Why Covid 19 When We Have Healing Power

[TheLearner]

You shared that truth so very clearly SophieT, we see the clear delineation here of those who lean on their own understanding, holding to an outward form of godliness denying the Power vs. the remnant who are in vital, personal, Holy Spirit filled relationship.

I have heard WOF use that line that it is God's will to heal everyone.

Paul had the thorn in the flesh problem that history tells us was his eyes.

1 Timothy 5:23
Do not drink water only, but take a little wine to help your digestion, since you are sick so often.


There is some evidence in Scripture that Paul had an eye problem. He spoke of the large letters he used in writing to the Galatians (Galatians 6:11). He also declared that the Galatians would have plucked out their own eyes and given them to him (Galatians 4:13-15). Some have suggested that this may have been a chronic eye disease or an injury suffered when he was stoned in Lystra (Acts 14:19,20).

 

[TheLearner]

Yes, I agree. There is always one bad seed in every crop no matter what the crop is.

IF what I am saying is a "minority" I would not say anything. However, I do not think that is the case.

Westborro is NOT a Baptist church. It is a cult of lunatics.

I for one do not have any problem with emotionalism or expression. The problem I have it when those things replace BIBLE Doctrine.

Example......

1). The AOG teach a false plan of salvation which requires human effort to get to Heaven.

The following quote from the official Assemblies of God website is really bad theology. ...

To carelessly participate in sin, expecting to gain forgiveness later, is itself an act of backsliding that will lead ultimately to losing one's salvation. We therefore reject any "once saved, always saved" doctrine that excuses sinful lifestyles.​

SOURCE: Security of the Believer (Backsliding)​

2). The AOG teaches that we can lose our salvation after being saved.
"Once saved can mean forever saved–if one continues in faith, growing in sanctification and holiness day by day. But God will not arbitrarily usurp mankind's free will. Our sovereign God does not overrule free will just to prove He is sovereign. [emphasis added] ...
SOURCE: Security of the Believer (Backsliding)

3). The AOG teaches that "IF" you are saved then you WILL speak in tongues.
The Bible no where says such a thing.

4). The AOG teaches that there is a 2nd Blessing where we then receive the Holy SPirit.
The Bible says that we are SEALED by the Holy Spirit when we hear and believe upon Christ.

ANYONE.....ANYONE can believe whatever that want to believe. God gave us all the freedom of choice. I just hate to see good peole make bad choices based on wrong teaching.

2 Timothy 4:1-5 .....
"I charge thee therefore before God, and the LORD Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom; 2Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine. 3For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; 4And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables"

Any church that teaches one must speak in tongues is against the Bible Doctrines.

 

[TheLearner]

Have you ever looked up the healing verses?

Of course not.

When you do and see Jesus promoting far more radical faith healing FOR IS HIS FOLLOWERS, be sure and start a thread on how far off Jesus is.

You are mind reader now? puzzled

 

[TheLearner]

ALL you just posted is HISTORICAL FACTS. However, YOU know as well as I do that those on this site who read what YOU and I post will attack us PERSONALLY for posting facts instead of realizing that the thing that are involved in just may =not be a God thing at all.

Kathryn Kuhlman was woman "healer" who, when sick, went out to Tulsa to the number one "healer," Roberts--to die., and she did.

When Jack Coe died of cancer we were reminded by Dr. John R. Rice, "Healers die, too!"

One wonders why Jim Bakker and Oral Roberts must wear glasses. If healing is in the atonement and is available for all who believe, why did they just not have faith for the healing of their eyes? Again and again, we have heard of people who were supposedly healed in these charismatic meetings--only to die a bit later from the same disease.

Early in his ministry, Oral Roberts insisted he had raised a number of people from the dead. One instance was a woman who came running up to him during a service saying that her baby died during his sermon. After much publicity on this, Roberts, a month later, was hedging and admitting that perhaps the baby was not really dead when when the mother brought him (or her) up to him.

Here then is the problem......Though many Charismatics, by their own admission, do not claim to be fundamentalists, the pagan writers and commentators enjoy lumping us all together. Thus the money-grabbing covetous and immorality that has come to light among Charismatics has reflected upon Christians everywhere.

The sex scandals, blackmail, lavish indulgences, name-calling, drug-taking, in addition to the fleecing of listeners and "fans" out of millions of dollars supposedly going to God's work, has become a shocking fiasco to many and the laughing stock of all time to the unbelieving and skeptical world.

