Support Israel? Yes or No? And Why?

[Roughsoul1991]

Ya. I certainly am not disagreeing. I wouldn't bet against you being correct. My point was that it's absurd for a Christian to ask a jew's opinion on matters of scripture. I'd be most inclined to believe the opposite of whatever the jew is telling me. They hated Jesus and they hate me because of Jesus. So whatever they say is likely for the purpose of causing me harm or damaging Christianity.

You do realize we have Messianic Jews right? Who do believe in Jesus Christ as their Savior? Dr Michael Brown being one of the popular conservative radio talk show host.

 

[OldSage]

Ya. I certainly am not disagreeing. I wouldn't bet against you being correct. My point was that it's absurd for a Christian to ask a jew's opinion on matters of scripture. I'd be most inclined to believe the opposite of whatever the jew is telling me. They hated Jesus and they hate me because of Jesus. So whatever they say is likely for the purpose of causing me harm or damaging Christianity.

I would bet a million quid.... 7t7 is plain unlearned.

http://creationevolutiondesign.blogspot.com/2009/02/re-daniels-70-weeks-interpretation-of.html?m=1

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Ya. I certainly am not disagreeing. I wouldn't bet against you being correct. My point was that it's absurd for a Christian to ask a jew's opinion on matters of scripture. I'd be most inclined to believe the opposite of whatever the jew is telling me. They hated Jesus and they hate me because of Jesus. So whatever they say is likely for the purpose of causing me harm or damaging Christianity.

Latin Vulgate (400s):

Daniel 9 -

"24 Septuaginta hebdomades abbreviatae sunt super populum tuum, et super urbem sanctam tuam ut consummetur praevaricatio, et finem accipiat peccatum, et deleatur iniquitas, et adducatur iustitia sempiterna, et impleatur visio, et prophetia, et ungatur Sanctus sanctorum."

-- https://www.biblestudytools.com/vul/daniel/9.html [Latin Vulgate, from the 400s]





"hebdomada (Latin)

Origin & history

From Ancient Greek ἑβδομάς‎ ("the number seven") (genitive ἑβδομάδος), from ἑπτά ("seven")."

-- https://www.wordsense.eu/hebdomada/


[bold and underline mine]




[now, the "400s" is not "new," if one is defining "new" to be "something after 1611" ... not saying YOU referred to the idea of "new"... just putting this here for those READING this thread, and reading the one post referring to "new translations" SUPPOSEDLY "changing" the meaning of this word. NOT.]



____________

The text in Daniel 9:24 says, "Seventy SEVENS are..."


And the other poster saying that history itself proves it refers to "sets of SEVEN YEARS" is correct.

 

[Truth7t7]

Here you go the Geneva Bible of 1599, older than the King James, the very Bible the Pilgrims brought on the Mayflower, with the footnote of the reformationist who by the way was excluded by the King in the King James Version which is basically the Geneva Bible without the commentary that spoke against tyrants and wickedness.


Daniel 9:24
1599 Geneva Bible
24 Seventy [a]weeks are determined upon [b]thy people and upon thine holy city, to finish the wickedness, and to seal up [c]the sins, and to reconcile the iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
Footnotes

1. Daniel 9:24 He alludeth to Jeremiah’s prophecy: who prophesied that their captivity should be seventy years: but now God’s mercy should sevenfold exceed his judgment, which should be four hundred and ninety years, even to the coming of Christ, and so then it should continue forever.

King Artaxerxes of Persia c. 445 B.C. gave the command in Nehemiah 2:1-8 to rebuild Jerusalem.

If you follow scripture and history, then you can see that 70 weeks makes no sense.

Using the day/year theory the claim it took (62 weeks/434 years) to build a wall and street in Jerusalem, and the troublous time lasted the same?

