Who is the beast that was and is not?

ewq1938 · May 14, 2021

The beast isn't the Holy Roman Empire. Sure, that was a type and shadow of what's coming but the beast empire will be far larger and more powerful than Rome ever dreamed of being.

The heads don't rise or fall. They are simply areas of land where the horns/kings will have their kingdoms. America is a head, England is a head etc.

ewq1938 · May 14, 2021

Runningman said:

But it does say people who have the mark OR the other two things. Sounds like it is neither the name or that number. I think it could be something that represents the beast and his name, maybe a dragon or some logo.

Ahwatukee · May 15, 2021

Runningman said:

Etching is not the only meaning for Charagma:

Strong's Concordance
charagma: a stamp, impress
Original Word: χάραγμα, ατος, τό
Part of Speech: Noun, Neuter
Transliteration: charagma
Phonetic Spelling: (khar'-ag-mah)
Definition: a stamp, impress
Usage: sculpture; engraving, a stamp, sign.

HELPS Word-studies
5480 xáragma – properly, an engraving (etching); (figuratively) a mark providing undeniable identification, like a symbol giving irrefutable connection between parties.

5480 /xáragma ("brand-mark") was originally any impress on a coin or a seal, used by an engraver on a die (stamp, branding iron). 5480 (xáragma) later became "the identification-marker" (like with an owner's unique "brand-mark").

The fact is that we already have people being chipped under the skin of the hand and are using that to make purchases, which would fit the bill for buying.

My take on the 'number of his name' is that, just as there are bank codes, country codes, branch codes, etc., contained within the debit or credit card strip, the number of his name could be imbedded within the data on the device that becomes the mark.

Well, the RFID chip is not visible and is being used to make purchases. I have always said that this technology will evolve into something smaller and more applicable in preparation for that coming beasts. Whatever the device ends up being, what will remain consistent will be that it will be located on/in the hand or the forehead and will be the only way that people will be able to digitally buy and sell.

I have never disqualified any of those things you mentioned above.

Rondonmon · May 15, 2021

john832 said:

The 7th Beast is a MAN, who never passes his kingdom on as all the others did. Hes not gay (he may be, but Scriptures do not say that in any wise), at least that is not what the scriptures foretell of that verse, that's a misreading.

Look at the verse again, what would be OVERKILL for the writer there? Using REGARD three times there would make no sense dramatically speaking, its OBVIOUS the writing us says he has NO REGARDS for all three of these things.

He shall not regard the God of his fathers (I think this means Allah, he is an Assyrian, born in Greece, who rises to power in the E.U.) thus I see him as an Atheist who laughs at all gods because he of course thinks he is god!! Continuing on............

it says NOR THE DESIRE OF WOMEN.........but the regards is not used here, the writer is correct to not place another regard in between the other two, it is not needed, we understand, or should, he is saying THIS....... Nor does he [REGARD] the desire of woman, in other words, Nor does he care what women think, he has no REGARDS for their thoughts at all !!

Then lastly it says nor regard for ANY god because he will exalt himself above all other gods (He is an Atheist).

Let's do it again, in REAL WORDS.

Dan 11:37 He shall regard neither the God of his fathers nor [WILL HE REGARD] the desire of women, nor regard any god; for he shall exalt himself above them all.
It doesn't mean he's a Homosexual, it is pretty basic stuff, it means he doesn't;t regard women's thoughts or input.

ewq1938 · May 15, 2021

Rondonmon said:

None of that is found in the bible.

Rondonmon · May 15, 2021

ewq1938 said:

Not by you, because you don't understand the bible. Thats apparent.

ewq1938 · May 15, 2021

Rondonmon said:

Not by you either. Go ahead and show us where this is found in the bible:

"(I think this means Allah, he is an Assyrian, born in Greece, who rises to power in the E.U.)"

Rondonmon · May 16, 2021

ewq1938 said:

Why don't you now the scriptures I am citing/ You should. Then when I take the time to show you, you evade my posts because have proven you in error. You duck and hide, when someone outs your obvious wrongs, at least man up and answer the reply. There are countless times I have taken the time to do this, and you run off and never admit you were wrong on a subject, I don't get that tbh.

Isaiah 10:12 Wherefore it shall come to pass, that when the Lord hath performed his whole work upon mount Zion and on Jerusalem, I will punish the fruit of the stout heart of the king of Assyria, and the glory of his high looks.