I once challenged a person WOF to ask God to heal his sight. He stop wearing glasses and got into car wrecks. He kept telling the police God healed his eyesight. Too bad the eye doctor disagreed --- they took his drivers license away.

 

[TheLearner]

When...WHERE did I say that Jesus did not heal?????

Jesus healed...GOD heals.......But NO man has the ability to heal as we see on TV with Benny Hinn and Tolton, and Roberts as there is NO PHYSICAL HEALING found in the Atonement of Christ.

God heals through the prayers of His children...when He chooses and not Katheryn Kullman.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Faith_Healers
https://www.amazon.com/Faith-Healers-James-Randi/dp/0879755350

 

[TheLearner]

Get into the word.

I am pointing out how JESUS instucted us to do what he did.

He did not say exclusively "pray and i will do it" he said it is given to us to go out and do what he did..

Eternally cannonized in the bible

You are welcome.

Context???

 

[TheLearner]

Hank hannegraff HATES anything to do with the Holy Spirit.

He ended up embezzling and plagurizing.

He definately got a payback .
He earned it.

Your proof is? what? thanks

 

[shittim]

I have heard WOF use that line that it is God's will to heal everyone.

Paul had the thorn in the flesh problem that history tells us was his eyes.

1 Timothy 5:23
Do not drink water only, but take a little wine to help your digestion, since you are sick so often.


There is some evidence in Scripture that Paul had an eye problem. He spoke of the large letters he used in writing to the Galatians (Galatians 6:11). He also declared that the Galatians would have plucked out their own eyes and given them to him (Galatians 4:13-15). Some have suggested that this may have been a chronic eye disease or an injury suffered when he was stoned in Lystra (Acts 14:19,20).

It is His will, several times in scripture it states Jesus healed them all, no one since has had the same perfect results. some have gotten close. The problem is never on His end, it is always down here.

 

[TheLearner]

12 And they went out, and preached that men should repent.

13 And they cast out many devils, and anointed with oil many that were sick, and healed them.


Take that one apart for us.

Mark 6
Jesus Sends Out the Twelve Disciples
Then Jesus went to the villages around there, teaching the people. 7 He called the twelve disciples together and sent them out two by two. He gave them authority over the evil spirits 8 and ordered them, “Don't take anything with you on the trip except a walking stick—no bread, no beggar's bag, no money in your pockets. 9 Wear sandals, but don't carry an extra shirt.” 10 He also told them, “Wherever you are welcomed, stay in the same house until you leave that place. 11 If you come to a town where people do not welcome you or will not listen to you, leave it and shake the dust off your feet. That will be a warning to them!”

12 So they went out and preached that people should turn away from their sins. 13 They drove out many demons, and rubbed olive oil on many sick people and healed them.

In context, Jesus was speaking only to his Apostles who were called disciples at that time. The text in context does not refer to all Christians of all time.

Context still matters.

 

[TheLearner]

Acts 3:11
And as the lame man which was healed held Peter and John, all the people ran together unto them in the porch that is called Solomon's, greatly wondering.

And remember...no prayer. Just invoking the Holy Spirit.

You know...kinda like Jesus showed them.
Now THEY ARE OUT DOING THE SAME THING

Again that was in the authority of an Apostle, not all Christians.

 

[TheLearner]

Acts 5
12 [j]At the hands of the apostles many [k]signs and wonders were taking place among the people; and they were all [l]together in Solomon’s [m]portico.

Yep...going out and doing what Jesus did.

"hands of the apostles " their authority from Jesus, not yours.

 

[shittim]

Absolutely- I don't think he grasps the "authority" part, among other issues and only desires to argue.
best wishes

 

[TheLearner]

Acts 8
5 Philip went down to the city of Samaria and began proclaiming the [d]Christ to them. 6 The crowds were paying attention with one mind to what was being said by Philip, as they heard and saw the [e]signs which he was performing. 7 For in the case of many who had unclean spirits, they were coming out of them shouting with a loud voice; and many who had been paralyzed or limped on crutches were healed

Maybe that can kinda get you started.

There are many many more.

...but not available through those toxic teachers you listen to.

Just go to bible gateway and type in "healed".
Tons of them


......tons

Way too many for any hope that "only prayer " is Gods method.
Sometimes we just evict the sickness
Sometimes we pray.
Sometimes we declare the word.
Sometimes it is the believers authority.
Sometimes we prophesy over them.

I had a lady get cured of cancer ..stage 4... By simply speaking a word over her.