As you can see in this alone the day/year theory is a farce, defying history and common sense

Daniel's seventy weeks are future, and will be four hundred and ninety days, a precursor to the coming of the Antichrist

Daniel 9:25KJV
24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

^ @Truth7t7 , No, it is making the point, instead,

--"FROM ______ UNTO the Messiah the Prince [shall be ______________ amount of time: namely "7 and 62 sets of seven years," or "69 TOTAL sets of seven years"... aka 483 yrs]



Jesus fulfilled that [483 years [69 years TOTAL] to the day] on the precise day that He SAID the Lk19:41-44 words and He DID the Zech9:9 thing (both regarding "the city" / "Jerusalem"... which is what the prophecy in Dan9:24 stated it is in regard to ]

 

[Truth7t7]

Ya. I certainly am not disagreeing. I wouldn't bet against you being correct. My point was that it's absurd for a Christian to ask a jew's opinion on matters of scripture. I'd be most inclined to believe the opposite of whatever the jew is telling me. They hated Jesus and they hate me because of Jesus. So whatever they say is likely for the purpose of causing me harm or damaging Christianity.

I cant disagree that Judaism as a whole hates Christians and Christianity, as the majority follow their holy book of the Rabbis (Talmud) that clearly teaches such, evil filth!

A Few Examples For The Unaware

Goyim = Gentile

Quotes The Talmud:

* “All children of the ‘goyim’ (Gentiles) are animals.” (Yebamoth 98a)

* “Girls born of the ‘goyim’ are in a state of ‘niddah’ (menstrual uncleanness!) from birth.” (Abodah Zarah 36b)

* “The ‘goyim’ are not humans. They are beasts.” (Baba Mezia 114b)

* “If you eat with a ‘goy’ it is the same as eating with a dog.” (Tosapoth, Jebamoth 94b)

* “Even the best of the ‘goyim’ should all be killed.” (Soferim 15)

* “Sexual intercourse between the ‘goyim’ is like intercourse between animals.” (Sanhedrin 74b)

* “When it comes to a Gentile in peace times, one may harm him indirectly, for instance, by removing a ladder after he had fallen into a crevice.” (Shulkan Arukh, Yoreh De ‘ah, 158, Hebrew Edition only)

* “‘Yashu’ (derogatory for ‘Jesus’) is in Hell being boiled in hot excrement.” (Gittin 57a)

[’Yashu’ is an acronym for the Jewish curse, ‘May his (Jesus) name be wiped out forevermore.’]

* Yashu (Jesus) was sexually immoral and worshipped a brick.” (Sanhedrin 107b)

* “Yashu (Jesus) was cut off from the Jewish people for his wickedness and refused to repent.” (Sotah 47a)

* “Miriam the hairdresser had sex with many men.” (Shabbath 104b, Hebrew Edition only)

* “She who was the descendant of princes and governors (the virgin Mary) played the harlot with carpenters.” (Sanhedrin 106a)

* “Christians who reject the Talmud will go to hell and be punished there for all generations.” (Rosh Hashanah 17a)

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

[69 years TOTAL]

EDIT: should read "[69 sets of 7 years TOTAL]"... referring to the "483 years total"



____________



Point being: History itself proves that the text means "sets of seven... YEARS"

 

[Roughsoul1991]

^ @Truth7t7 , No, it is making the point, instead,

--"FROM ______ UNTO the Messiah the Prince [shall be ______________ amount of time: namely "7 and 62 sets of seven years," or "69 TOTAL sets of seven years"... aka 483 yrs]



Jesus fulfilled that [483 years [69 years TOTAL] to the day] on the precise day that He SAID the Lk19:41-44 words and He DID the Zech9:9 thing (both regarding "the city" / "Jerusalem"... which is what the prophecy in Dan9:24 stated it is in regard to ]

Using the day/year theory the claim it took (62 weeks/434 years) to build a wall and street in Jerusalem, and the troublous time lasted the same?

