Do catholics worship God or the pope?
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Have you ever wondered why the Christian elders in heaven (Revelation 5:8) are in possession of the prayers of saints on Earth? Not only that, if you keep reading an Angel has some kind of ceremonial role in bringing these prayers to God.
That’s a real example of prayers being in possession of someone other than God in Heaven. How do you explain that? You said only God has our prayers.
8 And when he had taken it, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb. Each one had a harp and they were holding golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of God’s people.
I believe it is symbolic. This verse not instruct to pray to Mary, and Mary may not in the 24 elder.
You’re entitled to think that it’s symbolic but it doesn’t say those prayers are symbolic.
3 And another angel came and stood at the altar with a golden censer; and he was given much incense to mingle with the prayers of all the saints upon the golden altar before the throne;
4 and the smoke of the incense rose with the prayers of the saints from the hand of the angel before God.
That’s too much effort for prayers that aren’t real.
Whether God sees fit to have an Angel involved in the delivery of prayers makes no difference to me. The verse clearly shows that those Christian Elders had possession of prayers sent by people on Earth. You asked earlier how Mary could hear millions of prayers all at once, maybe they’re collected like this verse shows.
The verse doesn’t give every detail so it doesn’t do any good to speculate. I just believe my request gets to them and it gets to God.
it is not an issue if God sees it fit or not it is when a man says it is so but can't prove by the word of God. Nothing.
In one way you say " it makes no difference to me" , what you really are saying is my opinion is greater than what the Bible Does not say. Does God lack the ability to hear the Righteous prayers? Mary was not and is not all-knowing So the idea of stored up prayers so she can have time to answer them LOL is as stupid as the RCC having you pay money for your sins.
I do not know the exact inter workings of Heaven. I don’t need to understand it either.
What I do know is that God showed us a vision in heaven of our prayers being in possession of other Christians (and being delivered to God) and Paul tells us we are connected to God and other Christians (one in the body of Christ). The Bible never says this oneness we have with each other and God goes away once you attain eternal life. And that it’s pleasing to God for us to pray for one another.
The Historical evidence of this belief among early Christians in the Church indicates it was taught. That in itself should not support the basis of that belief but it does give that interpretation credibility.
I find Sola Scriptura to be totally un-credible, so my understanding of the Christian Faith on anything will always be an analysis of what scripture says/doesn’t say, what the oral tradition of the Apostles indicates in the beliefs of the early Church, and what Christ’s Church officially teaches.
This is a very dishonest statement you made. If you don't know then stop saying what "is" when it is not found in the word of God. The Historical Context of the church starts at the Book of Acts, not with the RCC.
Sola Scriptura is not an authoritative statement it is a method used in what is known as Hermenutics " the science and art of proper Biblical interpretation".
ONE Method of many which help the believer to properly understand the word of God but all that is meaningless IF
- you have not repented and come to the saving knowledge of the Lord Jesus Christ
- have the Holy Spirit help your understanding
- have not been properly disciples
- holding on to traditions outside the Bible as authoritative as the word of God.
You can focus on S/S and on dead saints praying to them because you know better than the Word of God.
But I will tell you this if you have not made Jesus Christ your Lord and Savior and have not come into a personal relationship with Him repenting surrendering, and receiving from HIM through the Holy Spirit You are not saved and on your way to hell. That is the same for me and my family and the same for you and your family.
Mary will not stop hell, st. Peter will not stop hell, the pope will not stop hell, and Sola Scriptura doesn't save us no more than a dead saint praying for us.
it Jesus, Jesus! Jesus!
Beginning in the 10th century, the Roman Catholic Church asserted that no one could be venerated as a saint without its approval. The first recorded canonization of a saint is Ulrich of Augsburg by Pope John XV in 993
Wonder wbo they prayed to before this?
Wonder wbo they prayed to before this?
You say the Catholic Church isn’t the Church in the Book of Acts. Because I know how to read, I can actually look at the historical record and see how my Church traces its leadership back to Peter. So you’re free to be a history denier if you want to, but I’m not going to.
