Must we obey the law if we are under grace not law?

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Blik

Blik

Senior Member
#1
Dec 6, 2016
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#1
Rom_6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

When we are freed from our sins through grace we accept Christ within. Christ cannot live with sin, if we still want to sin we cannot have Christ within. We know that being human, our flesh leads us to sin, but Christ in His mercy simply asks us to repent of sin, and if we repent we do not want to sin.

Hebrews 10:26-31 For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a fearful expectation of judgment, and a fury of fire that will consume the adversaries. Anyone who has set aside the law of Moses dies without mercy on the evidence of two or three witnesses.

John 3:36 Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.
 
wattie

wattie

Senior Member
#3
Feb 24, 2009
3,229
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New Zealand
#3
A Christian saved by grace, is then under the New Testament covenant.

They would follow Jesus in response to His grace, by following Jesus's commands under the New Testament system of church service.

The ten commandments underpinning this service, but the old testament laws of service done away with eg.. mosaic laws.

Even following Jesus's commands in New Testament church system is still grace based, because none of the works as saved person does keeps their eternal life. Jesus does the keeping by His commitment having given eternal life to a believer.
 
Journeyman

Journeyman

Well-known member
#4
Jan 10, 2019
2,107
763
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#4
Since the purpose of the law is to show us that we are all sinners in need of God's mercy, by going to our Lord Jesus, we do fulfill the law.
 
Blik

Blik

Senior Member
#5
Dec 6, 2016
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#5
Journeyman said:
Since the purpose of the law is to show us that we are all sinners in need of God's mercy, by going to our Lord Jesus, we do fulfill the law.
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The law in stone tells us not to murder, the law in our hearts tells us not to murder except it defines murder. How do you mean "fulfill the law'? How does this relate to the law?

One way that the law is fulfilled is that we are forgiven for breaking the law. Scripture speaks a lot about obedience, how does obedience relate to fulfilling the law?
 
Blik

Blik

Senior Member
#6
Dec 6, 2016
7,312
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#6
Journeyman said:
Since the purpose of the law is to show us that we are all sinners in need of God's mercy, by going to our Lord Jesus, we do fulfill the law.
Click to expand...
You give one purpose of the law and you are ignoring loads of scripture giving additional purposes. Have you read the 119th Psalm? It speaks a lot about purposes of the law.
 
Dino246

Dino246

Senior Member
#7
Jun 30, 2015
25,369
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#7
Blik said:
Rom_6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

When we are freed from our sins through grace we accept Christ within.
Click to expand...
You have that backwards. When we acknowledge our need for salvation and accept Christ, then we are freed from our sins.


Blik said:
Christ cannot live with sin, if we still want to sin we cannot have Christ within.
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That's not how it works. Once we accept Christ, we begin the process of transformation. The Holy Spirit works in us to identify sin through conviction, and changes us so that our inclination to sin diminishes.

We can definitely "want to sin" AND have Christ within us. "The flesh is at war with the spirit". The key is that with the strength that Christ provides, we can overcome temptation and conquer sins one at a time.
 
H

Hungry

Banned
#8
Nov 26, 2012
3,095
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#8
Blik said:
Rom_6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

When we are freed from our sins through grace we accept Christ within. Christ cannot live with sin, if we still want to sin we cannot have Christ within. We know that being human, our flesh leads us to sin, but Christ in His mercy simply asks us to repent of sin, and if we repent we do not want to sin.

Hebrews 10:26-31 For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a fearful expectation of judgment, and a fury of fire that will consume the adversaries. Anyone who has set aside the law of Moses dies without mercy on the evidence of two or three witnesses.

John 3:36 Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.
Click to expand...
Sin may not have dominion over us but it doesn’t mean it can’t tempt us. We are still trapped in this flesh vessel tainted with worldly programming. We are adopted and grafted. Relationships and branches take time to fully connect. It’s a process.
 
OrphanedRepublican

OrphanedRepublican

Banned
#9
Apr 26, 2021
495
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#9
A lot of people view "the law" as the Mosaic laws handed down to Israel.

In fact, every word written in the Holy Scriptures, OT + NT qualify as the following:

1. Judgments
2. Testimonies
3. Laws
4. Precepts
5. Commandments
6. Statutes

Walking in them, following them, studying them, "lifting up your hands" to them, reading them, meditating on them, seeking them diligently is keeping them.

You might say, oh no! I'm not keeping God's laws because I ate pork.

The very good news is, "absorbing" God's word is to keep his commandments or his law, whichever term is used.

"lifting up your hands" to God's commandments is another way of saying, pick up your Bible, because God's words are "higher," therefore you are "lifting up your hands" to his commandments.

Psalm 119:48 My hands also will I lift up unto thy commandments, which I have loved; and I will meditate in thy statutes.

Psalm 119:4 Thou hast commanded us to keep thy precepts diligently.

"Keeping" the precepts means to study them diligently.

Because you obey diligently to keep (seek, walk, mediate, study) God's laws:

Psalm 119:1 ALEPH. Blessed are the undefiled in the way, who walk in the law of the LORD.
 
