no one who puts their hope in Him will be ashamed.

how hard is that to confess?
apparently some people would rather die.

Guy is hanging off of a cliff (death is certain) and a strongman comes by, grabs his hand, and lifts him up. The guy who was hanging then boasts, “Did you see how tightly I held on to the strongman’s hand!?” 😆

 

[Ogom]

But the way of truth that’s leads to life is not found in self-righteous (no matter how good it is to be a righteous man) but it is found in the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus Christ. There is no addition to the Gospel of Christ, there is no debt owed to us by God for the path we keep, but all in all, Christ is the preeminence. We have nothing to boast in but Christ Himself.

yes, it is not about our self, but Christ. a becoming.

he who seeks Christ, finds Him. He who desires fellowship with Truth, seeks it.

he who rests in Christ (Truth) finds peace. he who exalts himself is farther away from (complete) Truth.

He who exalts all that is right and good -- the same will be greatly exalted by God.

he who exalts things right and good but does not yet understand other ways of looking at things yet also right and good -- draws close to God in whatever good he brings forth in his life and in others.

not the one who mostly only believes on Christ but instead does not become much and/or does not tell others they should become much either (lukewarm),

but the one who becomes and believes in becoming -- this is the one who finds more Truth (the Way).

or said another way -- the one who believes (more) in Truth (the Way, the Truth, and the Life) draws nearer to God (Truth).

he who does not believe very much in Truth (the Way, the Truth, and the Life) does not find much Life.

Colossians 1:15-22 King James Version
15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.
19 For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;
20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.
21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled
22 In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:

 

[CorrectiveLens]

What if the person who now wallows in sin used to once be a grace saved, washed in the blood, born again, child of God?

Will you say he was "never saved" when God has equipped no one with the ability to look upon another's heart? Just a reminder that "judge not" not only applies to judging another's eternal destiny, it also prohibits judging past and present motives.

If a implies not b, then b implies not a ( where a is the statement: a person wallows in sin and b is the statement: the person is a Christian.).
If a implies not b, then b implies not a If a person wallows in sin,
then the person is not a Christian

The contrapositive of the statement " a implies not b is b implies not a." In logic, if a conditional statement is true, then so is its contrapositive. Both " If a person wallows in sin, then he is not a Christian" and " If a person is a Christian, then he does not wallow in sin) are both true.

You are saying that " if a implies not b is true, then b implies a" . In other words: If a person who wallows in sin is not a Christian, then a person who is a Christian can wallow in sin. Very Illogical.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

If a implies not b, then b implies not a ( where a is the statement: a person wallows in sin and b is the statement: the person is a Christian.).
If a implies not b, then b implies not a If a person wallows in sin,
then the person is not a Christian

The contrapositive of the statement " a implies not b is b implies not a." In logic, if a conditional statement is true, then so is its contrapositive. Both " If a person wallows in sin, then he is not a Christian" and " If a person is a Christian, then he does not wallow in sin) are both true.

You are saying that " if a implies not b is true, then b implies a" . In other words: If a person who wallows in sin is not a Christian, then a person who is a Christian can wallow in sin. Very Illogical.

I would just look to John

he who sins has never seen God or known God

He who is born of God can not sin because he has been born of God.

then there are no question.

a person who wallows in sin has never seen or known God, so he could never have been saved, because if he was saved, he could not wallow in sin because he has been born of God,

these are facts. Found in scripture

why or how a person can not live on sinl that’s another subject. But the how and why does not take away fro the facts,

 

[posthuman]

I'm going to look up the word "love" in John 13:34-35 KJV and if it does not specifically use the word "agape" and show where the wicked can obtain it from God, we're done. Checking now.


EDIT: Just as I thought...this attributes "agape" to the SAINTS, not the wicked. Nice knowing you.

i realize you reject God's words, but do you so quickly forget them, also?

in John 13:34-35 God Himself equivocates 'agapao' ((the Greek root word, grammatically a verb 'to love')) with 'agape' ((the derived grammatical noun form of agapao)).
it's only your human tradition that, for the sake of seeking to condemn God's servants, that insists there is a ideological difference in meaning between the substance and the carrying out of that substance. God Himself disagrees with you.
-- and we can find many places where the lost express agape towards the things of the world, e.g. they love ((put agape into action)) darkness rather than light, John 3:19

similarly you love darkness rather than light on this subject -- we all see that evidenced extremely clearly here.
but just because you reject the Word of God, do not feign ignorance in order to continue to avoid the simple, relevant, obvious question regarding Matthew 24:

endure to the end in what and how?

 

[BillG]

I just responded to Posthuman...any thoughts on that?

Cannot see what relevance that has to do with what I asked you.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Cannot see what relevance that has to do with what I asked you.

Sadly brother bill, relevance doesn’t not matter to certain people

 

[kaylagrl]

This post is about how we can tell we have the agape of God (1 John 5:3 KJV), which the "many" saints of Matthew 24:12 KJV absolutely once had warm and alive within them before it turned cold and dead and they wound up lost. How about we discuss that?

I've never ever heard someone use agape without the word love with it. If you quit blowin' at the fur and get to the hide, what's you're point? And before you start, no I don't believe in OSAS. But I have many friends that do and I love and respect them in the Lord.