Are WOMEN Pastors Biblical??

[mustaphadrink]

The posts I responded to were the ones that state women must not speak or be in any kind of leadership, this is clearly unpauline

The thread is about women pastors so addressing that is the best thing to do.

 

[Truth7t7]

The thread is about women pastors so addressing that is the best thing to do.

Scripture below shows a woman is commanded to be obedient and silent in the Church, let alone being a pastor/bishop of it

Gods Words Are Very Clear On A Womans Role In The Church, And They Aren't Changing Anytime Soon.

Silence, Subjection, Obedience

(It Is A Shame For Women To Speak In The Church)

1 Timothy 2:11-14KJV
11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

1 Corinthians 14:33-35KJV
33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.
34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law.
35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.

 

[Evmur]

"UNPAULINE"??????

Am I the only one reading what the Bible actually does say Evmur.

Paul said in 1 Timothy 3:1-2......
"This is a true saying, If a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work. 2A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach".

1 Timothy 2:12.......
"I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet."

1 Tim. 2:11
" A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. "

1 Corinthians 14:34
"Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law."

Are YOU sure you know what is Pauline and what is not??????

You have to balance it with Paul's assertion that women may preach and pray ...

... what more do any of us want?

 

[Evmur]

Evmur......You have NO idea why I did not include Abraham! NONE! Stop trying to be a guru because it is embarrassing for you.

Evmur, you seem to have completley misunderstood what I have tried to say. It seems to me that your Pentecostal faith has clouded your understanding.

You see my friend, righteousness means counted to us, imputed to us; pick your word — through faith, which comes from God as a gift in the moment that you receive it by faith. That would be because Jesus has done that righteousness. There was NONE in us so what we have if through Christ.

Romans 3:10....
"As it is written: "There is no one righteous, not even one"!

Christ has performed that righteousness, and his is counted as ours. We call that imputed righteousness. The other use of the word would be righteousness that we ourselves are acting out or living out in our daily lives.

The Bible teaches us that there is "Perfect and Progressive " righteousness. The first is an imputed gift counted as ours. That gift is received through faith. The second kind is an imparted gift — not an imputed gift but an imparted gift.

The first kind of righteousness is perfect. The second kind of righteousness is progressive.

We will someday be perfected — at the end of our lives, when God completes our process of becoming practically, personally, perfectly righteous. But right now, in this life, this righteousness is not yet perfect. And the relationship between these two kinds of righteousness is that we can’t make any progress in practical, lived-out righteousness until we are accepted by God, forgiven for our sins, and declared to be perfectly righteous with the imputed righteousness of God in Christ.

go teach your grandmother to suck eggs

 

[Evmur]

So Pauls injuction to appoint Elders in EVERY church is irrelevant? I always thought that EVERY meant EVERY, not just some or none.

And the subject of the thread is women pastors. Not women prophesying or exercising the gifts of the Spirit.

And you seem to be saying because a woman leads a church today, it authenticates women pastors. So let me tell you something and I won't charge you for it. No where in scripture does it authenticate pastors of any kind as leaders of the church. Its leadership was in the hands of the Apostles, Prophets and Elders.

But as you claim, God had authenticated non scriptual pastors to lead the church because they lead the church.

Does that mean God approves of molesting children because some churches molest children?

There is no injunction in scripture that women may not be pastors. What does it matters what they are called, so long as they are doing the work God called them to.

You have to balance scripture, we see that Paul greeted women who were leaders in houses [which were the churches] he called them co-workers with him in the gospel commanding the men to give them all assistance.

Paul teaches that in the Body, the church there is neither male or female.

 

[Aidan1]

There is no injunction in scripture that women may not be pastors. What does it matters what they are called, so long as they are doing the work God called them to.

You have to balance scripture, we see that Paul greeted women who were leaders in houses [which were the churches] he called them co-workers with him in the gospel commanding the men to give them all assistance.

Paul teaches that in the Body, the church there is neither male or female.

Well, for me it seems you puzzle your own theologie. Do so, but it is not what God teaches in his word. But be sure, you are not alone with that. The mayority would agree with you.

 

[pablocito]

Maybe you did not read what the Bible actually says. Let me post it for you as in reality, in the 1st century, IT WAS NOT required of women to teach men.

1 Timothy 3:1-2.........
"This is a true saying, If a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work. 2A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach".

1 Timothy 2:12..........
"I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet."

GOD said that.....not me!

This is just a miscommunication as I agree with all that you have said. All of that happened in the 1st century.

My contention is that it does not apply today. Reason - the entity known as the external organizational church, similar to the synagogue (that of the Jews) do not exist today, in God's sight. They have all be overrun by Satan.