Read the word.
It destroys internet doctrines .

Your stand is over your conjecture.

The authority you and i have is on the basis of the word.

Faith builds.
Tearing down the men of God will weaken you

Ah, Philip the Apostle was one of the 12 main disciples of Jesus Christ.

Philip had that authority as an Apostle.

 

[TheLearner]

It is His will, several times in scripture it states Jesus healed them all, no one since has had the same perfect results. some have gotten close. The problem is never on His end, it is always down here.

Again, you are NOT JESUS You do not have an Messianic Ministry of Jesus.

 

[TheLearner]

Absolutely- I don't think he grasps the "authority" part, among other issues and only desires to argue.
best wishes

The Authority of an Apostle is not what we everyday Christians have.

Acts 1
21-22 “So then, someone must join us as a witness to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus. He must be one of the men who were in our group during the whole time that the Lord Jesus traveled about with us, beginning from the time John preached his message of baptism until the day Jesus was taken up from us to heaven.”

23 So they proposed two men: Joseph, who was called Barsabbas (also known as Justus), and Matthias. 24 Then they prayed, “Lord, you know the thoughts of everyone, so show us which of these two you have chosen 25 to serve as an apostle in the place of Judas, who left to go to the place where he belongs.” 26 Then they drew lots to choose between the two men, and the one chosen was Matthias, who was added to the group of eleven apostles.

Romans 1:1
From Paul, a servant of Christ Jesus and an apostle chosen and called by God to preach his Good News.

1 Corinthians 9:1-2
Rights and Duties of an Apostle
Am I not a free man? Am I not an apostle? Haven't I seen Jesus our Lord? And aren't you the result of my work for the Lord?
Even if others do not accept me as an apostle, surely you do! Because of your life in union with the Lord you yourselves are proof of the fact that I am an apostle.

1 Corinthians 12:29
They are not all apostles or prophets or teachers. Not everyone has the power to work miracles

2 Corinthians 1:1
From Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by God's will, and from our brother Timothy— To the church of God in Corinth, and to all God's people throughout Achaia:

Galatians 1:1
From Paul, whose call to be an apostle did not come from human beings or by human means, but from Jesus Christ and God the Father, who raised him from death.

Ephesians 4:11
It was he who “gave gifts to people”; he appointed some to be apostles, others to be prophets, others to be evangelists, others to be pastors and teachers.

 

[TheLearner]

read to here

God bless you all

 

[PaulChristensen]

Yes, I agree. There is always one bad seed in every crop no matter what the crop is.

IF what I am saying is a "minority" I would not say anything. However, I do not think that is the case.

Westborro is NOT a Baptist church. It is a cult of lunatics.

I for one do not have any problem with emotionalism or expression. The problem I have it when those things replace BIBLE Doctrine.

Example......

1). The AOG teach a false plan of salvation which requires human effort to get to Heaven.

The following quote from the official Assemblies of God website is really bad theology. ...

To carelessly participate in sin, expecting to gain forgiveness later, is itself an act of backsliding that will lead ultimately to losing one's salvation. We therefore reject any "once saved, always saved" doctrine that excuses sinful lifestyles.​

SOURCE: Security of the Believer (Backsliding)​

2). The AOG teaches that we can lose our salvation after being saved.
"Once saved can mean forever saved–if one continues in faith, growing in sanctification and holiness day by day. But God will not arbitrarily usurp mankind's free will. Our sovereign God does not overrule free will just to prove He is sovereign. [emphasis added] ...
SOURCE: Security of the Believer (Backsliding)

3). The AOG teaches that "IF" you are saved then you WILL speak in tongues.
The Bible no where says such a thing.

4). The AOG teaches that there is a 2nd Blessing where we then receive the Holy SPirit.
The Bible says that we are SEALED by the Holy Spirit when we hear and believe upon Christ.

ANYONE.....ANYONE can believe whatever that want to believe. God gave us all the freedom of choice. I just hate to see good peole make bad choices based on wrong teaching.

2 Timothy 4:1-5 .....
"I charge thee therefore before God, and the LORD Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom; 2Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine. 3For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; 4And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables"

When I was first converted in the AOG, I never knew what the righteousness of Christ was all about. It seemed to imply that the righteousness of Christ with some kind of conformity to the righteousness that Jesus had. I think the implication might have come from the Methodist Holiness movement, from where traditional Pentecostalism grew out from. That movement stressed personal holiness almost to the point of legalism.