Isaiah 10:20 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the remnant of Israel, and such as are escaped of the house of Jacob, shall no more again stay upon him that smote them; but shall stay upon the Lord, the Holy One of Israel, in truth. 21 The remnant shall return, even the remnant of Jacob, unto the mighty God.(Zechariah 13:8-9 says 1/3 of the Jews REPENT)

22 For though thy people Israel be as the sand of the sea, yet a remnant of them shall return: the consumption decreed shall overflow with righteousness ( Daniels 70 weeks decree will end when Israel repents). 23 For the Lord God of hosts shall make a consumption, even determined, in the midst of all the land.

24 Therefore thus saith the Lord God of hosts, O my people that dwellest in Zion, be not afraid of the Assyrian: he shall smite thee with a rod, and shall lift up his staff against thee, after the manner of Egypt. 25 For yet a very little while, and the indignation shall cease, and mine anger in their destruction.

In verses 24 and 25 God says don't ab afraid of THE ASSYRIAN (Little Horn/Anti-Christ/Beast) he will smite them, like unto Egypt, and God did what in Egypt? He protected Israel with the EARTH (Wall of fire, Red Sea) and Rev 12 says the Earth swallows up the flood (Army of the Anti-Christ). Then God says, in just a LITTLE WHILE the INDIGNATION (70 weeks of Indignation/Anger against Israel) shall CEASE, and my anger in their r(The Wicked peoples) destruction.

In the very next chapter, we see this verse.............. Isaiah 11:6 The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together, and a little child shall lead them.

So, the Millennial reign comes right after the Assyrian is defeated. So, thus Anti-Christ has Assyrian heritage/blood, GET THAT?

As we see below, the HEART of Assyria was Nothern Iraq and Southern Turkey. So, this man will have Assyrian blood, not Syrian blood, but Assyrian blood in him, and that could be a small part of Syria also, but they were not the same thing. It grew and expanded, bu the heart of Assyria was Southern Turkey and Northern Iraq.

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In Daniel 8 we are shown the DIRECTION in which the Ati-Christ/Little Horn goes forth conquering. God gives us a simple FOUR CORNERS directional box, then tells us where this man Conquers TOWARDS, a 5th grader could decipher this, but we as grownups, OVERTHINHK it sadly.

Daniel 8:9 And out of one of them came forth a little horn, which waxed exceeding great, toward the south, and toward the east, and toward the pleasant land.

The pleasant land/Israel is a given, it has nothing to do with the direction, and of the Four would have conquered Israel in the End Times. The key is which DIRECTION via the four generals he CONQUERS TOWARDS. We had the Seleucid Empire, the Ptolomy Empire, and the Cassander Empire. Lysimachus was also around, but that one is not relevant in the End Times.

So, out of these FOUR, which the only one can Conquer TOWARDS the EAST and TOWARDS the SOUTH? Cassander or Greece. Remember, chapter 11 was all about an INTER KINGDOM STANDOFF !! But even if people want to go there, Egypt conquering Southward means nothing, Seleucid (Turkey) conquering towards the East means they would have to Conquer Iraq, Iran, and Russia, that ain't happening. The only one that can CONQUER both East, and South and the Pleasent Land is Greece or Cassander. Turn to Dan. 11:40-43, it gives us a play-by-play of this. He Conquers Egypt, Israel and rolls across Nations to get at Israel, coming from the Northwest (TOWARDS the East and South means he comes from the Northwest, this not that complex). Only Greece FITS !!

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Now, this Little Horn/Anti-Christ also has to fulfill Daniel 7, he can't just fulfill Israel 10 and Daniel 8, he has to fulfill Dan. 7 and ARISE out of the Fourth Beasts Head AMONGST the 10 which means Europe, as I have told you, but it just doesn't register with you it seems.

Dan. 7:7 After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth: it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it: and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it; and it had ten horns. (It split asunder into MANY FACTIONS for 2000 some odd years or 1600 some odd years)

8 I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn(Anti-Christ born IN Europe), before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things (This last Beast is a MAN).

9 I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit(Jesus rules so this Little Horn is END TIMES), whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire.

Is Greece is Europe? Yes, of course, it is. Is Turkey or Egypt in Europe? Of course, they are not !! So, what I wrote above, that you say is not in the Bible. I am a real Bible student and thus I studied the Bible and dug out these TRUTHS via deduction of facts and prayer. You act like God's Prophesies can be figured out by the multitudes, LOL. God gave us this THREE PRONGED Prophecy that has to be fitted together, and it probably couldn't be understood in full until the very end times (NOW).