Now the true body or church of Christ, the gates of hell will not prevail against it. This church is scattered all over the world in every nook and cranny. Our bodies which are the temple of the living God, make up the complete body of Christ (The Church) of which Christ is the head. When Christ returns He will pull his people from all nations of the world, even those in the Amazon jungle or the Congo basin or in the depths of the Islamic countries of Saudi Arabia or the communist country of China, where Christianity is banned unless controlled by the state.

This is only my view and each person has to come to their own conclusions by the grace that God has afforded them and so there really is no need to debate as God ultimately is in control and will bring everything to a perfect ending. God cannot be thwarted, man cannot thwart God, also the Devil cannot thwart God as God is sovereign.

 

[pablocito]

Scripture below shows a woman is commanded to be obedient and silent in the Church, let alone being a pastor/bishop of it

Gods Words Are Very Clear On A Womans Role In The Church, And They Aren't Changing Anytime Soon.

Silence, Subjection, Obedience

(It Is A Shame For Women To Speak In The Church)

1 Timothy 2:11-14KJV
11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

1 Corinthians 14:33-35KJV
33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.
34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law.
35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.

From the beginning God made man to be over a woman. It says in genesis that a husband will rule over his wife.

I believe that this applies only as far as the institution of God is here on this earth. That is, where the people of God congregate. A man is to his wife as Christ is to the church.

Of course all these commandments do not affect the worldly organizations as they are not of God. We as Christians are in the world but not of the world.

Now the real problem today is whether there are any earthy institutions of God in the world today. The only institution of God on this earth is our bodies which Paul states has become the house or temple of the living God.
We actually walk not by some earthly institution but by the Spirit of God that dwells within us. 1st John 2 vs 27 gives us a clue as to our disposition.

Verse 27 says - But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

The real truth is that we are in the days similar to Noah, where every imagination of the thoughts of man's heart is evil continually. (Genesis 6 vs 5)

John in 1st John 5 vs 19 says the same thing. - And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness.

Paul in Corinthians tells us to come out of the world; and John tells us to keep ourselves from idols.

Truly the problem here is not about women preaching but about our personal salvation as we are being deceived on every side of us. Many of us are going to fall away.

The first warning out of Jesus's mouth in Matthew 24 (the Olivet discourse) was - Take heed that no man deceive you. These were his first words before explaining the signs of the end times.

 

[Major]

This is just a miscommunication as I agree with all that you have said. All of that happened in the 1st century.

My contention is that it does not apply today. Reason - the entity known as the external organizational church, similar to the synagogue (that of the Jews) do not exist today, in God's sight. They have all be overrun by Satan.

Now the true body or church of Christ, the gates of hell will not prevail against it. This church is scattered all over the world in every nook and cranny. Our bodies which are the temple of the living God, make up the complete body of Christ (The Church) of which Christ is the head. When Christ returns He will pull his people from all nations of the world, even those in the Amazon jungle or the Congo basin or in the depths of the Islamic countries of Saudi Arabia or the communist country of China, where Christianity is banned unless controlled by the state.

This is only my view and each person has to come to their own conclusions by the grace that God has afforded them and so there really is no need to debate as God ultimately is in control and will bring everything to a perfect ending. God cannot be thwarted, man cannot thwart God, also the Devil cannot thwart God as God is sovereign.

I do understand what you are saying. However.....when we start saying that THIS particular Scripture or THAT particular Scripture does not apply TODAY......aren't we then REWRITING the Word of God to fit our life style today?????

Isn't that exactly why killing babies is now legal????
Isn't that exactly why homosexual marriages are now legal???
Isn't that exactly why prostitutions is not going to be prosecutor in New York???

To change to Word of God to fit our society today is a prescription for disaster and in fact we are in the middle of seeing that happen TODAY!

 

[cv5]

Scripture below shows a woman is commanded to be obedient and silent in the Church, let alone being a pastor/bishop of it

Gods Words Are Very Clear On A Womans Role In The Church, And They Aren't Changing Anytime Soon.

Silence, Subjection, Obedience

(It Is A Shame For Women To Speak In The Church)

1 Timothy 2:11-14KJV
11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

1 Corinthians 14:33-35KJV
33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.
34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law.
35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.

The fact is that back then women in the Church WERE pursuing and acceding to positions of authority over men. Paul rectified and reordered the situation, thereby setting the standard for the Church going forward. Not complicated.

 

[cv5]

“Incredible”? I’ll take that as a compliment.

Something for you to meditate on Dino. Trivializing Pauls directives is folly.....

