Cessationism vs. continuationism...does it make any difference?

[CS1]

Non of them all you mentioned taught it ( even Paul not) and expierienced it. ( except Paul)
I suppose you dont see the different between the gift of speaking in tongues ( which not everybody got- according Paul) and the speaking in tongues as evidence for beeing baptised with the Holy Spirit. Which is taught and expierienced in Topeka first.
And I asked for a proof for the last.

Ok Guy, You are ignorant. Please prove 1cor 13:8-10 where the gifts of the Holy Spirit have stopped as this is a thread on
Cessationism vs. continuationism

You won't see scripture, you won't see church history you don't know what the difference between normative and descriptive. You are stuck on Topeka yet you have not asked how did those in TOPEKA come up with the idea of initial EVIDENCE?

You do not have to agree but you have not refuted the teaching. You ask who else taught on the gifts of tongues I provided a great amount for you. BUT you come back with one-liners as I knew you would you did not even read what I posted.

 

[GRACE_ambassador]

they watch clowns on TV

Yes, 40 Years Ago, my experience, as a New-Born babe In CHRIST, had me "watching TV,"
{hungry for ALL The Word Of God!}, and your teacher TOLD me I could "simply put my
hand ON THE TV, And That God would grant me the gift" of speaking in tongues!

Result? Nothing...I believe I will stay With God's Word Of Truth, Rightly Divided,
{Which Has SOLVED ALL the Confusion about water, signs, prophecy, etc. for me},
Which "HE Led me to, 10 Years Later!

NO rubbishing, demonizing, or lambasting ANYONE, simply: "Fulfilling ALL The Law, In

ONE Word: LOVE my neighbor as myself!"

Be Blessed!

 

[CS1]

Correction: It is not written when Paul received the gift of speaking in tounges.

Oh yes, it was sir!!!

Acts 9:17-18

17 And Ananias went his way and entered the house; and laying his hands on him he said, “Brother Saul, the Lord [d]Jesus, who appeared to you on the road as you came, has sent me that you may receive your sight and be filled with the Holy Spirit.” 18 Immediately there fell from his eyes something like scales, and he received his sight at once, and he arose and was baptized.


Paul then said later on in his letter to 1 Corthinians 14:18

18 I thank my God I speak with tongues more than you all;

The Bible does say when it happens when Ananias laid His hands-on Saul who became paul. And Paul said in verse 18 HE spoke in tongues. So you are mistaken sir,

 

[GRACE_ambassador]

reasons I have just stated.

So, I take it God's Word is NOT "perfect," and Is NOT "magnified" ABOVE all HIS Name, and,
Therefore, I Cannot "trust" IT, even though YOU say "God Honors His word, no matter what
Imperfect "version" it is found in, Correct? Only the originals, now gone, WERE PERFECT,
Correct?

so much for "my faith"...

 

[PaulChristensen]

I am not going to say that because although there are what is known as "copiest discrepancies" because of fallible man, God still is able to keep His word. His word is inerrant and infallible. Although there is a minor issue God has provided enough special revelation from what we call the bible for :

1. Appropriate worship
2. and righteous living

99.9 % right and man own the 1% Not God. We are still saved by what we call the gospel that can be seen in the KJV, NKJV, NIV, NLT, AMP, NASB, ESV, and the living Bible.

God is able to keep his word in any translation that was committed to him in the origin of it. God honors His word.

Very true. Cessationists use the canon of written Scripture to prove their point concerning 1 Corinthians 13:8. I fully believe that the Word of God is entirely perfect, and Paul had that perfect Word of God that was taught to Him by the Holy Spirit when he wrote 1 Corinthians. This is why I said that the originals, penned or directly dictated by the New Testament writers reflected that perfect Word. But now we have imperfect copies, so although the essential Word contained in them is perfect, the written copies themselves are not. Now, in saying that, I believe that the imperfections are relatively minor and don't in any way detract from the completeness and truth of the Gospel. Even in a more imperfect translation like the New World JW Bible, the true Gospel shines through the attempts to make the Bible agree with JW doctrine. But I am not so sure about Joseph Smith's version of the Bible because he took away and added actually passages to make his version agree with Mormon doctrine.

