Daniel 11:37, The Future Antichrist Will Be A Jew/Hebrew In Decent

[crossnote]

I believe Jesus is referred to as Michael, the arch angel simply because of the meaning of arch angel: It's the chief messenger. There is no more messenger in chief than the Lord Jesus himself. He is the word. That's my rationale for my understanding that Michael the arch angel is our "Messenger in Chief," the Lord Jesus. Further, because God refers to Jesus as "David" it is not a stretch of the imagination to understand that Jesus goes by many names as how God teaches by them.

Hopefully, not this Michael...

Jude 9 (KJV) Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.

He did not have the authority that Jesus has, but had to defer to the Lord.

 

[OrphanedRepublican]

I guess someone ought to tell those Christians in heaven in Revelation Ch 5 Verses 13-14 to stop worshiping that angel then.

In post #59 I cite Bible references for my understanding that Jesus is the Angel of the Lord.

The angel in Revelation talking to John, that wasn't the Angel of the Lord. That was another angel who correctly informed John that he was not God and that he was a fellow adherent and obedient to God's commandments.

The Angel of the Lord accepts worship and offerings.

 

[OrphanedRepublican]

Hopefully, not this Michael...

Jude 9 (KJV) Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.

He did not have the authority that Jesus has, but had to defer to the Lord.

I don't understand that entire verse. But, I do understand that if God is careful to inform us that Michael is the Arch Angel, then God is telling us that he is the Lord Jesus Christ.

As for "the Lord rebuke thee," that could be alerting the reader to the upcoming judgment the Lord is yet to carry out. I don't know, because this whole verse is mysterious to me. So I speculate on that. But, this verse is bringing up other contradictions that I am not yet understanding, none of which have anything to do with my understanding that Jesus is Michael, the Arch Angel. The definition alone identifies him as the Lord Jesus.

 

[Truth7t7]

I follow a strict solo scriptura path.

I believe Jesus is referred to as Michael, the arch angel simply because of the meaning of arch angel: It's the chief messenger. There is no more messenger in chief than the Lord Jesus himself. He is the word. That's my rationale for my understanding that Michael the arch angel is our "Messenger in Chief," the Lord Jesus. Further, because God refers to Jesus as "David" in some instances, it is not a stretch of the imagination to understand that Jesus goes by many names as how God teaches by them.

Paul says in Colossians 1:15 that Jesus is the image of the invisible God. Therefore, the Angel of the Lord is Jesus Christ.

In Judges Chapter 13, Manoah and his wife realized they saw God when the Angel of the Lord accepted and did "wondrously" their offering.

In Exodus 3, the Angel of the Lord appeared to Moses in a flame of fire (Exodus 3:2) and identifies himself as God calling out to Moses from the midst of the bush (Exodus 3:4) and in his conversation with Moses, identified himself as "the God of thy father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob." (Exodus 3:6)

In Genesis Chapter 16, when Hagar fled from Sarai, the Angel of the Lord spoke with her in the wilderness and "And the angel of the LORD said unto her, I will multiply thy seed exceedingly, that it shall not be numbered for multitude." (Genesis 16:10) Further, she recognized that she had been visited by God and called the name of the Lord that spoke to her "Thou God seest me: for she said, Have I also here looked after him that seeth me?" (Genesis 16:13) Further, the well is called Beerlahairoi which is "well of the Living One seeing me" (Genesis 16:14) Further, Kadesh and Bered mean (Kadesh = holy) and Bered = hail. The whole place is described by God in this event with Hagar and the Angel of the Lord as God seeing Hagar and saving her son and blessing him. Angels bring tidings, not blessings.

In Genesis Chapter 22:11-12, The Angel of the Lord calls out to stop Abraham from slaying Isaac and declares himself to be God when he says, "... seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only son from me."

It is notable that the Angel of the Lord no longer appears after the birth of Jesus.

For these reasons and others I may not have thought to cite here, I believe the Angel of the Lord is our Lord Jesus Christ.

You didnt answer my question, are you 7th day Adventist?

 

[OrphanedRepublican]

You didnt answer my question, are you 7th day Adventist?

I am not affiliated with 7th Day or any other religious group. I thought I answered that by informing you that I follow a very strict solo scriptura study. If you are unfamiliar with solo scriptura, it simply means, scripture alone.