1 Cor 14:37
If anyone thinks himself to be a prophet or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things which I write to you are the commandments of the Lord.

 

[Dino246]

Something for you to meditate on Dino. Trivializing Pauls directives is folly.....

1 Cor 14:37
If anyone thinks himself to be a prophet or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things which I write to you are the commandments of the Lord.

So don’t do it.

 

[101G]

these scriptures have been revealed in their true meaning. and all these false notions that woman cannot pastor have been reproved by the Word of God itself, the bible.

#1. 1 Corinthians 14:34 "Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law."

A. this is not speaking about all women, only to "WIVES", and

B. the apostle was not even speaking to any Women/wife at all, but to the husbands of "WIVES".

just as in 1 Timothy 2:12 "But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence."
this was a home setting, because of what he, the apostle was saying to the husbands in 1 Corinthians 14:34. should have been done at "HOME", husband TEACH YOUR WIVES FIRST... AT HOME, BEFORE YOU BOTH COME TO CHURCH.
again "Women" here is a wife, for 1 Timothy 2:15 clearly states this.

and one can see that it is a home setting between HUSBAND and WIFE, 1 Timothy 2:13 "For Adam was first formed, then Eve."
1 Timothy 2:14 "And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression."
now the term "woman" here in verse 14 .... is it a WIFE? yes, for Eve was Adam "WIFE", just as in 1 Corinthians 14:34, it is "WIVES" there also.

there is no scriptual foundation to support any lie that Women cannot preach, teach, and PASTOR.

for if these scriptures would have used the term, G2338, thelus, which is a FEMALE, that would have included all and every woman, married or not. but since that word was not used, the bible Interpret itself. so where one see the term "Woman" in 1 Corinthians 14:34, and 1 Timothy 2:12, it is "Wife". so any argument aganist "WOMEN" preaching, teaching, and Pastoring, in whole, is anti BIBLE. just let the bible interpret itself. look up word definition and see is this is what is actually said.

PICJAG,
101G.

 

[cv5]

So don’t do it.

As I have said now several times now Dino.......folly. I would take that Scripture very seriously.

 

[Dino246]

As I have said now several times now Dino.......folly. I would take that Scripture very seriously.

As you should.

 

[Major]

these scriptures have been revealed in their true meaning. and all these false notions that woman cannot pastor have been reproved by the Word of God itself, the bible.

#1. 1 Corinthians 14:34 "Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law."

A. this is not speaking about all women, only to "WIVES", and

B. the apostle was not even speaking to any Women/wife at all, but to the husbands of "WIVES".

just as in 1 Timothy 2:12 "But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence."
this was a home setting, because of what he, the apostle was saying to the husbands in 1 Corinthians 14:34. should have been done at "HOME", husband TEACH YOUR WIVES FIRST... AT HOME, BEFORE YOU BOTH COME TO CHURCH.
again "Women" here is a wife, for 1 Timothy 2:15 clearly states this.

and one can see that it is a home setting between HUSBAND and WIFE, 1 Timothy 2:13 "For Adam was first formed, then Eve."
1 Timothy 2:14 "And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression."
now the term "woman" here in verse 14 .... is it a WIFE? yes, for Eve was Adam "WIFE", just as in 1 Corinthians 14:34, it is "WIVES" there also.

there is no scriptual foundation to support any lie that Women cannot preach, teach, and PASTOR.

for if these scriptures would have used the term, G2338, thelus, which is a FEMALE, that would have included all and every woman, married or not. but since that word was not used, the bible Interpret itself. so where one see the term "Woman" in 1 Corinthians 14:34, and 1 Timothy 2:12, it is "Wife". so any argument aganist "WOMEN" preaching, teaching, and Pastoring, in whole, is anti BIBLE. just let the bible interpret itself. look up word definition and see is this is what is actually said.

PICJAG,
101G.

The above post is totally fictitious!!! The phenomenon, which is historically scarce throughout the entirety of Church history, is gaining a lot of traction. I’m going to argue that the primary reason that women are drawn to preaching is not actually a love for God’s word, but a hatred of it.

The Bible is abundantly clear that Pastoring a New Test. church is a responsibility reserved for men. As seen here on this site, the problem is that some PEOPLE DO NOT LIKE NOR ACCEPT WHAT GOD ACTUALLY SAID!!!

I must tell you that I did not start this thread as a whim or after thought. I have put a lot of time, observation and study into this happening.