So, he has to be an Assyrian (Turk) BY BLOOD, and he also has to be born IN Greece because he has to CONQUER coming out of the Northwest in the FOUR CORNERS DIRECTIONAL BOX. The Little Horn/Anti-Christ also has to ARISE to power out of the Fourth Beasts Headd by ARISING amongst the 10 (Divided Europe in full). What is it about coming out of the Fourth Beasts Head that you do not understand is Europe? Isn't Europe Northwest also?

So, if he has Turkish Blood by being the Assyrian (he does) then he's more than likely going to come from a Muslim-based family, I guess it's possible he could be from a Christian-based family, but very, very unlikely. Either way, this man is an Atheist because he refuses to REGARD the God of his father nor REGARD any God, meaning he is an Atheist. Thus he has to be born in Greece to CONQUER out f the Northwest AND in order to be born in Europe (Fourth Beast).

I don't guess, you seem to be guessing, I am just saying things you do not understand brother. It's not my fault you do not understand what I say.

ewq1938 · May 16, 2021

Rondonmon said:

I stopped reading here. That isn't talking about the little horn/AC. No scripture says his family were Muslims, nor that he is born in Greece, and zero about him rising to power in the E.U. It's all nonsense you made up.

Rondonmon · May 16, 2021

ewq1938 said:

I will just not reply to you anymore, you act like a coward when it comes to debate. When you see you are wrong you duck and hide. (LOL) As I forecast.

BigSky2021 · May 16, 2021

Kolistus said:

Can some of the brethren here help me unlock a few things:

Revelation 17:9-12
And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.
And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.
And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.
And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.

1. Who are the seven kings?

2. Who is the beast that was and is not? My guess would be something related to the Roman Empire as previously in the chapter it talks about purple and scarlet and being drunk with the blood of the saints and cup of abominations, all fit the Catholic Church.

3. Rome is called the city on seven hills so I am confident the mountains refer to that. I have heard some say Jerusalem is also called that, but I find Rome to be more likely as John is writing in code to avoid further Roman persecution I believe. It also says the city runs the kingdoms of the earth, that much more aligns with Vatican city where all the world leaders meet the Pope all the time and they are actively involved. Jerusalem doesn't really run things right now.

My opinion on the matter is probably not widely held. But I believe the beast spoken of is, Nimrod

For your consideration: https://days-of-noah.com/2019/03/22/nimrod-profile-of-the-antichrist/

Rondonmon · May 17, 2021

BigSky2021 said:

I see you specifically were replying unto his Revelation 17 Scarlet Colored Beast mention. Not trying to get in too deep as I am about to shower, and I can spend 40 minutes on an In dept post at times. But a Beast simply implies ANIMALISTIC LIKE DOMINANCE. This Babylon DOMINATED the Mediterranean Sea Region(MSR), as did Greece and did Rome etc.

But we know there are early powers and principalities in high places in the Spiritual world. We are given the Beast in each chapter by the CROWNS or lack thereof in each case.

In Rev. 12 we see the Dragon (Satan) has CROWNS on the 7 Heads because he is over this whole world, as we saw in Luke 4 when he tried to give all the kingdoms to Christ if he would only bow down and worship Satan. The Seven Mediterranean Heads are thus 7 Crowns Satan owns AND we see that he is still in Heaven, this the sign as in Heaven.

In Rev. 13 we see the Anti-Christ (who is a man) as 10 CROWNS on the 10 horns (Divided Europe which reunifies at the end times) and thus these 10 (Europe) give the power freely unto this one man, when he conquers Israel and the MSR, he becomes THE BEAST.

The Rev. 17 Scarlet Colored Beast has NO CROWNS because the Earth is Satan's Kingdom and he is not a physical being, he is a Demon named Apollyon who is the King of the bottomless pit, this he is an 8th King and is of THE SEVEN. (God and his majestic riddles). But he has NO CROWNS in Rev. 17, NOWHERE.

OrphanedRepublican · May 18, 2021

Ahwatukee said:

The antichrist was already in the world at the time Jesus was here. It can't be a man. A man doesn't have the life span. But, I'm glad some of you all understand this. I am completely clueless about the visions of Daniel, most of Revelation starting after Chapter 10 or 11 and the visions of Ezekiel.

But the antichrist we know was in the world with Jesus at that time. So, it can't be a man.

ewq1938 · May 18, 2021

OrphanedRepublican said:

The singular AC was not there at the time of Jesus.

John spoke of a singular and particular antichrist who was to yet come:

1 John 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

He says "now" there were many antichrists but does specifically speak of one certain antichrist (singular) that was yet to come which means John believed he was a future Antichrist. This is known as "the Antichrist" which is a specific Antichrist among all those who are antichrists.