The doctrine about the "inerrancy" of the Scriptures falls down because although it may be true for the originals that we don't have anymore, it cannot be true for most of our translations some of which come pretty close, but still fall short of absolute perfection; and the complicating factor is that we don't have a line on what was absolute perfection because we don't have the originals to refer to.

But some go to the opposite extreme by saying that the written Scriptures cannot be relied on literally, and that the Word of God is contained in them. But this gives rise to liberals choosing which parts of the Bible contain the Word of God and which doesn't. Their view deletes the virgin birth, miracles of Jesus, the historical Jesus, the personhood of God, and the resurrection of Christ as not being the Word of God for them. They choose the moral and ethical parts of the Bible as the Word of God for them.

Most cessationists believe in the inerrancy of the Scriptures by they contradict themselves by saying that parts of 1 Corinthians 12 and 14 no longer apply to modern Christians. They can't say that the Scriptures are infallible, and deny parts of it at the same time. That very principle along makes cessationism go down like a lead Zeppelin.

 

[CS1]

So, I take it God's Word is NOT "perfect," and Is NOT "magnified" ABOVE all HIS Name, and,
Therefore, I Cannot "trust" IT, even though YOU say "God Honors His word, no matter what
Imperfect "version" it is found in, Correct? Only the originals, now gone, WERE PERFECT,
Correct?

so much for "my faith"...

yes God word is Perfect when HE said it and it is recorded as men were carried long to write it. But we do not worship the Bible. God's word is to be lived and the BIBLE is just a Book until men and women act upon God's word in faith. The word of God is powerful, pure, and right and without error amen.

 

[CS1]

Non of them all you mentioned taught it ( even Paul not) and expierienced it. ( except Paul)
I suppose you dont see the different between the gift of speaking in tongues ( which not everybody got- according Paul) and the speaking in tongues as evidence for beeing baptised with the Holy Spirit. Which is taught and expierienced in Topeka first.
And I asked for a proof for the last.

FYI the gifts of the Holy Spirit guy, which tongues is one of them. Nine to be exact.

three vocal ones: tongues. interpretation of tongues, and prophesy

three knowledge gifts: word of wisdom. word of knowledge, and discerning of spirits

Three power gifts: Working of miracles, Gift of faith, and healing

 

[PaulChristensen]

Non of them all you mentioned taught it ( even Paul not) and expierienced it. ( except Paul)
I suppose you dont see the different between the gift of speaking in tongues ( which not everybody got- according Paul) and the speaking in tongues as evidence for beeing baptised with the Holy Spirit. Which is taught and expierienced in Topeka first.
And I asked for a proof for the last.

What I see in 1 Corinthians 14 is that Paul said, "I thank god I speak in tongues more than you all, yet in the church, I would rather speak five words in language that is understood (my paraphrase). And he also says: "I would that you all spoke in tongues."

Now, if Paul spoke in tongues more than them all in church services, wouldn't he be contradicting his own teaching by saying that people shouldn't speak willy nilly in tongues without interpretation? And it is clear that he makes a distinction between speaking understandable language in church and speaking in tongues elsewhere ("yet in the church"). He would also be contradicting himself by saying on one hand that he supports everyone speaking in tongues, and on the other hand don't speak in tongues in church unless it is two or three along with interpretation.

All I have done here is employ the same comprehension that a 10 year old would. It stands to reason that Paul spoke most of his tongues language outside of church fellowship meetings, and when he was in the meeting he spoke in the language of the people present (Aramaic, Hebrew, or Greek, because he would have known all three languages, but his tongues would not have included these languages because in verse 2 he says that when he or anyone else spoke in tongues they spoke directly to God because no one would understand the language.)