Sola Scriptura means the Bible Alone. Nothing else is authoritative as it pertains to the understanding of our faith. That’s the premise it holds as a theological position. I totally reject that. I see 3 authoritative sources of our faith in scripture: Scripture itself, the Oral Tradition of the Apostles, and the Church founded by Jesus Christ. That’s what I find authoritative.
My relationship with God is strong, so you don’t need to worry about that on my behalf.
The Hail Mary prayer came together slowly. It took more than a thousand years. The earliest version simply added Mary’s name to the message delivered by the angel Gabriel to Mary: “Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with thee” (Luke 1:28).
Around 1050 AD, the words Elizabeth used to greet Mary during the Visitation were added: “Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb” (Luke 1:42). In 1261, Pope Urban IV added the name of Jesus to the end of Elizabeth’s words.
Around 1050 AD, the words Elizabeth used to greet Mary during the Visitation were added: “Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb” (Luke 1:42). In 1261, Pope Urban IV added the name of Jesus to the end of Elizabeth’s words.
No, it is not. The word " catholic, pope, RCC is not even found in the book of Acts. IF you know how to read and none of us do as that is what you are implying then leave. You are an RCC only type just as much as in error as the UPC, and the Ultra Calivinsist and OSAS types. You clearly can't read if you could you would have seen where I explained S/S.
Sola Scriptura Ok, get this now means Scripture is the supreme authority in context to the Church NOT the POPE, not your denomination, NOT Mary, not praying to dead saints and not your tradition, and not History. The statement S/S
is reinforcing the understanding of what is known as the authoritative word of God. that is it. IF you don't know Jesus as your Lord and savior your RCC won't save you. Your traditions won't save you.
"Holy mother of God pray for us sinners now at the time and hour of our death "
IS NOT BIBLICAL. it is error and wrong to teach people to pray such.
what we do know is the Bible translated from Hebrew to Greek and then to Latin has a 99.8 percent acceptability. Meaning what we have and the context of the word of God from Genesis to REV is more than enough for the believer today.
All Scripture is God-Breathed all. Not RCC tradition, or the word of the pope. IF the bible doesn't clearly say
pray to dead saints, give money to get loved ones out of Hell, and recite the rosary as a form of penance. IT is Error, Unbiblical and we should not reach people to do such.
That is the most ridiculous logic I have ever heard to prove a point. You will not find the word Trinity anywhere in the entire Bible and yet that is exactly what our God is. The Catholic Church has never referred to itself as the Roman Catholic Church in any official document, it is always just the Catholic Church. Go look at any promulgated document for the entire church and see what it calls itself.
The historical accounts of early Christians and the record of apostolic succession makes it very plain. The Orthodox Church even recognizes the truth of Peter’s apostolic succession to the present day in the Catholic Church.
it will not matter to you very much longer
.LOL you say "you will not find the word Trinity anywhere in the entire Bible and yet that is exactly what our God is."
Wow, look who is now following " Sola Scriptura! the universal church I am a part of and all who know Jesus as Lord and Savior no matter where they are. the RCC has sought to be exclusively the only real "church" as you continue to tout and the RCC has removed the head of the " Church " who is Christ, not the Pope. FYI Peter is not the Rock on which the Church is to be built
That Rock is Christ and Him alone.
hey it's been nice but I must say good bye to you
Byeit will not matter to you very much longer
LOL you say "you will not find the word Trinity anywhere in the entire Bible and yet that is exactly what our God is."
Wow, look who is now following " Sola Scriptura! the universal church I am a part of and all who know Jesus as Lord and Savior no matter where they are. the RCC has sought to be exclusively the only real "church" as you continue to tout and the RCC has removed the head of the " Church " who is Christ, not the Pope. FYI Peter is not the Rock on which the Church is to be built
That Rock is Christ and Him alone.
hey it's been nice but I must say good bye to you