John does not say how far into the future that this specific Antichrist would come but he did speak in the future tense.

OrphanedRepublican · May 18, 2021

BigSky2021 said:

That was an interesting blog. I had been wondering about Nimrod. I do think people have all sorts of differing opinions or understandings about the meaning of a mighty man or giant.

My understanding that mighty is referring to one that is great in spiritual knowledge. That would certainly describe satan.

Giant isn't always about stature. It too is another way of saying of one that is great in spiritual knowledge among men. But, sometimes it does mean stature.

The clue I noticed is the "hunter." Becoming a hunter before God. That certainly describes satan. Nimrod may be an image of satan who attempted to raise his own throne higher in the heavens than God's throne.

Truth7t7 · May 18, 2021

Runningman said:

I believe the mark "could be" simply identified as in the Satanic Cornu below, with a simple hand gesture?

This has been seen historically used amongst evil groups and individuals, common amongst Satanist, Rock Groups, Heavy Metal Followers?

Wikipedua: Sign of the horns

The sign of the horns is a hand gesture with a variety of meanings and uses in various cultures. It is formed by extending the index and little fingers while holding the middle and ring fingers down with the thumb.

A demonstration of the sign of the horns

Spiritual and superstitious meaning

Padmasambhava, the founder of Tibetan Buddhism, showing the Karana Mudrā. The statue is located in Namchi, India.
In Hinduism, a similar hand gesture – with the tips of middle and ring finger touching the thumb – is known as Apāna Mudrā, a yogic gesture believed to rejuvenate the body.[1] In Indian classical dance forms, it symbolises the lion.[1] In Buddhism, the Karana Mudrā is seen as an apotropaic gesture to expel demons, remove negative energy, and ward off evil. It is commonly found on depictions of Gautama Buddha.[1][2] It is also found on the Song dynasty statue of Laozi, the founder of Taoism, on Mount Qingyuan, China.[3]

A satyr showing the corna, plaquette by a North Italian artist, late 15th century AD
The apotropaic usage of the sign can also be seen in Italy and in other Mediterranean cultures where, when confronted with unfortunate events, or simply when these events are mentioned, the sign of the horns may be given to ward off further bad luck. It is also used traditionally to counter or ward off the "evil eye" (malocchio in Italian). In Italy specifically, the gesture is known as the corna ("horns"). With fingers pointing down, it is a common Mediterranean apotropaic gesture, by which people seek protection in unlucky situations (a Mediterranean equivalent of knocking on wood). The President of the Italian Republic Giovanni Leone startled the media when, while in Naples during an outbreak of cholera, he shook the hands of patients with one hand while with the other behind his back he superstitiously made the corna, presumably to ward off the disease or in reaction to being confronted by such misfortune. This act was well documented by the journalists and photographers who were right behind him, a fact that had escaped President Leone's mind in that moment.[citation needed]

In Italy and other parts of the Mediterranean region, the gesture must usually be performed with the fingers tilting downward to signify the warding off of bad luck; in the same region and elsewhere, the gesture may take a different, offensive and insulting meaning if it is performed with fingers upward or if directed aggressively towards someone in a swiveling motion (see section below). In Italy, one can also "touch iron" (tocca ferro) or touch one's nose to ward off bad luck. Males in Italy may also grab their testicles when confronted by bad luck; however, this is considered more vulgar.

In Peru one says contra (against). In the Dominican Republic the expression is zafa, said against curses known as fukú. All of these gestures are meant to conjure supernatural protection.

The sign of the horns is used during religious rituals in Wicca, to invoke or represent the Horned god.[4]

Ahwatukee · May 18, 2021

OrphanedRepublican said:

Below is what John says regarding the antichrist:

"Dear children, this is the last hour; and as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come. This is how we know it is the last hour."

So, there is a specific man who was prophesied of coming who is thee antichrist and there are people upon the earth who have spirits like that of the antichrist which are those who deny that Jesus is the Christ. Such a person is the antichrist--denying the Father and the Son.

So there are types of antichrists in the world and there is one specific individual who is coming who is thee antichrist, which is the one who will stand in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God or anything that is called god or worshipped. He's the one who will have the abomination set up in the temple. And he is the one who will make war against and conquer the great tribulation saints.

"The king will do as he pleases. He will exalt and magnify himself above every god and will say unheard-of things against the God of gods. He will be successful until the time of wrath is completed, for what has been determined must take place. He will show no regard for the gods of his ancestors or for the one desired by women, nor will he regard any god, but will exalt himself above them all.

