How We Can Tell If We Possess The Agape of God

[Phoneman-777]

Please clarify the above please

I just responded to Posthuman...any thoughts on that?

 

[Phoneman-777]

@posthuman

See, this is revealing. He is basically asking, “Why do you need God’s grace when the commandments are not burdensome?” It helps you understand where he is coming from. Adherence to righteousness is necessary for salvation, sums up his belief.

Now, that's just dishonest. I've said over and over the Just Man needs God's grace to lift him from the pit of sin if he falls in.

What OSAS wants is grace bestowed on the Presumptuous Man who climbs down into the pit, sits down among the filth, swats away the uplifting hand of Jesus, and flashes his OSAS License to Sin in His face...Jesus can't cover such a man with His grace.

 

[BenFTW]

And when he does wallow in it they are not happy.

And then God comforts them and exposes to them why it is that they have sought comfort in sin instead of Him. He restores. 😁

 

[posthuman]

The issue here is not my understanding of what a "saint" is...it's the OSAS crowd's understanding.

I've shown you that agape is only attributed to the righteous, because it's demonstrated by keeping the Ten Commandments, which the Bible says the wicked cannot do...AND...not one time in Scripture is the word ever attributed to the wicked.

Therefore, the "many" -- whose fate is contrasted with those which "endure to the end" and are "saved" -- allow widespread iniquity to cause their agape to grow "cold", which is even more hopeless a condition than the "lukewarm" Laodiceans who are rejected by God (unless they repent, that is).

So, OSAS now finds itself arguing the wicked are capable of receiving agape from God so the "many" can be wicked...OR...it must argue that the "many" are saints and that "cold" agape is no threat to a saint's salvation (though lukewarm is cause for rejection) which totally renders the passage incredibly unnecessary because, "WHO CARES, Lord Jesus, if agape grows cold or stays hot if in the end, all wind up saved???"

Of course, we've got this other idea that the "many" refers to "physical tribulation-period bodies" that endure to the end and saved, although Jesus spent 3 1/2 years telling us we need spiritual salvation, not to worry what man does to this body, and that if we're faithful unto death, we get a crown of life....and ZERO time telling us about "physical salvation".

All of these redonkulous ideas would not be necessary if people would just believe the Bible: a saint is a saint as long as his will is surrendered to Jesus as his Lord and Savior (a purely cognitive, non-works, thought process) and continuously abides in the Vine, period.

uh huh so what is it 'you intend to' endure in and how is it 'you intend to' endure in it?

 

[Phoneman-777]

s.

i just have a simple question;

what do 'you intend to' endure in and how do 'you intend to' do so?

You are of the group that says the "many" are wicked. Have you found that verse which says the wicked possess "a-g-a-p-e" love?

 

[Phoneman-777]

And then God comforts them and exposes to them why it is that they have sought comfort in sin instead of Him. He restores. 😁

You guys are both ignorantly talking about the Just Man...too bad you refuse to recognize the existence of the Presumptuous Man.

 

[Phoneman-777]

Here is truth: No true Christian wants to sin. He fights against it and hates it and prays to God for assistance in overcoming his temptations. No true Christian wallows in sin.

Agreed...."The Just Man falls seven times and rises up again..." by God's uplifting grace.

 

[posthuman]

s.
You are of the group that says the "many" are wicked. Have you found that verse which says the wicked possess "a-g-a-p-e" love?

is it really so hard for you to give an answer for what you believe?

what do you intend to endure in, that's going to save you from hell?
how do you intend to do it?

 

[Phoneman-777]

uh huh so what is it 'you intend to' endure in and how is it 'you intend to' endure in it?

You're line of questioning is predicated on the "many" being the wicked...so, have you found that verse which attributes "A-G-A-P-E" to the wicked? (hint: it's not there). So, why continue questioning from a flawed position?

 

[posthuman]

his version of clarifying- " o s a s is a wicked deception which will land it's followers in hell. agree with me, everything i say, to avoid that fate."

that is his whole theology.

it does not compute with him that anyone could have peace & feel secure in their Father's hand

 

[posthuman]

You're line of questioning is predicated on the "many" being the wicked...so, have you found that verse which attributes "A-G-A-P-E" to the wicked? (hint: it's not there). So, why continue questioning from a flawed position?

am i to gather from your evasion that you don't know what you're planning to endure in or how you're going to manage to do that?