It was not until I started studying Puritan writers that it dawned on me that the righteousness of Christ was given to us as the gift of God and was not related to our good works or personal holiness at all. And if we link that with the Scripture that tells us that the gifts and calling of God are without repentance, and that God's throne of grace is always open to us for us to find mercy and grace to help in our time of need, then it shows that a genuine believer cannot backslide into sin without the Holy Spirit within in loudly protesting against it.

That is my experience anyway. During my storm and stress years where in some ways I did fall off the wagon of grace, the Holy Spirit within me kept on at me repeatedly saying, "This is not you!" And when I came to to the point where I acknowledged that what I was doing was not what God intended for me, He said, "Don't stop talking to me about it, and we can work through this." And so we did, and my life was turned back around and I was back on the path of sanctification.

We are always going to have struggles with the flesh. It will always be a thorn in our sides to trip us up, and when it does, the devil is always there to drop condemnation bombs on us.

The AOG never taught me that Paul's experience in Romans 7 was his present experience as a Christian believer. I think they interpret it as what he experienced as a Pharisee before he got converted. But that interpretation doesn't agree with his description of himself as being "blameless in respect of the Law". This shows that he didn't have any conflict with his flesh before conversion, because his life was totally in the flesh, and the flesh doesn't have conflict with itself.

The Apostle John is correct when he says that those who are born of God cannot sin - because they don't want to, and sin is their enemy. They hate sin and fight against it any way they can.

I think also, that the AOG accept "easy believerism" that through a simple "sinner's prayer" a person can be totally converted to Christ. This is not correct. Genuine conversion must be earnestly sought for and it is a transformation work within the person through the baptism with the Spirit. This should happen at the first instance when a person embraces Christ, but because of the "easy believerism" without a true transformation, the AOG adds that transformation as their form of the baptism with the Spirit as a second blessing.

In fact, it is the first blessing of true conversion and total transformation of the heart. Now, I am not saying that a person is not saved when he comes to Christ praying the sinner's prayer. That saves him, but the baptism with the Spirit transforms him and causes him to be born again. That's why I believe that a person should not consider himself truly converted to Christ until he (or she) is baptised with the Spirit.

Now, the gifts are the Holy Spirit's tools of trade. A person can be baptised with the Spirit without immediately using any of the gifts, including tongues. Saying that tongues is the evidence of the baptism with the Spirit is incorrect. Faith, along with the total transformation of the heart and spirit is the initial evidence. The gifts appear later. An engineer has to go to university and be fully qualified before he starts on the job using engineering tools.

 

[Major]

You failed to include that both Stephan and Philip operated under the sign gigts of the Aposles. ONLY those men had those SIGN GIFTS and they were in operation during the lives of those Apostles. By the time the canon of Scriptures were completed and established the credentials of a true Apostle of God was then through the Word of God rather than the SIGN Gifts of the Apostles.

That is correct!

Thank you for that input!

 

[Major]

Acts 8
5 Philip went down to the city of Samaria and began proclaiming the [d]Christ to them. 6 The crowds were paying attention with one mind to what was being said by Philip, as they heard and saw the [e]signs which he was performing. 7 For in the case of many who had unclean spirits, they were coming out of them shouting with a loud voice; and many who had been paralyzed or limped on crutches were healed

Maybe that can kinda get you started.

There are many many more.

...but not available through those toxic teachers you listen to.

Just go to bible gateway and type in "healed".
Tons of them


......tons

Way too many for any hope that "only prayer " is Gods method.
Sometimes we just evict the sickness
Sometimes we pray.
Sometimes we declare the word.
Sometimes it is the believers authority.
Sometimes we prophesy over them.

I had a lady get cured of cancer ..stage 4... By simply speaking a word over her.

Read the word.
It destroys internet doctrines .

Your stand is over your conjecture.

The authority you and i have is on the basis of the word.

Faith builds.
Tearing down the men of God will weaken you

Any medical validation of your claim?

I once had a tooth pulled by Jesus and He replaced it with a solid gold one, all in one night!

Why not Ask me if I can validate that claim with medical proof????

You do realize that your posts are embarrassing you....right?

You NEVER use any Scripture to support your claims. Your OPINIONS are always focused more on a personal level that a doctrinal position.

 

[Jackson123]

Again that was in the authority of an Apostle, not all Christians.

Act 6
8 Now Stephen, a man full of God’s grace and power, performed great wonders and signs among the people.

Stephen wasn't apostle and perform sign and wonder