 

[Aidan1]

Ok Guy, You are ignorant. Please prove 1cor 13:8-10 where the gifts of the Holy Spirit have stopped as this is a thread on
Cessationism vs. continuationism

You won't see scripture, you won't see church history you don't know what the difference between normative and descriptive. You are stuck on Topeka yet you have not asked how did those in TOPEKA come up with the idea of initial EVIDENCE?

You do not have to agree but you have not refuted the teaching. You ask who else taught on the gifts of tongues I provided a great amount for you. BUT you come back with one-liners as I knew you would you did not even read what I posted.

Read my post again. If you cant see the different I cant help you.

 

[PaulChristensen]

Correction: It is not written when Paul received the gift of speaking in tounges.

According to what Paul said in Galatians 3 about receiving the Spirit when they were converted to Christ, and what he said to the Ephesian disciples, "Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?" it is clearly implied that Paul believed that the baptism with the Spirit happened at conversion to Christ. Therefore, if he believed that a person received the Holy Spirit when they believed on Christ, it is obvious that the very same happened to him the moment he believed on Christ as Ananias laid hands on him.

 

[CS1]

Read my post again. If you cant see the different I cant help you.

Correction: "It is not written when Paul received the gift of speaking in tounges. "


You said that. that statement is not true Paul said he spoke in tongues in 1cor chapter 14: 18.

So it is written when Paul received the gift of Tongues because HEsaid HE spoke in tongues. From what we see in Acts he received the Empowering of the Holy Spirit when Ananias laid his hands on him and he was 'Baptized in the Holy Spirt it already was established as a normative that happened when you were baptized at Acts recorded it. See how that works all Bible no church doctrine bible 101 baby.

 

[CS1]

According to what Paul said in Galatians 3 about receiving the Spirit when they were converted to Christ, and what he said to the Ephesian disciples, "Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?" it is clearly implied that Paul believed that the baptism with the Spirit happened at conversion to Christ. Therefore, if he believed that a person received the Holy Spirit when they believed on Christ, it is obvious that the very same happened to him the moment he believed on Christ as Ananias laid hands on him.

all Bible right there 101

 

[PaulChristensen]

So, I take it God's Word is NOT "perfect," and Is NOT "magnified" ABOVE all HIS Name, and,
Therefore, I Cannot "trust" IT, even though YOU say "God Honors His word, no matter what
Imperfect "version" it is found in, Correct? Only the originals, now gone, WERE PERFECT,
Correct?

so much for "my faith"...

Oh, come on!
You didn't read my post.
I said that the Word of God as inspired in the original Hebrew and Greek Scriptures is perfect, because it was directly inspired by the Holy Spirit to those who wrote it all down.

But the written copies we have are not perfect. But they can be totally relied on to give us knowledge of God's plans and purposes and the true Gospel of Christ so that we can put our faith in them for the assurance of our salvation.

But to say that these written copies are the "perfect" as incorrectly stated in 1 Corinthians 13:8, is saying that our present translations are perfect, but which one? It shows that it is nonsense.

 

[Aidan1]

What I see in 1 Corinthians 14 is that Paul said, "I thank god I speak in tongues more than you all, yet in the church, I would rather speak five words in language that is understood (my paraphrase). And he also says: "I would that you all spoke in tongues."

Now, if Paul spoke in tongues more than them all in church services, wouldn't he be contradicting his own teaching by saying that people shouldn't speak willy nilly in tongues without interpretation? And it is clear that he makes a distinction between speaking understandable language in church and speaking in tongues elsewhere ("yet in the church"). He would also be contradicting himself by saying on one hand that he supports everyone speaking in tongues, and on the other hand don't speak in tongues in church unless it is two or three along with interpretation.

