Support Israel? Yes or No? And Why?

[Truth7t7]

I think we are misunderstanding each other. This is true above but when I speak of supporting Israel the nation I support the prophetic will for the nation of Israel in the end times. This is still the location of Jerusalem where Christ will reign. Gentiles have been grafted in, but I wasn't speaking of just people as individuals but as the place and nation.

Gentiles Have Been Grafted Into The Promise By Faith In Jesus Christ, And The Remnant Jew Also, The Church

(Two Israel's Are Seen Below)

(1) Israel The Church, Children Of The Promised Seed

(2) National Ethnic Israel

The Church is the Israel of God, children of the promised seed

They which are the children of the flesh (Jews) these are not the children of God

Romans 9:6-8KJV
6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all (1)Israel, which are of (2)Israel:
7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

Galatians 3:29KJV
29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

 

[Truth7t7]

This is still the location of Jerusalem where Christ will reign.

Jesus Christ returns in fire and final judgement, dissolving the heavens and earth, as the New Heavens, Earth, Jerusalem are revealed for eternity

Many falsely teach Jesus Christ will return to earth, taking a literal throne of David in Jerusalem, to start a Millennial Kingdom on this earth, with mortal humans present?

This figure will be the Man Of Sin, The False Christ, The Antichrist, "Beware"!

Jesus Christ Wont Be Found Any Place Upon This Earth, And He Warned His Followers Of The End Time Deception

"Believe it Not" "Go Not Forth"

Matthew 24:23-27KJV
23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
25 Behold, I have told you before.
26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

The Future False Christ And False Prophet "Beware"!

Revelation 13:11-13KJV
11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.
12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.
13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,

Revelation 19:20KJV
20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

 

[surfer14]

Did Paul?

Certainly. But he repented and put his faith in Jesus. Before he died.

Are you guys saying that a jew, who dies hating Jesus, will get some kind of second chance? That's what I want to know. Please try to give me the simplest answer you can.

I think that if you say "yes" then that sounds like a dual-covenant thing. If you say "no", then I fail to see how these jews are so special. How are they the "apple of God's eye" if they don't get treated any differently? What would be the point?

 

[Truth7t7]

Not really. He is just confused. You have already answered his question. A remnant, plus 144,000, and then the millennium period. Of course, many will deny in the remnant period. Many will as only 144,000 in the tribulation. Then all will who survives unto the millennium will also come to Christ. This nation of God will be surrounded by all the nations of the Earth before Christ sends Satan into his eternal fire.

There Will Be No 1,000 Year Millennial Kingdom Upon This Earth, Jesus Christ Returns In Fire And Final Judgement, Dissolving This Existing Earth By Fire, Immediately After The Tribulation.

This Existing Heaven And Earth Will Be (Replaced) By The New Heaven, Earth, Jerusalem, A New Creation, At The Return Of Jesus Christ!

(Behold, I Make All Things New)

2 Peter 3:10-13KJV
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Revelation 21:1-5KJV
1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

Matthew 24:29-30KJV
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

1 Corinthians 3:13KJV
13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

Luke 17:29-30KJV
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

2 Thessalonians 1:7-9KJV
7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

Malachi 3:2KJV
2 But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap:

Psalm 46:6KJV
6 The heathen raged, the kingdoms were moved: he uttered his voice, the earth melted.

Psalm 50:3KJV
3 Our God shall come, and shall not keep silence: a fire shall devour before him, and it shall be very tempestuous round about him.

Psalm 97:5KJV
5 The hills melted like wax at the presence of the Lord, at the presence of the Lord of the whole earth.

Isaiah 66:15KJV
15 For, behold, the Lord will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire.

Zechariah 14:12KJV
12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the Lord will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.

Nahum 1:5-6KJV
5 The mountains quake at him, and the hills melt, and the earth is burned at his presence, yea, the world, and all that dwell therein.
6 Who can stand before his indignation? and who can abide in the fierceness of his anger? his fury is poured out like fire, and the rocks are thrown down by him.

Revelation 20:9KJV
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

 

[crossnote]

KJV
6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all (1)Israel, which are of (2)Israel:
7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed

Not all the natural descendents of Abraham are Israel only the natural descendants that believe are Israel. That is Paul's point. It fails at making the case that the Church is Israel. Reread the passage.