J

Jackson123

Senior Member
#10
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
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#10
Blik said:
When we are freed from our sins through grace we accept Christ within.
Click to expand...
What do you mean by "freed from sin"
A. No longer want to sin
B. No longer want to sin but do sin anyway
C. Because Jesus forgive sin, so freed from sin mean go ahead do sin, like rob the bank but still save, because save not by law but by grace.
 
ResidentAlien

ResidentAlien

Well-known member
#11
Apr 21, 2021
8,238
3,577
113
#11
Blik said:
Rom_6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

When we are freed from our sins through grace we accept Christ within. Christ cannot live with sin, if we still want to sin we cannot have Christ within. We know that being human, our flesh leads us to sin, but Christ in His mercy simply asks us to repent of sin, and if we repent we do not want to sin.

Hebrews 10:26-31 For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a fearful expectation of judgment, and a fury of fire that will consume the adversaries. Anyone who has set aside the law of Moses dies without mercy on the evidence of two or three witnesses.

John 3:36 Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.
Click to expand...
Hi there Blik.

The answer to your question is no, we are not under an obligation to keep the law. In fact, if we believe we must keep any part of it we're obligated to keep all of it—the whole thing (Galatians 5:3). The law only brings death (Romans 7:10). It makes us aware of our sinfulness (Romans 3:20).

So what then, are we free to keep on sinning so that grace may abound? Of course not. We've been set free from the law to walk in newness of Spirit. We should walk with Christ and the Holy Spirit, trying more and more to please God. :)
 
Blik

Blik

Senior Member
#13
Dec 6, 2016
7,312
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#13
Jackson123 said:
What do you mean by "freed from sin"
A. No longer want to sin
B. No longer want to sin but do sin anyway
C. Because Jesus forgive sin, so freed from sin mean go ahead do sin, like rob the bank but still save, because save not by law but by grace.
Click to expand...
When the Lord tells us we are freed from sin, the Lord is telling us that through faith our sin is forgiven and not longer means we will die.
 
J

Jackson123

Senior Member
#14
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
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#14
Blik said:
When the Lord tells us we are freed from sin, the Lord is telling us that through faith our sin is forgiven and not longer means we will die.
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It need more specific explanation

There are 2 believed
1. God forgive sin by faith, mean no matter what you do, example, keep rob the bank and murder still save, because forgiveb
N by faith not by work

2. Forgiven by faith, but must stop sinning or lost salvation.

Which is your believed
 
Blik

Blik

Senior Member
#15
Dec 6, 2016
7,312
2,428
113
#15
Jackson123 said:
It need more specific explanation

There are 2 believed
1. God forgive sin by faith, mean no matter what you do, example, keep rob the bank and murder still save, because forgiveb
N by faith not by work

2. Forgiven by faith, but must stop sinning or lost salvation.

Which is your believed
Click to expand...
It is man's idea to not accept all bible truths. Man says that if we are to repent of sin when we ask forgiveness, then the truth that God forgives any sin is cancelled. God tells us that when we repent, He will forgive all sin. The Lord tells us to repent.

The Lord tells us that we have become fleshly and it makes us unable to be perfect, and that perfection is required for salvation. We are told that we can have that perfection only through faith. Man twists this truth to say that being we can't be perfect without Christ, then it doesn't matter about being repentant of sin. That is man's idea, not the Lord's.
 
DeanM

DeanM

Well-known member
#17
May 4, 2021
549
315
63
#17
Journeyman said:
Since the purpose of the law is to show us that we are all sinners in need of God's mercy, by going to our Lord Jesus, we do fulfill the law.
Click to expand...
Hadnt thought of it that way. Good.
 
J

Jackson123

Senior Member
#18
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
1,371
113
#18
Blik said:
Man says that if we are to repent of sin when we ask forgiveness, then the truth that God forgives any sin is cancelled.
Click to expand...
What do you mean with this statement?

So you believe we don't need repent?

If we rob the bank for living, keep do because forgiveness is by faith not by work
Is that your believe?

Is you try to say repent is man idea, God never cancel His forgiveness no matter you repent or keep murder?
 
Blik

Blik

Senior Member
#19
Dec 6, 2016
7,312
2,428
113
#19
Jackson123 said:
What do you mean with this statement?

So you believe we don't need repent?

If we rob the bank for living, keep do because forgiveness is by faith not by work
Is that your believe?

Is you try to say repent is man idea, God never cancel His forgiveness no matter you repent or keep murder?
Click to expand...
My belief is that repentance it God's idea and the need for it is the truth. If we say that being under grace and not law means that in God's eyes we do not need to listen to law I think we do not understand God. In order to repent we need to know what we are to repent from and the law gives us this information.

We are to test the spirits, and that includes testing law. Law in stone must follow the basic law, and that basic law is love.
 
J

Jackson123

Senior Member
#20
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
1,371
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#20
Blik said:
In order to repent we need to know what we are to repent from and the law gives us this information.
Click to expand...
So what is the different between under tha law and under grace?

For example under law

Do not murder

Under grace

Murder not make you to hell because salvation not by work

Is that the different?
 
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