As such I can tell all of you who do not like what I have said woman not being Biblically approved to be Pastors, Unsurprisingly, women who usurp the authority of male leadership — by preaching or teaching in the Church — are false teachers. Aside from the fact that they teach falsely on women preachers, many are wrapped up in prosperity theology, like Joyce Meyer and Christine Caine, claim extra-biblical revelations, like Beth Moore who said God gave her a vision of Him uniting Catholics and Protestants, romanticize their relationship with God, like Ann Voskamp who says she flew to Paris to “make love to God,” or promote various other heresies such as LGBT inclusiveness, like Jen Hatmaker.

DO NOT take my word on these things. It is easy to prove me wrong....do the work and see for yourself!

So then the question must then be.......why do women do this?

I think that the growing number of male leaders in the Church, and at home have become too afraid of women to speak up.

I also think that it is NOW instead of 50 years because these women hate their God-given role as submissive servants in the Church.
They have bought into the Gloria Steinman philosophy of "Being in Charge". The new feminist movement has mainstreamed this notion of being in charge and Pastoring the church NO MATTER WHAT THE WORD OF GOD SAYS!!

 

[Dino246]

But invites your view then not a wide range of speculations, while the written word is clear and not to misundetstood.
It is not only because of the verses which clear says why woman should not be teach and lead man. Beginning with the creation order first man then woman. Then genesis 3 where the woman is judged from God because of her trusting the snake more then God. But you know the verses.
Read post 2.036 from Major.
What you think why God gave this through his Holy Spirit, if it has according you an opposit meaning?

I understand your position, and I disagree with it, because there is no reason why the prior creation of Adam should confer authority of every man over every woman. Most people, yourself included, engage in circular reasoning, using this verse to explain itself. There are very limited cases where circular reasoning is legitimate, and this is definitely not one of them.

Adam was judged for sin; if you want to be consistent, you need to exclude all men from leadership because Adam sinned.

I see no reason to read any post from Major, because he refuses to read mine.

 

[pablocito]

You are going a little bit over

I do understand what you are saying. However.....when we start saying that THIS particular Scripture or THAT particular Scripture does not apply TODAY......aren't we then REWRITING the Word of God to fit our life style today?????

Isn't that exactly why killing babies is now legal????
Isn't that exactly why homosexual marriages are now legal???
Isn't that exactly why prostitutions is not going to be prosecutor in New York???

To change to Word of God to fit our society today is a prescription for disaster and in fact we are in the middle of seeing that happen TODAY!

 

[Nehemiah6]

So then the question must then be.......why do women do this? I think that the growing number of male leaders in the Church, and at home have become too afraid of women to speak up.

You've hit the nail on the head. Who would have imagined that Christian men would be gutless? But there it is. And that is exactly why women have been ordained CONTRARY TO THE WORD OF GOD. It is rebellion, pure and simple, and that is what it should be called.

It is interesting to note that when Miriam and Aaron tried to question and oppose the authority of Moses, it was Miriam who was punished with leprosy (Num 12:10). God had some very severe words for Miriam.

 

[pablocito]

I do not want to debate, as I told you previously. Thousands of passages in the bible are debated constantly because people have their own method of interpretation.
I will only just address what you said in your last post to me then I will decline to debate any further.

I am not rewriting the bible.
For example I am sure you would not want to go into the field to catch an unblemished lamb so that you can make a sacrifice for your sins. Yes this is in the bible. But I am sure that you would not want to do that based on the context that those actions were performed.

Killing babies are not performed by the Christian world but by the world which God has told us to come out of.
In the days of the Old testament heathen nations sacrificed people but that was not under the jurisdiction of God's people.
There was a specific law in the O.T. by God that prohibited His people Israel from sacrificing their children similar to what the heathen nations were doing.
But their is no O.T. passages where God punished the heathen nations for killing their children offered to their idol Gods. So we have to put things in proper context here.

Sodom and Gomorrah was a city of homosexuals. There was only one righteous man, Lot who did not take part in their practices. You have to understand the wicked will be wicked and the righteous will be righteous. This the entire theme of the entire bible. Even revelations 22, the last book of the bible sums it up like this -
Revelation 22 vs 11
He that is unjust, let him be unjust still:
and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still:
and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still:
and he that is holy, let him be holy still.
To be honest, I think you are still in the world, when God has already told you to come out of it.
The bible states that even though we are in the world we are not of the world.
Let the world be the world and God's people be God's people.

One of the problems that I noticed with Seventh day Adventists was that they were concerned about social conditions in the world. The is not the business of Christians. God did not put us here to make the world a better place. No.

That is why we are going to be taken out of here for a much better place. That is why the bible tells us we are only sojourners here waiting to go home.

Jesus's last message in Revelation was to watch for his coming and be prepared for him. He did not tell us to fix this place that is ruled by the Devil.