 

[Truth7t7]

I am not affiliated with 7th Day or any other religious group. I thought I answered that by informing you that I follow a very strict solo scriptura study. If you are unfamiliar with solo scriptura, it simply means, scripture alone.

Thanks, I disagree with the teaching Michael the Arch Angel s Jesus Christ,

As clearly seen below, Michael referred to the Lord, who is Jesus Christ, Angel's are created beings, as Michael and Gabriel were created

Jude 1:9KJV
9 Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.

 

[GodMyFortress]

I follow a strict solo scriptura path.

I believe Jesus is referred to as Michael, the arch angel simply because of the meaning of arch angel: It's the chief messenger. There is no more messenger in chief than the Lord Jesus himself. He is the word. That's my rationale for my understanding that Michael the arch angel is our "Messenger in Chief," the Lord Jesus. Further, because God refers to Jesus as "David" in some instances, it is not a stretch of the imagination to understand that Jesus goes by many names as how God teaches by them.

Paul says in Colossians 1:15 that Jesus is the image of the invisible God. Therefore, the Angel of the Lord is Jesus Christ.

In Judges Chapter 13, Manoah and his wife realized they saw God when the Angel of the Lord accepted and did "wondrously" their offering.

In Exodus 3, the Angel of the Lord appeared to Moses in a flame of fire (Exodus 3:2) and identifies himself as God calling out to Moses from the midst of the bush (Exodus 3:4) and in his conversation with Moses, identified himself as "the God of thy father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob." (Exodus 3:6)

In Genesis Chapter 16, when Hagar fled from Sarai, the Angel of the Lord spoke with her in the wilderness and "And the angel of the LORD said unto her, I will multiply thy seed exceedingly, that it shall not be numbered for multitude." (Genesis 16:10) Further, she recognized that she had been visited by God and called the name of the Lord that spoke to her "Thou God seest me: for she said, Have I also here looked after him that seeth me?" (Genesis 16:13) Further, the well is called Beerlahairoi which is "well of the Living One seeing me" (Genesis 16:14) Further, Kadesh and Bered mean (Kadesh = holy) and Bered = hail. The whole place is described by God in this event with Hagar and the Angel of the Lord as God seeing Hagar and saving her son and blessing him. Angels bring tidings, not blessings.

In Genesis Chapter 22:11-12, The Angel of the Lord calls out to stop Abraham from slaying Isaac and declares himself to be God when he says, "... seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only son from me."

It is notable that the Angel of the Lord no longer appears after the birth of Jesus.

For these reasons and others I may not have thought to cite here, I believe the Angel of the Lord is our Lord Jesus Christ.

This man is the poster child for Sola Scriptura in action.

 

[Truth7t7]

That's true, there are a few coming to faith now in their Messiah, but there will be a great ingathering when many finally cry out to Him due to the Great Tribulation..

Prediction:

Luke 13:35 (KJV) Behold, your house is left unto you desolate: and verily I say unto you, Ye shall not see me, until the time come when ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.

To be fulfilled:

Zechariah 12:10 (KJV) And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.

Only the Remnant will be saved calling on the Lord, 2/3 will be cut off and die in Jerusalem during the fulfilling of the gentiles in Jerusalem, Zechariah 13:8

 

[crossnote]

I don't understand that entire verse. But, I do understand that if God is careful to inform us that Michael is the Arch Angel, then God is telling us that he is the Lord Jesus Christ.

Where in Scripture does God equate Jesus=Michael the Arch Angel?

As for "the Lord rebuke thee," that could be alerting the reader to the upcoming judgment the Lord is yet to carry out. I don't know, because this whole verse is mysterious to me. So I speculate on that.

No need to speculate.
In vs 6 Jude introduces angels which are greater than men, then he introduces Michael the Archangel which is the greatest of the angels and shows not even he in his disputation with (the demoted angel, satan) brought an accusation, yet these dreamers had no problem despising authority vs.8.
It's all about chain of authority.

 

[crossnote]

Only the Remnant will be saved calling on the Lord, 2/3 will be cut off and die in Jerusalem during the fulfilling of the gentiles in Jerusalem, Zechariah 13:8

Right, and...?

 

[OrphanedRepublican]

Where in Scripture does God equate Jesus=Michael the Arch Angel?