IOW you don't know how to be saved?

friend, you came to the right place; we can tell you about salvation.

 

[BenFTW]

Now, that's just dishonest. I've said over and over the Just Man needs God's grace to lift him from the pit of sin if he falls in.

What OSAS wants is grace bestowed on the Presumptuous Man who climbs down into the pit, sits down among the filth, swats away the uplifting hand of Jesus, and flashes his OSAS License to Sin in His face...Jesus can't cover such a man with His grace.

It is not dishonest, it is the logical conclusion of what you’re saying.

But let’s set that aside for a moment. Why do you think licentiousness (a license to sin) is the result of God’s grace (properly presented)? If we sin, God’s grace is sufficient. The blood of the Lamb cleanses us of all unrighteousness. This grace permits us to not be alienated from God in our sin and as you have said, leads to God correcting our sin (“that is no longer who you are”; “you are not a slave to sin”).

So, why do you automatically assume that God’s grace, or even OSAS, leads to someone living like a heathen (without excuse) when the mechanism of God’s sanctification is grace? He can sit with us, no condemnation, and work with us on why we entertain what we do (the sins that easily beset us).

It’s somewhat of a straw man to be harping on about a guy who has perverted the grace of God as justification for his sin. This man doesn’t understand God’s grace, in truth. He needs to experience God’s grace.

 

[Phoneman-777]

is it really so hard for you to give an answer for what you believe?

what do you intend to endure in, that's going to save you from hell?
how do you intend to do it?

Not hard...but when Flat Earthers tell you that gravity - which is expressed in terms of acceleration - is produced by the "flat earth" accelerating through space at 9.8 m/s2...

....and you tell them that at that rate of acceleration it would only take 11 months from Creation week until the Earth hit LIGHT SPEED, at which time acceleration would stop and we'd begin floating around and bumping our heads on the clouds...

......they still insist on "flat earth".

 

[Phoneman-777]

am i to gather from your evasion that you don't know what you're planning to endure in or how you're going to manage to do that?

IOW you don't know how to be saved?

friend, you came to the right place; we can tell you about salvation.

ICYMI:
https://christianchat.com/bible-dis...-the-agape-of-god.199282/page-18#post-4580024

 

[Evmur]

Yes, the Mosaic Law which was nailed to the Cross was a difficult to bear, what with all the ceremonial and sacrificial requirements. What's that got to do with the Ten Commandments, which "stand fast forever and ever"?

You know full well Christians can't disregard the First Commandment, but because you won't keep the Fourth Commandment, you argue we don't have to keep any...and you are found to be "partial in the law" (Malachi 2:9 KJV) and prove yourself guilty of all...and God has only one fate for lawbreakers who refuse to repent.
How can people be "weak and fleshly" and yet "more than conquerors" at the same time??? We either get born again and rather die than sin, or be born only once and die in our sin.

Wrong again, only the 10 commandments were handwritten by God

And God never complained that the Jews failed keeping feasts and observing ceremonies, God complained that they kept the feasts and observed the ceremonies but they broke the law and lived like pagans.

 

[posthuman]

Not hard...but when Flat Earthers tell you that gravity - which is expressed in terms of acceleration - is produced by the "flat earth" accelerating through space at 9.8 m/s2...

....and you tell them that at that rate of acceleration it would only take 11 months from Creation week until the Earth hit LIGHT SPEED, at which time acceleration would stop and we'd begin floating around and bumping our heads on the clouds...

......they still insist on "flat earth".

why don't you quit squirming and just tell us what you you think you are going to endure in and how you think you're going to wind up enduring in it?

 

[Ogom]

.... so what is it 'you intend to' endure in and how is it 'you intend to' endure in it?

Jesus is called the Way, the Truth and the Life. we are to endure in The Way, or we are not following Truth. Jesus is also called The Truth.

if we truly believe in Jesus (who He really is) (which is how many claim they are saved), then we
follow The Way. it's a path. the path of Truth.

it begins with milky teachings + possible falsehoods for many it seems -- but goes on from there. it is not a destination, but a road -- a path -- The Way. it is not a belief -- of the mind, a saying i believe, a claim of salvation and the like -- but a belief in The Way -- a path. also known as Christ.... also known as the Truth.

we must follow The Truth (Yeshua/ Jesus Christ) out of the Milky Teachings and any Falsehoods that we have inherited along the Path -- and on and on to beyond or we may be stagnating on whichever flavor of Milk we currently drink and/or, are not truly on The Path much (the Way, the Truth, ........ Life).