As you can see in this alone the day/year theory is a farce, defying history and common sense

Daniel's seventy weeks are future, and will be four hundred and ninety days, a precursor to the coming of the Antichrist

Daniel 9:25KJV
24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

THIS☝☝☝quote: TheDivineWatermark

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

^

EDIT: should read "[69 sets of 7 years TOTAL]"... referring to the "483 years total"

yep... as long as my bracketed insert is changed to read this way ^ LOL

(I had inserted it hastily, last second, and had not enough EDIT time within that post... )

 

[Truth7t7]

THIS☝☝☝quote: TheDivineWatermark

He/She hasnt answered my claims below, I'm in conversation with you, 62x7=434 years in building a wall and street in Jerusalem, Get Real

Using the day/year theory the claim it took (62 weeks/434 years) to "build again" a wall and street in Jerusalem, and the troublous time lasted the same?

As you can see in this alone the day/year theory is a farce, defying history and common sense

Daniel's seventy weeks are future, and will be four hundred and ninety days, a precursor to the coming of the Antichrist

Daniel 9:25KJV
24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

 

[DWR]

He/She hasnt answered my claims below, I'm in conversation with you, 62x7=434 years in building a wall and street in Jerusalem, Get Real

Using the day/year theory the claim it took (62 weeks/434 years) to "build again" a wall and street in Jerusalem, and the troublous time lasted the same?

As you can see in this alone the day/year theory is a farce, defying history and common sense

Daniel's seventy weeks are future, and will be four hundred and ninety days, a precursor to the coming of the Antichrist

Daniel 9:25KJV
24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

The Scripture never says 62 weeks to build a wall.
I perceive you have a reading comprehension problem.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

The Scripture never says 62 weeks to build a wall.

Right.

It never says this.

I perceive you have a reading comprehension problem.

 

[Roughsoul1991]

He/She hasnt answered my claims below, I'm in conversation with you, 62x7=434 years in building a wall and street in Jerusalem, Get Real

Using the day/year theory the claim it took (62 weeks/434 years) to "build again" a wall and street in Jerusalem, and the troublous time lasted the same?

As you can see in this alone the day/year theory is a farce, defying history and common sense

Daniel's seventy weeks are future, and will be four hundred and ninety days, a precursor to the coming of the Antichrist

Daniel 9:25KJV
24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

You are missing context.

the ruler, comes, there will be seven ‘sevens,’ and sixty-two ‘sevens.’ It will be rebuilt with streets and a trench, but in times of trouble.

26 After the sixty-two ‘sevens,’ the Anointed One will be put to death and will have nothing.

The first unit of 49 years (seven “sevens”) it took awhile to remove the rubble and build the city.

Then in verse 26 we learn after the 49 the next part starts. 62 sevens using the Jewish custom of a 360-day year, 483 years places us at A.D. 32.

We are now in a time stop or as scripture says God is patiently waiting until a specific number of gentiles come in. Then the next 7 will begin or the tribulation.

27 He will confirm a covenant with many for one ‘seven.’[h] In the middle of the ‘seven’[i] he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And at the temple[j] he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him.

In the middle of the 7 or 3.5 years, the Antichrist will break the peace treaty and cause desolation. After 3.5 more years Christ will return, destroy the nations against Israel and then a new Jerusalem will be ushered forth.

 

[Lucy-Pevensie]

Non-violence and patience are the central tenets of our faith

We could just as well be Hindu or Buddhist with those values.

 

[OldSage]

Using the day/year theory the claim it took (62 weeks/434 years) to build a wall and street in Jerusalem, and the troublous time lasted the same?

As you can see in this alone the day/year theory is a farce, defying history and common sense

Daniel's seventy weeks are future, and will be four hundred and ninety days, a precursor to the coming of the Antichrist

Daniel 9:25KJV
24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

The building work took 46 years... In fact it went on until 64AD. What is your point?

 

[Truth7t7]

You are missing context.

the ruler, comes, there will be seven ‘sevens,’ and sixty-two ‘sevens.’ It will be rebuilt with streets and a trench, but in times of trouble.