No need to speculate.
In vs 6 Jude introduces angels which are greater than men, then he introduces Michael the Archangel which is the greatest of the angels and shows not even he in his disputation with (the demoted angel, satan) brought an accusation, yet these dreamers had no problem despising authority vs.8.
It's all about chain of authority.

Of all the messengers, who is greater than Jesus? None. That's why he is Michael, the Arch Angel.

But, perhaps you are working on the assumption that Jesus isn't a messenger at all. If that's the case, what is the point of the scriptures?

I understand Michael the Arch Angel to be the Lord Jesus because by definition alone (definition of arch angel) it identifies the Lord Jesus.

 

[OrphanedRepublican]

This man is the poster child for Sola Scriptura in action.

I'm not a man, thanks, I guess.

 

[Runningman]

Of all the messengers, who is greater than Jesus? None. That's why he is Michael, the Arch Angel.

But, perhaps you are working on the assumption that Jesus isn't a messenger at all. If that's the case, what is the point of the scriptures?

I understand Michael the Arch Angel to be the Lord Jesus because by definition alone (definition of arch angel) it identifies the Lord Jesus.

The Bible teaches that Jesus is God and is in a place where He is higher than the angels and is worshipped by angels. Definitely no case to make that Jesus is Michael the archangel.

Hebrews 1:1-8

1God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, 2Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; 3Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high; 4Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.
5For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?
6And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.
7And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.
8But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

 

[OrphanedRepublican]

Thanks, I disagree with the teaching Michael the Arch Angel s Jesus Christ,

As clearly seen below, Michael referred to the Lord, who is Jesus Christ, Angel's are created beings, as Michael and Gabriel were created

Jude 1:9KJV
9 Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.

Another person brought that verse up to me as well. I don't understand the verse pertaining to the dispute about Moses body, but that does not change my opinion to Michael the Arch Angel being the Lord Jesus. The reason that does not change my mind is because the devil is yet to be rebuked by the Lord. It is likely that Jesus said this to alert the readers (among other things) that the devil is to be rebuked.

The definition of arch angel alone identifies Michael the Arch Angel to be the Lord Jesus.

If you discount Jesus being a messenger at all, then you have a different spiritual hierarchy than what I've seen in the bible.

 

[Rondonmon]

I really don’t think it will matter because the Jews believe the Messiah will just be a man. That’s why they reject Christ because he told them he was God. But the AC will eventually claim he is God which will lose any support he had among the Jews anyway.

This is THE VERSE all these guys get wrong who think the Jews accept the Ati-Christ (beside the thinking that a Covenant has to be a Godly agreement). It's John 5:43 IN BOLD BELOW.

John 5:42 But I know you, that ye have not the love of God in you. 43 I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive. 44 How can ye believe, which receive honour one of another, and seek not the honour that cometh from God only?

Jesus is speaking SPECIFICALLY to these Jewish Pharisees/leaders of the day, not to Jews 2000 some odd years later. He is prophesying about people who LIVED when he lived and thus who rejected him as the Son of God/Messiah, but who later on accepted OTHER MEN who came in their own names as the Messiah.

What was Jesus speaking about? Well, we know the Jewish leaders rejected Jesus and plotted to have him killed. We also know that 40 some odd years later say 32 years later, which takes us to 65 AD, these same Jewish leaders (many still alive) sought out a Messianic figure to save them from the Roman Fourth Beast, they understood Rome to be the Fourth Beast, so when things started getting bad around 65 AD they sought to "BRING FORTH" this "Messianic Political Savior" as they saw him being.