 

[Truth7t7]

The church will be raptured before these events of the tribulation. The church age will be over.

Your claim is false, a pre-trib rapture is found no place in scripture

A false teaching promoted by John N. Darby and Adulterer C.I. Scofield, better known as dispensationalism

 

[OldSage]

Kayla,
Serious question:
I'm assuming you mean genetic jews are the apple of God's eye? If so, then with all the cross breeding and such that's happened over the years, how much purity do you think God is looking for? I mean I'm sure God considers a 100% jew to be a jew. But what if that jew had kids with a 100% pure goy? Offspring would only be 50% jew. Do you figure the 50% jews are still the apple of God's eye? What about the 25% jews? Or even less? What about these people that get their 23andme results back and they have trace amounts of jew in them? Are those people still favored by God over everyone else? I would think not, because if everyone is special, then no-one is special. How does this even work?

Well Surfer, that is just one of the million dollar questions. But in fact it is easy. An old covenant Israelite continues to be physically circumcised into Sinitic Law. Anyone, with certain restrictions, could become an Israelite, so genes are not really the kicker. That being said, to harmonize Scripture - are we talking Bee Gees or Beach Boys here? - it is clear that modern day Jews clearly have also a physical ancestry. One only has to look at the Cohen name to see that. Or consider that when we look at certain people it is often self-evident that they are of Jewish extraction.

The simple act of physical circumcision denies Christ.

 

[crossnote]

There Will Be No 1,000 Year Millennial Kingdom Upon This Earth, Jesus Christ Returns In Fire And Final Judgement, Dissolving This Existing Earth By Fire, Immediately After The Tribulation.

I guess God just doesn't keep His promises...all those promises He gave to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob's descendants.
ooops, or does He?

For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.
(Rom 11:29)

 

[Truth7t7]

Not all the natural descendents of Abraham are Israel only the natural descendants that believe are Israel. That is Paul's point. It fails at making the case that the Church is Israel. Reread the passage.

I strongly disagree, Roman's 9:6-8 clearly speaks of a "Fleshly" Israel, these are not the children of God

Romans 9:6-8KJV
6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

 

[Truth7t7]

I guess God just doesn't keep His promises...all those promises He gave to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob's descendants.
ooops, or does He?

For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.
(Rom 11:29)

Only the false promises of John N. Darby & Adulterer C.I. Scofield in Christian Zionism's Dual Covenant Theology, better known as dispensationalism

Many have taken the false teachings hook, line, and sinker

 

[crossnote]

A false teaching promoted by John N. Darby and Adulterer C.I. Scofield, better known as dispensationalism

and A.C. Gabelein, Sir Robert Anderson, Lewis Sperry Chafer, Arnold Fruchtenbaum etc..luminaries which would make your eschatology seem like Kindergarten dribble.
The point isn't by who or when Dispensational teaching got started but 'is it Biblical?' That is the main point.

 

[crossnote]

I strongly disagree, Roman's 9:6-8 clearly speaks of a "Fleshly" Israel, these are not the children of God

Romans 9:6-8KJV
6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

Children of the flesh refer to ones like Saul or Esau, they were Jewish but not true believers. In contrast Esau and David were. Reread again.

 

[crossnote]

Only the false promises of John N. Darby & Adulterer C.I. Scofield in Christian Zionism's Dual Covenant Theology, better known as dispensationalism

Many have taken the false teachings hook, line, and sinker

I hope your arguments can go further than Ad Hominems (see post #571).

 

[OldSage]

The Church is just Israel grown-up. New Covenant Israel as promised throughout scripture. God however chose in his infinite wisdom to keep some of Old Covenant Israel - more commonly called 'The Jews' - in the chattels of the Old Covenant. Eventually their hearts of stone will be replaced by hearts of flesh. God is an incredible surgeon.