 

[Phoneman-777]

It is not dishonest, it is the logical conclusion of what you’re saying.

I have said all along that there's mercy for the Just Man - which he needs for all those "7 times" he falls down - in order to keep rising again, but no mercy for the presumptuous man who refuses to confess and forsake his sin...and there's no amount of mental gymnastics one can perform to claim I disregard our need for mercy.

HOWEVER....

there is ZERO hoops through which to jump in order to show that OSAS's claim that there's nothing the saint can say, do, or think that can cause him to cease to be a saint means he has a License to Sin..it's written in the very NAME of this flawed theology, is it not?

But let’s set that aside for a moment. Why do you think licentiousness (a license to sin) is the result of God’s grace (properly presented)?

I don't think licentiousness is the result of God's grace, PROPERLY PRESENTED.

If we sin, God’s grace is sufficient. The blood of the Lamb cleanses us of all unrighteousness. This grace permits us to not be alienated from God in our sin and as you have said, leads to God correcting our sin (“that is no longer who you are”; “you are not a slave to sin”).

Of course that's true.

BTW, see how much I agree with you as long as you are talking about the Just Man, and not the Presumptuous Man?

So, why do you automatically assume that God’s grace, or even OSAS, leads to someone living like a heathen (without excuse)

I never assume God's grace leads people into sin...and a better question is, "Why do you assume the Just Man needs a OSAS License to Sin when victory over sin is guaranteed, but also there's mercy if he should lose the battle of temptation?

There's only one reason for "Christians" needing it: they don't plan on not needing it -- which is anything but the kind of relationship the Just Man has with Christ.

when the mechanism of God’s sanctification is grace? He can sit with us, no condemnation, and work with us on why we entertain what we do (the sins that easily beset us).

Now, you're back to talking about the Just Man, which is cool.

It’s somewhat of a straw man to be harping on about a guy who has perverted the grace of God as justification for his sin. This man doesn’t understand God’s grace, in truth. He needs to experience God’s grace.

When it comes to Presumptuous Men, what's the difference between the one who flashes his OSAS License to Sin boldly or the one who pulls it out discreetly? Both are without the grace of God because there is no mercy for those who refuse to "confess and forsake them."

 

[BenFTW]

Jesus is called the Way, the Truth and the Life. we are to endure in The Way, or we are not following Truth. Jesus is also called The Truth.

if we truly believe in Jesus (who He really is) (which is how many claim they are saved), then we
follow The Way. it's a path. the path of Truth.

it begins with milky teachings + possible falsehoods for many it seems -- but goes on from there. it is not a destination, but a road -- a path -- The Way. it is not a belief -- of the mind, a saying i believe, a claim of salvation and the like -- but a belief in The Way -- a path. also known as Christ.... also known as the Truth.

we must follow The Truth (Yeshua/ Jesus Christ) out of the Milky Teachings and any Falsehoods that we have inherited along the Path -- and on and on to beyond or we may be stagnating on whichever flavor of Milk we currently drink and/or, are not truly on The Path much (the Way, the Truth, ........ Life).

But the way of truth that’s leads to life is not found in self-righteous (no matter how good it is to be a righteous man) but it is found in the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus Christ. There is no addition to the Gospel of Christ, there is no debt owed to us by God for the path we keep, but all in all, Christ is the preeminence. We have nothing to boast in but Christ Himself.


Colossians 1:15-22 King James Version
15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.
19 For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;
20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.
21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled
22 In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:

 

[Phoneman-777]

why don't you quit squirming and just tell us what you you think you are going to endure in and how you think you're going to wind up enduring in it?

You forfeited your chance to ask me questions when you refused to answer mine. I've been waiting weeks for you to dig up that verse which says the wicked can obtain agape from God.

As soon as you admit "agapao" and "agape" do not mean the same thing and that the Bible no where says the wicked can obtain agape, then you can talk to me about "squirming", OK?