The scripture above is speaking about that coming antichrist. Notice that it states that "He will show no regards for the gods of his ancestors. Having ancestors demonstrates that he has a human ancestral linage, making him a literal man.

There were types of antichrists in the world at the time of Christ and at the time John wrote his letter. However, the antichrist, that man of lawlessness, is still being held back from being revealed by the Restrainer until his proper time.

OrphanedRepublican · May 19, 2021

Ahwatukee said:

Here's the verse I was thinking of when I said that:

1 John 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

You're explanation is confusing and doesn't quite make sense to me. It's just that an antichrist is one individual in the above verse is speaking about one spirit singular and is come. I get you're saying the single spirit is in multitudes of people. But, it's confusing to me.

There is the one image that is to come that will perform wondrous miracles and bring fire and brimstone down on earth in the sight of people. That image and the beast (2 beings) might have something to do with this? This image is not yet here?

It's confusing. I'm glad you understand it. For me, not so simple. The first 10 or so chapters of Revelation, I think I understand. The latter half of the book, not so much.

OrphanedRepublican · May 19, 2021

Ahwatukee said:

I was just reading about something that sounds like this in Ezekiel.

It starts in Ezekiel 30 when God says to speak to Pharaoh of Egypt. It goes on through Chapter 31. It goes on into Chapter 32 and it's a lamentation. It goes on into more chapters. Chapter 30, God says he's going to break the arms of Pharaoh. Chapter 31, he describes the tree that grew high with long branches and was going to be cast down. He says this tree is Pharaoh. In Chapter 32, God will bring him up out of the rivers and throw him in the open field. It's a lamentation for Pharoah.

Ahwatukee · May 19, 2021

OrphanedRepublican said:

Yes, that is the verse that I figured you were using. Notice that prior to that he is referring the "spirit of antichrist."

As I was saying, the spirit of the antichrist are those who deny that Jesus is the Christ. However, there is an individual person prophesied of who is to be revealed in the end times as that coming antichrist. So there are many who have a spirit like that of the antichrist, denying the Father and the Son. And there is a specific individual who will be thee antichrist who is prophesied of.

Well, I respect your honesty in this. It does take time in the word and prayer to understand these things, because it is the Holy Spirit who reveals them to us. For Jesus said regarding Him, "He will bring to your remembrance everything that I have told you and will reveal things yet to come."

Revelation 13 describes both the the first beast which is the antichrist and the second beast who is also referred to as the false prophet as revealed in Rev.16:13 & 19:20.

Another twist on this is the angel who is the beast who once was, now is not and yet will come. Where the antichrist is a literal man, this beast that comes up out of the Abyss is a fallen angel, as revealed in Rev.9:11 as the king of those demonic locusts at the sounding of the 5th trumpet. He's the same one that, after he has come out of the Abyss kills the two witnesses (Rev.11:7). He is also mentioned in Rev.17:8 & 11.

I believe that the antichrist/man of lawlessness, is the one who will establish his seven year covenant with Israel (Dan.9:27). And then when the beast, that fallen angel is released from the Abyss at the sounding of the 5th trumpet which is just prior to the middle of the seven years, he, that beast/angel will come up out of the Abyss and will be the spiritual power behind the antichrist which is when the antichrist breaks his covenant with Israel by causing the daily sacrifices and offerings to cease and sets up that abomination in the holy place within the temple. So I believe that there are two entities intertwined here, the antichrist who is a human being and the beast who is the angel of the Abyss who will empower him.

There are some who claim that Satan is the beast who comes out of the Abyss. However, that would mean that he would have been restricted in the Abyss from John's time to the present, which I do not believe. Satan will not be restricted in the Abyss until the Lord returns to end the age, which takes place after God's wrath has completed and which has not yet begun. In addition, Rev.13 states that Satan will give his power and authority to this coming beast/angel, which demonstrates that they are two individual fallen angels.

"And the dragon (Satan) gave the beast his power and his throne and great authority.

The second beast with two horns like a lamb, but speaks like a dragon, is the false prophet who will be the false religious entity of the group, who will perform miracles, signs and wonders on behalf of the first beast i.e. for the purpose of lending credibility to his claim of being God. I personally believe that this false prophet will be played by a future pope. I believe that the Roman Catholic church is that woman who rides the beast, i.e. that last day false religious system. Rome is that city that ruled over the kings of the earth at the time John was receiving that information from the angel. She is the one who sits on seven hills. And it states that the woman is dressed in purple and scarlet, which are the exact colors that the bishops and cardinals wear.

Who is the beast that was and is not?

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