So, modern-day enthusiasts, not realizing this prophetic utterance by Jesus was fulfilled in 70 AD, run around telling everyone the bible says the Jews are going to accept the coming Anti-Christ, thus they RATIONALIZE he has to be a Jew, they would never "ACCEPT" a Muslim (true) or a Gentile King (also true) as their Messiah. The problem is, it's not about the END TIMES, thus they go down rabbit holes all because they do not understand scriptures. And when explained, they get as irrational as the Pharisees did when Jesus spoke truth unto them. The Jews never accept another Messiah, most f the Jews (2/3) who refuse to repent (Zechariah 13:8-9) are the Atheist types !! They don't even believe in God. Meanwhile, the 1/3 repent, flee Judea unto the mountains when they see the AoD (Image of the E.U. President in the Temple) because they repent before the DOTL. The 2/3 are laughing at them, there s no God in their minds, they are worldly creatures. Now, as under Jason and Antiochus, they WILL ACCEPT this Anti-Christ rule, they just do not accept him as a Messianic Figure, because they don't believe in God. They see what they think are 3=5 million Jews fleeing for the mountains as fools, they accept their "HELENIZATION" so to speak (Worldliness). Not knowing that this main is gaining their trust in order to eventually kill them. They see it like this. They want to be to the E.U. as Hawaii is to the United States, they want a PROTECTOR, not a Messianic Savior. They get a Tyrant Maniacal Beast, but they are not accepting anyone as their Messiah, it's just bad pastoral teachings that take us down these rabbit holes.

 

[OrphanedRepublican]

The Bible teaches that Jesus is God and is in a place where He is higher than the angels and is worshipped by angels. Definitely no case to make that Jesus is Michael the archangel.

Hebrews 1:1-8

1God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, 2Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; 3Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high; 4Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.
5For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?
6And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.
7And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.
8But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

From this I see that you don't believe Jesus is a messenger. The fact that God spoke to people in dreams and visions, because he wrote the scriptures, because he sent Jesus who is the word, all these things teach me that God is the messenger in chief.

A chief of the angels is better than the rank and file angels. (Philipians 2:9) An angel is a messenger. People are angels as well. I may be an angel telling you these things from the Scripture. You may be an angel telling me these things from the Scriptures. Who is our chief messenger? The Angel of the Lord, the Word himself, Lord Jesus Christ. Anyone coming with the word of God is a messenger. Prophets were angels. People that spread the gospel and God's Holy word are messenging God's word. That makes them angels as well. Therefore, who is the chief messenger above all angels? Michael, the Arch Angel, the Lord Jesus Christ himself.

Jesus has been exalted above all in the heavens. And why wouldn't he be? He's God and he's Michael, the Arch Angel. He is the living, breathing teacher of the Word to all creations. There is no angel above Michael, the Arch Angel.

 

[Runningman]

From this I see that you don't believe Jesus is a messenger. The fact that God spoke to people in dreams and visions, because he wrote the scriptures, because he sent Jesus who is the word, all these things teach me that God is the messenger in chief.

A chief of the angels is better than the rank and file angels. (Philipians 2:9) An angel is a messenger. People are angels as well. I may be an angel telling you these things from the Scripture. You may be an angel telling me these things from the Scriptures. Who is our chief messenger? The Angel of the Lord, the Word himself, Lord Jesus Christ. Anyone coming with the word of God is a messenger. Prophets were angels. People that spread the gospel and God's Holy word are messenging God's word. That makes them angels as well. Therefore, who is the chief messenger above all angels? Michael, the Arch Angel, the Lord Jesus Christ himself.

Jesus has been exalted above all in the heavens. And why wouldn't he be? He's God and he's Michael, the Arch Angel. He is the living, breathing teacher of the Word to all creations. There is no angel above Michael, the Arch Angel.

The verses I just showed you go to great lengths to differentiate Jesus from angels and sets Him in exact equality with God.

Jesus is a messenger, yes, but not Michael or an angelic being. Jesus is God and He created everything and identical to God is every way, not Michael.

Hebrews 1:2-3
2Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; 3Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

 

[ResidentAlien]

The final antichrist will be an Assyrian. Isaiah speaks of him.

Just search all scripture references of “Assyrian” mentioned in the book of Isaiah.

That's an excellent point.

 

[ResidentAlien]

Daniel 11:37 actually says: "He shall pay no attention to the gods [’ĕ·lō·hê, plural] of his fathers. . ." To me this suggests a pagan background.

 

[GodMyFortress]

Of all the messengers, who is greater than Jesus? None. That's why he is Michael, the Arch Angel.

But, perhaps you are working on the assumption that Jesus isn't a messenger at all. If that's the case, what is the point of the scriptures?

I understand Michael the Arch Angel to be the Lord Jesus because by definition alone (definition of arch angel) it identifies the Lord Jesus.

If he is Michael, then why is Jesus being worshiped in heaven in Revelation Ch 5: 13-14? This is the same problem the JW have. Only God is worthy of worship, not angels or anything else.