All I have done here is employ the same comprehension that a 10 year old would. It stands to reason that Paul spoke most of his tongues language outside of church fellowship meetings, and when he was in the meeting he spoke in the language of the people present (Aramaic, Hebrew, or Greek, because he would have known all three languages, but his tongues would not have included these languages because in verse 2 he says that when he or anyone else spoke in tongues they spoke directly to God because no one would understand the language.)

Well, i believe that was Paul said is true, as the whole word of God. Paul was talking in tongues.
But he never taught that speaking in tongues is the evidence that someone is baptised with the Holy Spirit!
All teaching what we have today about this matter has his roots in topeka/azusastreet movement which spread it in all world.
Along with the charismatic movements which arose in the last 100 years. Today it is difficult which teaching came from where.
But it was not before Topeka.

 

[CS1]

Well, i believe that was Paul said is true, as the whole word of God. Paul was talking in tongues.
But he never taught that speaking in tongues is the evidence that someone is baptised with the Holy Spirit!
All teaching what we have today about this matter has his roots in topeka/azusastreet movement which spread it in all world.
Along with the charismatic movements which arose in the last 100 years. Today it is difficult which teaching came from where.
But it was not before Topeka.

he did not have to. everyone he laid hands on received the Holy Spirit and spoke in tongues or Prophesied. The idea He did not teach it is mote. Paul did not teach discipleship classes in Powerpoint either. Paul did not teach on transgenderism or the stock market.

We are to look at the word of God as saved believers apply it to our lives that bring glory to God.

We look at the word of God and ask what is the authorial intent?

Who was the writer speaking to?
what day was it in when he spoke it or wrote it?
how did they apply it then?
How do we apply it today?

Very simple. Now in context to the initial evidence teaching the empowerment of the Holy Spirit and the Gifts of the Holy Spirit have brought great glory and praise to God out of the pentacostel revivals Mission alliance came forth and many were sent to other parts of the globe to preach the gospel. Latin America, Africa, Asia, and many other locations like the middle east. We have seen millions come to the lord. The 16 foundational truths found in the word of God have moved the hand of God and many were and are being saved.


God has blessed what we do because it is faith in His word. You just have " debate" and you are not winning those anymore either.

an't winning would and an't winning debates.

 

[PaulChristensen]

he did not have to. everyone he laid hands on received the Holy Spirit and spoke in tongues or Prophesied. The idea He did not teach it is mote. Paul did not teach discipleship classes in Powerpoint either. Paul did not teach on transgenderism or the stock market.

We are to look at the word of God as saved believers apply it to our lives that bring glory to God.

We look at the word of God and ask what is the authorial intent?

Who was the writer speaking to?
what day was it in when he spoke it or wrote it?
how did they apply it then?
How do we apply it today?

Very simple. Now in context to the initial evidence teaching the empowerment of the Holy Spirit and the Gifts of the Holy Spirit have brought great glory and praise to God out of the pentacostel revivals Mission alliance came forth and many were sent to other parts of the globe to preach the gospel. Latin America, Africa, Asia, and many other locations like the middle east. We have seen millions come to the lord. The 16 foundational truths found in the word of God have moved the hand of God and many were and are being saved.


God has blessed what we do because it is faith in His word. You just have " debate" and you are not winning those anymore either.

an't winning would and an't winning debates.

You and I and others have given Biblically correct answers to cessationism all the way through this thread. I have come to the conclusion that those who don't agree with the answers we've provided won't believe it, rather than they cannot believe the answers we are giving. What this means is that they are so adamant in their cessationist belief that they refuse to accept our answers even though we have proved beyond all shadow of doubt that our answers are totally consistent with Scripture. What we have to hope is that those who are uncertain and are on the borderline and wanting reliable Biblical answers will see the truth of what we are trying to convey here.

I know that I am not going to be able to convince the cessationists, because the ones I know are so steeped in the brainwashing they have received, that it is almost impossible to get them to see any different.