This is true, we are all heirs by FAITH ALONE. But Paul was actually saying just the opposite of what many people infer in Galatians 3, he was telling the Galatians, Hey guys, you don't have to try to be Jews to be of God, we are all of God by FAITH ALONE. But he never says nr infers that there is no Israel any longer, no more than he infers there will be a UNISEX (no males or females) from now (then) on. There are no Greeks nor Jess there are no Males nor Females. The same ones who do say that the Church has taken the place of Israel (not you) never answer me when I ask them are there still males and females because it proves Paul wasn't saying what they try to teach, that the Church has taken the spot Israel once had.

Paul was just chastising the Galatians for trying to be Jews (keeping the Laws etc) to be of God instead of understanding all they needed to be of God was FAITH. The Law was added 30 years later.

 

[Truth7t7]

and A.C. Gabelein, Sir Robert Anderson, Lewis Sperry Chafer, Arnold Fruchtenbaum etc..luminaries which would make your eschatology seem like Kindergarten dribble.
The point isn't by who or when Dispensational teaching got started but 'is it Biblical?' That is the main point.

You forgot (Adulterer Hal Lindsey) & Sci Fi Left Behind Writer (Tim La Haye) both Dallas Theological Cemetary Alumni

The main scripture used by supporters of the pre-trib rapture is 1 Thess 4:15-17 below, this is nothing more than the (Second Coming) (Last Day) resurrection, not a Pre-Trib rapture.

1. Is a resurrection of the believer seen in 1 Thess 4:15-17 below, 100% yes!

2. Does this resurrection take place on the (Last Day) as Jesus Christ taught below in John 6:39-40, 100% yes!

3. Is the (Last Day) the time of final judgement as Jesus Christ taught in John 12:48 below, 100% yes!

Many deny the truth of Gods words below, that are simple, clear, and very easy to understand.

(THE SECOND COMING, LAST DAY RESURRECTION)

1 Thessalonians 4:15-17KJV
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

(THE LAST DAY RESURRECTION)

John 6:39-40KJV
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

(THE LAST DAY JUDGEMENT)

John 12:48KJV
48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

 

[crossnote]

You forgot (Adulterer Hal Lindsey) & Sci Fi Left Behind Writer (Tim La Haye) both Dallas Theological Cemetary Alumni

More ad hominem? Again, is that the best you can do? I can find lots of garbage in the non-Dispy camp. LOL

 

[Truth7t7]

The Church is just Israel grown-up. New Covenant Israel as promised throughout scripture. God however chose in his infinite wisdom to keep some of Old Covenant Israel - more commonly called 'The Jews' - in the chattels of the Old Covenant. Eventually their hearts of stone will be replaced by hearts of flesh. God is an incredible surgeon.

It should be every Christian's prayer that hearts of stone in all the world find Jesus Christ, not based upon race or heritage

(For God So Loved The World)

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

What do you mean 'entirely about Israel'? It seems a bit of a sweeping statement, given that people of all tribes of the earth mourn when Jesus returns, etc etc.

Can you point us to verses in Scripture using the word "tribe" or "tribes" that is speaking of anyone other than Israel (the tribes of Israel)?


I'll help you out, for starters...

--"tribe" 297x total (from what I can see)...

--"tribes" 111x


https://www.biblegateway.com/quicksearch/?quicksearch=tribe&version=KJV


Please point them out to us.

Thanks.





____________

[compare with the phrases such like are found in Rev5:9, for example]

 

[OldSage]

It should be every Christian's prayer that hearts of stone in all the world find Jesus Christ, not based upon race or heritage

(For God So Loved The World)

Without race and heritage there would have been no Israel and no Jesus though. And without heritage there would be no Church, as we inherit the promises of Abraham. In fact we are heirs to Israel. That is pretty mind-blowing 7.

Even desolate Jerusalem, the cursed Jews, have been used by God for a specific purpose for 2000 years.

 

[OldSage]

Can you point us to verses in Scripture using the word "tribe" or "tribes" that is speaking of anyone other than Israel (the tribes of Israel)?


I'll help you out, for starters...

--"tribe" 297x total (from what I can see)...

--"tribes" 111x


https://www.biblegateway.com/quicksearch/?quicksearch=tribe&version=KJV


Please point them out to us.

Thanks.





____________

[compare with the phrases such like are found in Rev5:9, for example]

Phyle is used 6 times in Revelation, always in the context of all humankind I think. I hope that helps