26 After the sixty-two ‘sevens,’ the Anointed One will be put to death and will have nothing.

The first unit of 49 years (seven “sevens”) it took awhile to remove the rubble and build the city.

Then in verse 26 we learn after the 49 the next part starts. 62 sevens using the Jewish custom of a 360-day year, 483 years places us at A.D. 32.

We are now in a time stop or as scripture says God is patiently waiting until a specific number of gentiles come in. Then the next 7 will begin or the tribulation.

27 He will confirm a covenant with many for one ‘seven.’[h] In the middle of the ‘seven’[i] he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And at the temple[j] he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him.

In the middle of the 7 or 3.5 years, the Antichrist will break the peace treaty and cause desolation. After 3.5 more years Christ will return, destroy the nations against Israel and then a new Jerusalem will be ushered forth.

No Context Is Missed Whatsoever, It Clearly States 62 weeks to build the wall and street, "Very Clear" you cant wave a magic wand and change this truth before your eyes

Using the day/year theory the claim it took (62 weeks/434 years) to "build again" a wall and street in Jerusalem, and the troublous time lasted the same?

As you can see in this alone the day/year theory is a farce, defying history and common sense

Daniel's seventy weeks are future, and will be four hundred and ninety days, a precursor to the coming of the Antichrist

Daniel 9:25KJV
24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

 

[DWR]

No Context Is Missed Whatsoever, It Clearly States 62 weeks to build the wall and street, "Very Clear" you cant wave a magic wand and change this truth before your eyes

Using the day/year theory the claim it took (62 weeks/434 years) to "build again" a wall and street in Jerusalem, and the troublous time lasted the same?

As you can see in this alone the day/year theory is a farce, defying history and common sense

Daniel's seventy weeks are future, and will be four hundred and ninety days, a precursor to the coming of the Antichrist

Daniel 9:25KJV
24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

As I said. You do have trouble understand what you read.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Using the day/year theory the claim it took (62 weeks/434 years) to build a wall and street in Jerusalem, and the troublous time lasted the same?

As you can see in this alone the day/year theory is a farce, defying history and common sense

This is not in any way related to "the day/year theory," you are conflating this issue with something entirely different.


The text is saying:

--"FROM ______ UNTO the Messiah the Prince [shall be ______________ amount of time: namely "7 and 62 sets of seven years," or "69 TOTAL sets of seven years"... aka 483 yrs]"




So... ascertain what the "FROM" refers to... and note that the "UNTO the Messiah the Prince" speaks of Jesus, and you will see that "69 sets of 7 YEARS," aka 483 years, FITS THE BILL precisely, to the day!!









... but "FROM" what? does the text state? "FROM _____" <--what? "UNTO the Messiah the Prince" (that's Jesus)

...fill in the blank with the correct answer, meaning, WHAT THE TEXT TELLS US...




...and you'll begin to see that this is NOT anything remotely resembling "the day/year theory" (as you suggest), which is something completely unrelated and not at all what anyone is saying, here.



____________

The text is NOT stating that "building the wall" will take that length of time. NO!!

Read the actual text... "FROM _____ UNTO the Messiah the Prince [/Jesus]" will be a certain amount of time... (namely, 483 yrs total)

 

[Truth7t7]

The building work took 46 years... In fact it went on until 64AD. What is your point?

No the building of the wall and street didnt take 62x7=434 years

The 62 weeks are future, and will take 434 days of building the wall and street, and it is stopped by the prince to fulfill the future time of the gentiles, as Jerusalem is surrounded by armies and tread under foot for 42 months

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

No Context Is Missed Whatsoever, It Clearly States 62 weeks to build the wall and street, "Very Clear" you cant wave a magic wand and change this truth before your eyes

The text does NOT state what you suggest, here ^ . NO.


"62 Weeks to build the wall" NO, the text DOES NOT STATE that.

Read it again, carefully... coz you are completely missing what it actually DOES say:




25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be [certain length of time]...



[a certain length of time BETWEEN "Point A" and "Point B"]