But the real "jury" are those sincerely seeking Biblical assurance that what they are seeking for is true and real. We hope that they are not robbed of God's blessing by the non-Scriptural notions of the cessationists.

 

[Aidan1]

he did not have to. everyone he laid hands on received the Holy Spirit and spoke in tongues or Prophesied. The idea He did not teach it is mote. Paul did not teach discipleship classes in Powerpoint either. Paul did not teach on transgenderism or the stock market.

We are to look at the word of God as saved believers apply it to our lives that bring glory to God.

We look at the word of God and ask what is the authorial intent?

Who was the writer speaking to?
what day was it in when he spoke it or wrote it?
how did they apply it then?
How do we apply it today?

Very simple. Now in context to the initial evidence teaching the empowerment of the Holy Spirit and the Gifts of the Holy Spirit have brought great glory and praise to God out of the pentacostel revivals Mission alliance came forth and many were sent to other parts of the globe to preach the gospel. Latin America, Africa, Asia, and many other locations like the middle east. We have seen millions come to the lord. The 16 foundational truths found in the word of God have moved the hand of God and many were and are being saved.


God has blessed what we do because it is faith in His word. You just have " debate" and you are not winning those anymore either.

an't winning would and an't winning debates.

At the end we will see. What was for the Lords Glory and what not.
In the bible you can find also the princip, that it is not the majority which justify something right.
Yes, our Debating is nothing in compare that people turn to Christ.
Thats why I will finish here.

 

[Aidan1]

You and I and others have given Biblically correct answers to cessationism all the way through this thread. I have come to the conclusion that those who don't agree with the answers we've provided won't believe it, rather than they cannot believe the answers we are giving. What this means is that they are so adamant in their cessationist belief that they refuse to accept our answers even though we have proved beyond all shadow of doubt that our answers are totally consistent with Scripture. What we have to hope is that those who are uncertain and are on the borderline and wanting reliable Biblical answers will see the truth of what we are trying to convey here.

I know that I am not going to be able to convince the cessationists, because the ones I know are so steeped in the brainwashing they have received, that it is almost impossible to get them to see any different.

But the real "jury" are those sincerely seeking Biblical assurance that what they are seeking for is true and real. We hope that they are not robbed of God's blessing by the non-Scriptural notions of the cessationists.

Please be not so merciless with us. We are not the enemy. I suppose we met in heaven. And then all differences are gone. Praise the Lord

 

[Evmur]

Yes, 40 Years Ago, my experience, as a New-Born babe In CHRIST, had me "watching TV,"
{hungry for ALL The Word Of God!}, and your teacher TOLD me I could "simply put my
hand ON THE TV, And That God would grant me the gift" of speaking in tongues!

Result? Nothing...I believe I will stay With God's Word Of Truth, Rightly Divided,
{Which Has SOLVED ALL the Confusion about water, signs, prophecy, etc. for me},
Which "HE Led me to, 10 Years Later!

NO rubbishing, demonizing, or lambasting ANYONE, simply: "Fulfilling ALL The Law, In

ONE Word: LOVE my neighbor as myself!"

Be Blessed!

But it is not scriptural to lay your hands upon the tv to receive the Holy Spirit ... You say you were hungry for God's word, I am sure you read your bible much.

The answer to such shoddy shabby preaching is not to abandon the seeking for what is true and what is real. Don't throw out the bible because some stupid preacher tells you to do something and it didn't work.

 

[PaulChristensen]

At the end we will see. What was for the Lords Glory and what not.
In the bible you can find also the princip, that it is not the majority which justify something right.
Yes, our Debating is nothing in compare that people turn to Christ.
Thats why I will finish here.

The strength of these forums is that readers get to see many sides of the same argument instead of just one. The "jury" is the general reader who gets to decide which side of the argument is appropriate for them.

I'm never offended by people disagreeing with me. I find the debates stimulating and fun. In all the years I have been involved in forums, I have had to concede only once when someone was successful in proving me wrong.